La Luz Del Mundo: A Church Founded on Lies
I find it painful and rather bothersome how masses can be brainwashed with lies and deceit, how some twisted individuals take advantage of people’s genuine faith in God by making them believe they are messiahs. I grow weary of false prophets and religious establishments founded on lies. You, as the reader, tell me: is it right for Christianity to be spread if the church’s foundation is based on lies? Personally, I think Christianity can spread with integrity, slowly but surely, without false prophets starting churches at every corner.
There is this particular church in mind called La Luz del Mundo, which translates directly to English as The Light of the World. It is a Christian denomination church headquartered in my father’s hometown of Guadalajara, Jalisco in Mexico. The church claims to be the largest non-Catholic Church in all of Latin America, and its main church, in Guadalajara, can accommodate approximately 12,000 worshipers. The Light of the World has about 5 million members in about 40 countries. All this information is all good and all, the problem lies in its foundation.
My father and his family have long tidings with this church, as most of his siblings and his parents (my grandparents) belonged or continue to belong to this church. He knows the inner workings of the church from close range and saw things that made him refuse to be a member of it. Needless to say, my father is the most ethical man I know, and if he saw wrong, then there was something wrong. He was enveloped in this church practically since birth. Since he is not a member of the church, his own siblings turned their back on him, preferring their religious brothers and sisters than their own blood. They never call to even say hello. My grandparents on my Dad’s side were never like that. Heck, my grandfather was eventually disillusioned and refused the position of pastor in his later years. An uncle, one that is not a member of this church, recently told me this about The Light of the World : “Those people are disrespectful and hypocrites”.
The church was started by a man named Aaron Joaquin Gonzales who (like Paul who encountered Jesus on the road to Damascus and was instructed to go as an apostle to the gentiles) was also called on as an apostle in 1926 in Monterrey, Mexico. This made him apostle #14, after Paul and the twelve original apostles. Aaron Joaquin Gonzales thus began to preach this new church and began to have many followers by making them believe he was “appointed” by God himself to “restore the church of Jesus Christ”. Like many churches, this church is no different in that it has evolved into a money-hungry establishment. Aaron Joaquin was revered as a deity, God on earth mentality by his followers. He passed away on June 9, 1964, and as it is common, his son, Samuel Joaquin Flores, took control of the church afterwards. It has been this man who has expanded The Light of the World to its current state and continues to serve as the director of the church. Here is the catch: He is also an apostle, on the same terms as Paul, Thomas, Peter, and the others! He is apostle #15, after his father of course, and according to his 5 million followers. I have never heard of an apostle passing down the powers of apostleship to his son but it happened here.
The only good thing I see about this church is that it introduces people to Christ and the Bible. That is the only thing. People are bred into the church and arranged marriages are not uncommon. Every year, on August 14, wherever people of the congregation may be, they must travel to Guadalajara to pay homage to the apostle of Jesus Christ. It used to be that people would kiss his hand and place their tithe in a large jar next to him. Nowadays, it is no longer required to kiss his hand. Samuel Joaquin is, of course, filthy rich. Brainwashing ignorant masses can make you so, tax free. It will be very interesting to see if they were the 14th and 15th apostles in reality. 
1,496 Responses to “La Luz Del Mundo: A Church Founded on Lies”
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July 29th, 2010 at 5:22 pm
I agree with you Colin. I also gained knowledge when I gained God. thank you for sharing.
July 29th, 2010 at 5:13 pm
Thank you Sum.
Unfortunately I was one of those kids who did juuust enough to get by in school, which I regret now because my grades were not good enough to get into any universities.
I’ve been working since I got out of high school, but I’ve been attending city college for a few years, working to transfer after I get an A.A. I’m studying broadcasting and Radio and TV production. But what I’d really like to do is become a preacher and use the background I’m getting in broadcasting to bring the Bible into the whole world.
But I must say I learn more on my own than I ever have in school. LOL, I’m just one of those people who gets interested in something and wants to find out Everything I possibly can about the subject. I’ve actually learned a lot from other people on this site, or through wikipedia or wherever there’s information available, I try to find it.
In the words of Johnny 5 “I love input” LOL
But, without getting carried away – I thank God for that because my curiosity and inquisitive nature are gifts from Him.
He made me a curious little creature who wants to find out everything I can. Praise God!
“If any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to him. But when he asks, he must believe and not doubt, because he who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind.”(James 1:5-6)
July 29th, 2010 at 4:37 pm
Colin
You have a lot of knowledge in a lot of things, are you attending a certain college or studying for anything?
July 29th, 2010 at 10:07 am
I would just like to point out some of the circular reasoning in LLDM’s doctrine.
LLDM attempts to prop themselves up by downgrading the Catholic church. They make the true statements that “the Bible does not mention a pope” “The Bible makes no mention of praying to the virgin Mary”, etc.
But, when faced with the true statements that “The Bible does not mention Aaron or Samuel Joaquin”, “the Bible does not make any mention of a ’spiritual Israel’”, “the Bible says nothing about august 14th”, etc.
LLDM answers with something along these lines:
“REVELATIONS 10- VERSE 4
GOD SEALED THIS OTHERWISE EVERYBODY WOULD KNOW. WHAT, WHEN, WHERE, WHY.”
Couldn’t the Catholic church just as easily say that God sealed the doctrines of the pope, the virgin mary, purgatory, and baptizing babies???
Do you see the circular reasoning? It cannot be ignored.
Couldn’t anyone just as easily make anything up and say “well, God sealed it.”?
Anyone could do that! Look – Aaron was wrong, God sent me to restore a new Israel, but it was sealed so it wouldn’t be known until now, look:
“He replied, “Go your way, Daniel, because the words are closed up and sealed until the time of the end.”(Daniel 12:9)
See how easy it is to twist Scripture to promote something absurd? If all you saw were verse 9 of Daniel 12, my claim could be considered valid. But if you read all of chapter 12 of Daniel, it’s obvious that’s not what he’s talking about.
That is why it is so important to test EVERYONE against the whole Bible, including Samuel Joaquin Flores. Don’t forget that even satan quoted Scripture when testing out Lord Jesus Christ (Matthew 4).
That is why context is so important.
“Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.”(1 John 4:1)
July 28th, 2010 at 3:26 pm
Abi
if the apostle raped you like he did with others would you believe that it is a blessing because he is the sent apostle?
We had some one here on this sight that told us his wife was raped by him and he told her that it was a gift from God. would you still have so much faith in him knowing that? And you you tell your self that it is just a roomer how about if it was you and every one did not believe you how would you feel?
July 28th, 2010 at 2:30 pm
Abi, read the whole passage in it’s context:
“”Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
“Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye. “Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces.”(Matthew 7:1-6)
You are the one who mentioned the many supposed miracles of SJF, you should not be upset when someone asks you for the reason you believe those stories:
“But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,”(1 Peter 3:15)
July 28th, 2010 at 2:16 pm
you wanna to hear the miracles he has done.. you wanna hear more about him,
if i tell you, its like giving a precious pearls to the pigs……….
July 28th, 2010 at 1:46 pm
But Abi, you are the one that brought up miracles.
And I quote: “WHEN he was born he was born dead… his fahter prayed and he came back alive
that tells us more that just not to mention all the miracles he has done, please dont be absurd
with this stories…”
Not to mention all the miracles he has done? Well, since you seem to have first-hand knowledge of those alleged miracles, why don’t you tell us? Back up your claims. Or did you just write without foundation, with lies, like LLDM does?
July 28th, 2010 at 1:05 pm
Abi
your faith in the apostle seems so strong tell me what goes threw your head when I tell you everything we know about the apostle.
1. My mother in law is paying rent on one of the buildings for LLDM, and she is broke with no husband and three kids is that ok?
3. my mother in law buys food with money that should have been for her rent to sell out side of the church of LLDM, to give the money to LLDM.
2. A paster from San Bernardino was telling me really bad words when all I asked was why do you guys fallow an apostle? I was very nice to him but he was not to me.
3. Do you believe that Jesus can take our sins or the apostle? Did you know that the whole reason Jesus died for us is to forgive us for our sins? Did you know that the apostle says that it is not that easy, is so everyone can worship him instead of Jesus?
there is more that I would like to share with you but I will leave it there for know. I am telling you true stories that I have seen with my own eyes so you can not tell me that I did not see these things.
Tell me why this apostle would say that he is an angel and we have to believe in his stories when Jesus told us everything we need to know? Why is he trying to change what God has already told us? is God lying to us? should we go ahead and have faith in a man that changed gods rules?
July 28th, 2010 at 10:55 am
Abi, no that’s not it. Even if he does show miracles, it makes no difference if he continues preaching a false Gospel. The miracles mean nothing if the message doesn’t match the Bible (IN CONTEXT).
The point is not to be right or to prove you wrong. Because of our wonderful God – you have the free will to believe whatever you choose to believe.
Whether you want to believe the Bible, and look to what the Bible itself actually says as your source for truth;
or whether you want to believe Samuel and look to SJF/LLDM’s interpretations of what the Bible says as your source for truth
- the decision is entirely yours. Praise God, He doesn’t force anyone.
You were the one who first mentioned “all the miracles he has performed”, so we were merely asking you to describe these alleged miracles.
“He answered, “A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a miraculous sign! But none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.”(Matthew 12:39-40)
The Lord Jesus Christ already performed the biggest miracle in recorded History – He died on a cross. He was buried and He stayed in the tomb 3 days and 3 nights. And just like Jonah came out of the belly of the fish, the Lord Jesus Christ came out of the tomb alive – flesh and bone. That is what the Bible says must be believed in order to receive (not achieve but receive) Salvation.
To the point of inquiring about Samuel’s miracles, it’s much different because none of his supposed miracles are recorded in the Bible.
But if he truly is an apostle, then he would be performing miracles that would be undeniable. This is one of the test of Apostles that the Lord Jesus commends believers for:
“I know your deeds, your hard work and your perseverance. I know that you cannot tolerate wicked men, that you have tested those who claim to be apostles but are not, and have found them false.”(Revelation 2:2)
Thanks to God, we all have the free will to choose whether we are just going to accept it when someone says they are an apostle, or whether we are going to obey the Lord Jesus and test those who claim to be apostles.
I chose to test Samuel’s claim, and as a result, I found that the Bible gives several requirements for an authentic Apostle of Jesus Christ.
This is how Samuel fairs against the Biblical test:
Qualification #1 – The Witness of an Apostle.
Let me start by saying that the Bible makes it very clear that Apostles of Jesus Christ had to bear eye witness to the fact that Jesus had risen from the dead. To do this, they had to have seen him after he was resurrected. As Peter wrote “We did not follow cleverly invented stories when we told you about the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty.” (2 Peter 1:16).
The story of Aaron’s “calling” – eyewitness account, or cleverly invented story?
Christ told His apostles that they were to be His witnesses to testify as to what they had seen with their own eyes – “He told them, “This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. You are witnesses of these things.” (Luke 24:46-48).
When presenting candidates to replace Judas Iscariot, the one chosen had to be an eyewitness – “Therefore it is necessary to choose one of the men who have been with us the whole time the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, beginning from John’s baptism to the time when Jesus was taken up from us. For one of these must become a witness with us of his resurrection.” (Acts 1:21-22).
Jesus told the apostles “But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.” (Acts 1:8). And so they did “With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and much grace was upon them all.” (Acts 4:33).
Paul is unique in that he is the only Biblical apostle to have been witness to the fact that Jesus had risen and was alive after He had already ascended into Heaven.
“As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?”
“Who are you, Lord?” Saul asked.
“I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,” he replied. “Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.”
The men traveling with Saul stood there speechless; they heard the sound but did not see anyone. Saul got up from the ground, but when he opened his eyes he could see nothing. So they led him by the hand into Damascus.(Acts 9:3-8).
It states here that the men with Paul heard the sound, but did not see anyone. When later recounting this story, Paul says that the men with him saw the light, but did not understand the voice of the one who was speaking to him (Acts 22:6-9). Is Paul contradicting himself here? Absolutely not.
Paul saw someone in the brilliant flash of light and heard an audible voice speaking to him. The one he saw was Jesus, and He spoke with Jesus, and was given specific instructions from Him.
If you examine the words used in these chapters closely, it’s clear that the men with Paul did see a flash of light, but did not see anyone. And they did hear a sound, but could not understand as they would an audible voice.
Paul was blinded, and the men with him were not effected at all – although no one present would be able to deny that something supernatural had occured. I’ve always taken Paul’s subsequent blindness after this event to be both literal and metaphorical. Paul had seen Jesus after He had already ascended into Heaven, that is why he was blinded literally, because no one (with the possible exceptions of Moses, Enoch and a few others) had seen the full glory of God while in their earthly bodies. Now, metaphorically I take the fact that Paul came away blinded to signify that anyone who does not see the value in accepting Jesus as the Lord and the only path to Salvation (as was the case with Saul of Tarsis), is blind spiritually. It’s also very significant to note that the men who were with Paul could see and hear that something was happening, even though they did not understand what it was.
Most recounts of the story of Eusebio, AKA Aaron’s calling, state that he was in bed with his wife when he had his “vision” and heard the sound of God’s voice. However, most would agree that his wife did not see anything nor hear anything herself, but the “apostle” was able to convince her that it had indeed happened. Seem fishy?
But, moving on…Paul, in defending his apostleship, appealed to the fact that He had seen Jesus with his own eyes – “Am I not free? Am I not an apostle? Have I not seen Jesus our Lord? Are you not the result of my work in the Lord? Even though I may not be an apostle to others, surely I am to you! For you are the seal of my apostleship in the Lord.” (1 Corinthians 9:1-2).
To test anyone who claims to be an apostle today, you don’t have to look any further than the gospel they teach, and whether it matches exactly to the gospel preached by the Biblical Apostles. In that same 1st epistle to the Church in Corinth, Paul lays out the true gospel which was preached by all the Biblical Apostles:
“Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve. After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.
For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me was not without effect. No, I worked harder than all of them—yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me. Whether, then, it was I or they, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed.” (1 Corinthians 15:1-11)
By this gospel we are saved. This has been the true gospel of Jesus Christ for almost 2,000 years. If we do not hold firmly to this gospel, our belief is in vain.
Now, since I am discussing the witness of an apostle, I would like to point out verse 8 – “and LAST of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born”. Paul was the last person whom Jesus appeared to and designated as an apostle. This translation is from the NIV, but in the NKJV, this verse reads as: “Then last of all He was seen by me also, as by one born out of due time.”
Again, last of all, he was seen by Paul, and Paul’s apostleship was “born out of due time.” If Paul’s apostleship was “born out of due time” in first century AD, then 1926 I dare say was almost 2 milleniums too late.
I do not question the sovereignty of God, and if God wishes to raise up new apostles in this day and age, then of course he can. But, he would not alter the gospel, nor would he leave us in the dark without a way to test the claims of men who claim to be apostles
“I know your deeds, your hard work and your perseverance. I know that you cannot tolerate wicked men, that you have tested those who claim to be apostles but are not, and have found them false.”(Revelation 2:2).
Samuel’s current score – 0/1
Qualification #2 – signs.
The eyewitness testimony of the New Testament Apostles was confirmed through the Holy Spirit in the form of signs, wonders, and miracles.
“The things that mark an apostle—signs, wonders and miracles—were done among you with great perseverance.” (2 Corinthians 12:12).
“I will not venture to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me in leading the Gentiles to obey God by what I have said and done— by the power of signs and miracles, through the power of the Spirit. So from Jerusalem all the way around to Illyricum, I have fully proclaimed the gospel of Christ.” (Romans 15:18-19)
“how shall we escape if we ignore such a great salvation? This salvation, which was first announced by the Lord, was confirmed to us by those who heard him. God also testified to it by signs, wonders and various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will.” (Hebrews 2:3-4).
Jesus gave the apostles the ability to heal the sick, raise the dead, drive out demons and perform other miraculous signs. “He called his twelve disciples to him and gave them authority to drive out evil spirits and to heal every disease and sickness.” (Matthew 10:1).
Paul refers to his ability to perform signs, wonders, and miracles as the things that mark an apostle (2 Cor. 12:12). But it was not only Paul, but also the 12 Apostles who by the grace of God had this ability –
“Then the disciples went out and preached everywhere, and the Lord worked with them and confirmed his word by the signs that accompanied it.” (Mark 16:20)
“Everyone was filled with awe, and many wonders and miraculous signs were done by the apostles.” (Acts 2:43)
“The apostles performed many miraculous signs and wonders among the people. And all the believers used to meet together in Solomon’s Colonnade.” (Acts 5:12).
“One day Peter and John were going up to the temple at the time of prayer—at three in the afternoon. Now a man crippled from birth was being carried to the temple gate called Beautiful, where he was put every day to beg from those going into the temple courts. When he saw Peter and John about to enter, he asked them for money. Peter looked straight at him, as did John. Then Peter said, “Look at us!” So the man gave them his attention, expecting to get something from them.
Then Peter said, “Silver or gold I do not have, but what I have I give you. In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, walk.” Taking him by the right hand, he helped him up, and instantly the man’s feet and ankles became strong. He jumped to his feet and began to walk. Then he went with them into the temple courts, walking and jumping, and praising God. When all the people saw him walking and praising God, they recognized him as the same man who used to sit begging at the temple gate called Beautiful, and they were filled with wonder and amazement at what had happened to him.
While the beggar held on to Peter and John, all the people were astonished and came running to them in the place called Solomon’s Colonnade. When Peter saw this, he said to them: “Men of Israel, why does this surprise you? Why do you stare at us as if by our own power or godliness we had made this man walk? The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus. You handed him over to be killed, and you disowned him before Pilate, though he had decided to let him go. You disowned the Holy and Righteous One and asked that a murderer be released to you. You killed the author of life, but God raised him from the dead. We are witnesses of this. By faith in the name of Jesus, this man whom you see and know was made strong. It is Jesus’ name and the faith that comes through him that has given this complete healing to him, as you can all see.” (Acts 3:1-16)
I have brought this point up in discussions with several members and pastors of LLDM, and the majority say they have heard of Samuel Joaquin working miracles (although they refuse to give details of such tales), but have not seen it with their own eyes. But the miracle working power of the Biblical Apostles was indeniable, and done out in the open for all to see. They had nothing to hide. “But since they could see the man who had been healed standing there with them, there was nothing they could say. So they ordered them to withdraw from the Sanhedrin and then conferred together. “What are we going to do with these men?” they asked. “Everybody living in Jerusalem knows they have done an outstanding miracle, and we cannot deny it.” (Acts 4:14-16).
The Bible also adamantly warns that in latter times, false (counterfeit) miracles will be performed by satan in an effort to deceive those who reject the truth of the Bible.
“The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.” (2 Thessalonians 2:9-10).
Now, I do believe the old saying that miracles happen every day. They most certainly do – in answer to our prayers, but no longer by the hands of miracle workers (in a spiritual sense: there is healing, but no healers).
The testimony of the Biblical Apostles (New Testament) was confirmed in signs, which shows that it is inspired of God. It sufficiently upholds the message that Jesus is God’s Messiah, He is the Christ, the Son of the Living God, and that this Jesus, God has raised up from the dead.
“God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all witnesses of the fact.” (Acts 2:32)
“When I came to you, brothers, I did not come with eloquence or superior wisdom as I proclaimed to you the testimony about God. For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. I came to you in weakness and fear, and with much trembling. My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit’s power, so that your faith might not rest on men’s wisdom, but on God’s power.” (1 Corinthians 2:1-5)
“I want you to know, brothers, that the gospel I preached is not something that man made up. I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.” (Galatians 1:11-12).
No additional apostles are needed to testify that Jesus was crucified, buried, and raised from the dead on the 3rd day according to the Scriptures. Instead of “modern apostles” we are to rely on the Holy Bible, which is God’s living word (Hebrews 4:12).
You want me to believe in Samuel’s apostleship? I will need to see him defy the laws of physics. He will need to do something that human beings just simply cannot do. Samuel has shown no evidence of any supernatural powers from God
Samuel’s current score – 0/2
Qualification #3 – The Foundational role of Apostles:
Let me start by pointing out that The Apostle Paul, before he was called to be an apostle, had only one occupation and it was as a tentmaker. Therefore, it can be concluded that he understood something about construction, and that is why he used some metaphors comparing the church to a building.
I have worked in my younger days as a carpenter’s assistant and I learned a lot about construction. A “chief cornerstone” is laid along with the foundation, and it’s function is to align the the foundation properly, ensuring the foundation will be solid and allowing for construction on top of it.
Although it is called a chief cornerstone, it technically is still a part of the foundation, and in fact is the MOST important part of the foundation.
In understanding this, it’s quite clear that Paul’s writings never contradict themselves. Now, hundreds of years before Jesus came to the earth, the Sovereign Lord spoke through the prophet Isaiah, foretelling the laying down of the foundation of the emerging church:
“So this is what the Sovereign LORD says:
“See, I lay a stone in Zion,
a tested stone,
a precious cornerstone for a sure foundation;
the one who trusts will never be dismayed.” (Isaiah 28:16).
All the Old Testament Prophets, and Isaiah especially spoke of the redemption of mankind coming through a Son who was to be born to us, and the New Testament makes it clear that the Son is Jesus – who is the Christ.
The prophets are a part of the foundation as well because they foretold Jesus’ coming, and yes even the apostles, centuries before they arrived. Now, looking at this passage from Ephesians:
“Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” (that done in the body by the hands of men)— remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.
For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace, and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.
Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God’s people and members of God’s household, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.” (Ephesians 2:11-22)
There are two majorly important things that stand out in this passage. The first – verse 14, which makes it clear that the barrier that divided Jews and Gentiles was broken down by Jesus Christ, and both were united in Him.
La Luz Del Mundo claims that only members of their church will be certain to receive Salvation from God as they are following their “apostle” Samuel Joaquin, and those who are not members (who they refer to as Gentiles), well that will just be up to God’s Judgement.
This is heretical and divisive and contradicts this passage, which speaks about unity (for all people) through Jesus Christ – NOT through any apostle. The other is of course Ephesians 2:20, which states that God’s household is built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Jesus Christ as the chief cornerstone.
As I have also learned working construction, a foundation is laid down one time in the beginning, and it is never done again.
The apostles served as the foundation of the emerging church by teaching about Christ Jesus, and by making the New Testament available in written form. In addition to the gospels of Jesus Christ, the New Testament includes the epistles (letters of instruction), for how to carry on in the faith after the apostles had passed.
Surely, no one would want to take anything Samuel Joaquin writes and add it to the New Testament. And well, if you would, then I would advise that you please read Revelation 22:18-19.
To summarize, we know that the foundation of our faith, which was laid in the first century AD, was a sure foundation (Isaiah 28:16), because Jesus Christ was the chief cornerstone. We know that the apostles comprised a part of this foundation, along with the prophets. We know that once a foundation has been laid, it can never be laid again.
As I have asked before, if we are to believe that Samuel Joaquin is a living apostle today, then we should conclude that he is laying a foundation, so should we expect another Lamb of God to ensure it is a solid foundation? Absolutely not!
1 Corinthians sums it up very well: “Brothers, I could not address you as spiritual but as worldly—mere infants in Christ. I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready. You are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not worldly? Are you not acting like mere men? For when one says, “I follow Paul,” and another, “I follow Apollos,” are you not mere men?
What, after all, is Apollos? And what is Paul? Only servants, through whom you came to believe—as the Lord has assigned to each his task. I planted the seed, Apollos watered it, but God made it grow. So neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God, who makes things grow. The man who plants and the man who waters have one purpose, and each will be rewarded according to his own labor. For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building.
By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as an expert builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should be careful how he builds. For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.” (1 Corinthians 3:1-11).
Verse 7 – ONLY God is anything. And verse 11 – NO other foundation can be laid, then the one which already has been.
LLDM teaches people that they must “earn” their salvation through good works.
Yet the Bible does not say that Salvation can be earned – it is a free gift from God, which once received by faith will produce good works.
Paul writes that we are saved by GRACE, we are not saved by works, so therefore no one can boast. It would be impossible for anyone to save ourselves by doing good works, because all human beings are sinful creatures. Even on your best day, you still messed up. We have righteousness through our faith in Jesus Christ alone. “He came to pay a debt He did not owe, because we owed a debt we could not pay.”
Samuel’s current score – 0/3
Qualification #4 – the election of an apostle – that is they had to be chosen specifically by Christ.
We all know the original 12 were hand-picked by Jesus Christ Himself. “When morning came, he called his disciples to him and chose twelve of them, whom he also designated apostles: Simon (whom he named Peter), his brother Andrew, James, John, Philip, Bartholomew, Matthew, Thomas, James son of Alphaeus, Simon who was called the Zealot, Judas son of James, and Judas Iscariot, who became a traitor. (Luke 6:13-16).
“With the reward he got for his wickedness, Judas bought a field; there he fell headlong, his body burst open and all his intestines spilled out. (Acts 1:18).
The remaining 11 apostles were left to choose who would take Judas’ place among the apostles. But the thing is, Jesus made that decision too.
“Then they prayed, “Lord, you know everyone’s heart. Show us which of these two you have chosen to take over this apostolic ministry, which Judas left to go where he belongs.” Then they cast lots, and the lot fell to Matthias; so he was added to the eleven apostles.” (Acts 1:24-26).
I have asked pastors of La Luz Del Mundo about this, and their reasoning was that since Jesus was not there in person to choose Matthias, it was not a direct decision from Jesus. However, the fact that they “Cast Lots” indicates that it was not a personal decision by any of the men, but was directly from God the Son. The main obvious reason for casting lots was the impartiality of a certain decision. No one could argue that the decision was the result of politics, nepotism, favoritism, etc. It basically was the same as the casting of dice of today.
Next, Jesus Christ personally appeared to Saul of Tarsis to make him his “chosen vessel” to deliver the message of the gospel to the Gentiles –
“As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?”
“Who are you, Lord?” Saul asked.
“I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,” he replied. “Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.”
The men traveling with Saul stood there speechless; they heard the sound but did not see anyone. Saul got up from the ground, but when he opened his eyes he could see nothing. So they led him by the hand into Damascus. For three days he was blind, and did not eat or drink anything.
In Damascus there was a disciple named Ananias. The Lord called to him in a vision, “Ananias!”
“Yes, Lord,” he answered.
The Lord told him, “Go to the house of Judas on Straight Street and ask for a man from Tarsus named Saul, for he is praying. In a vision he has seen a man named Ananias come and place his hands on him to restore his sight.”
“Lord,” Ananias answered, “I have heard many reports about this man and all the harm he has done to your saints in Jerusalem. And he has come here with authority from the chief priests to arrest all who call on your name.”
But the Lord said to Ananias, “Go! This man is my chosen instrument to carry my name before the Gentiles and their kings and before the people of Israel. I will show him how much he must suffer for my name.” (Acts 9:3-16)
Paul even refers to himself as – “Paul, an apostle—sent not from men nor by man, but by Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead” (Galatians 1:1)
Jesus appeared to Paul for the purpose of personally designating him as an apostle –
“‘Now get up and stand on your feet. I have appeared to you to appoint you as a servant and as a witness of what you have seen of me and what I will show you” (Acts 26:16).
In hearing the story of Aaron’s calling (depending on who’s version you hear), most people do not say he saw Jesus Christ appear to him personally. One pastor even tried to reason with me that “hearing His voice is the same as seeing him.” To which I would reply “Did hearing Him cause him to go blind for 3 days like Paul?”
Apostles of Jesus Christ were thoroughly familiar with Him, they were with him throughout His personal ministry on earth (Acts 1:21-22).
They heard Him teach, they saw His works, and they touched Him. And they declared everything in the New Testament to us so that we may have life and fellowship with our God –
“That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ.” (1 John 1:1-3)
Jesus affirmed these things when promising the gift of the Holy Spirit – “And you also must testify, for you have been with me from the beginning.” (John 15:27)
The Holy Spirit empowered the Biblical apostles with full rememberance of everything Jesus taught, and directed them in what to say and write – (John 14:26, Matthew 10:19-20, 1 Corinthians 2:6-13, Ephesians 3:3-7).
As a result of this, we have complete confidence in the apostles’ testimonies concerning the life and teachings of Jesus. By their message, we are brought to faith only in Christ and eternal life in Him. –
“Jesus did many other miraculous signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book. But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.” (John 20:30-31),
“We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ. We write this to make our joy complete.” (1 John 1:3-4).
Samuel’s current score – 0/4
Qualification #5 – The test of the Gospel.
If SJF were a true apostle, he would be preaching the exact same gospel preached by the Biblical Apostles. For it is written –
“But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!”(Galatians 1:8-9)
There are several warnings in the Bible about accepting a different gospel from the one in the Bible. This is all important. Let’s look at the gospel preached by the Biblical apostles. If it is added to, subtracted from, or changed in any way, it is not the gospel of the Bible.
“But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming:”(Romans 10:8)
OK, follow closely, because nowhere is there a clearer statement of what the Biblical Apostles proclaimed then what Paul writes here:
“That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. As the Scripture says, “Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame.” For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”(Romans 10:9-13)
There it is: “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
What’s LLDM’s version? It would be something more like this: “If you confess with your mouth that you believe Samuel Joaquin was elected as apostle, and believe in your heart that Samuel was sent as the only authoratative representative of Christ on earth, you will be saved.”
Pretty distorted huh?
Let’s look at another passage where Paul makes it clear:
“Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve. After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, and LAST OF ALL he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.
For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me was not without effect. No, I worked harder than all of them—yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me. Whether, then, it was I or they, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed.”(1 Corinthians 15:1-11)
Again, let’s compare this to the gospel of Samuel Joaquin, what has LLDM added to this? It would be like this: “After LAST OF ALL appearing to Paul, Christ waited another 1,893 years, then he appeared again to Aaron, and 34 years after that he appeared also to Samuel and gave them divine revelations to pass on to us. These revelations include new regulations for how people should be baptized, dress, live, and believe. You must believe in the election of these “modern day apostles” if you wish to have any hope of salvation through Jesus Christ.”
Once again, pretty distorted huh?
It is clearly not identical to the Gospel preached by the Biblical Apostles. In preaching this, the leaders of LLDM, and “apostle” Samuel especially, are bringing condemnation on themselves. And that isn’t me who says this, it’s the Word of God:
“But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!”(Galatians 1:8-9)
That’s the most important test of an apostle. And in failing this, Samuel now completely fails the test of apostles based on how the Bible defines Apostles. Let’s look:
Eyewitness to Christ 0/1; Elected by Christ, 0/2; Signs, wonders and miracles, 0/3; Foundational role in Christianity 0/4; preaching of the true gospel, 0/5.
About Samuel, I confidently say this, but once again it is not me who says it, but the Word of God:
“For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.”(2 Corinthians 11:13-15)
LLDM Members will advise:
“Forget what other people say just listen to your heart.”
This is horrible advice. Do you not know that the most wicked thing is the heart of a man? Because it so easily lies and is so quick to believe lies that sound like the truth.
(Jeremiah 17:9) – The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?
(Ecclesiastes 9:3) – This is the evil in everything that happens under the sun: The same destiny overtakes all. The hearts of men, moreover, are full of evil and there is madness in their hearts while they live, and afterward they join the dead.
(Matthew 15:19) – For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander.
The point that I am making here is that no human can rely only on their heart to decide rather something or someone is the truth. This is why the Apostle Paul praised the Bereans.
(Acts 17:11) – Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.
And the Apostle John commands us to test very spirit against the Scriptures to test whether the spirit is from God or from the Antichrist.
(1 John 4:1) – Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
But once again, Abi, God does not force anyone, He gives us free will (what a wonderful God!)
It is your choice whether you want to just accept what LLDM teaches as the truth; or whether you want to ask the Holy Spirit to teach you, study the Bible yourself and test the things LLDM teaches against the Bible.
Those who have tested LLDM’s teachings against the totality of the Bible in it’s true context would reject SJF and LLDM as apostates.
The choice is yours, Abi.
“”Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts
as you did in the rebellion.”(Psalm 95; Hebrews 3:15)
July 28th, 2010 at 10:14 am
so basically you want to see miracles, signals so may be you believe in someone sent by God.
you are asking for signals wanting to know am i wrong?
(Mathew 16:4) A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed.
this is it you wanna see? nothing will be shown to you.
July 27th, 2010 at 11:12 pm
“Do really wanna see miracles from him???
so you can believe??? answer yes or no”
Well, the answer is yes but I wouldn’t necessarily believe he’s an apostle, it depends on what I would see.
If he does a card trick and calls it a miracle I would not believe him.
If he heals a cripple with his touch or raises someone from the dead, then he sure did perform a miracle.
But I’d still be cautious, and perhaps extra cautious then because the Bible warns about the coming of the Antichrist to be accompanied with “counterfeit miracles” designed to deceive.
“The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.”(2 Thessalonians 2:9-10)
And the Bible warns that there is no other Gospel that needs to be believed except that of the death, burial and Resurrection of Jesus Christ.
So, let’s say SJF is an angel and he does perform some miracles like heal a cancer patient with his touch.
It still would not make any difference if he preaches a different Gospel, the Bible warns about that too:
“But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!”(Galatians 1:8-9)
So, even if Samuel is healing all the sick people in the world – if he is still saying that I need to believe in him instead of believe in the death, burial and Resurrection of Jesus Christ then his miracles make no difference. Paul says “let him be eternally condemned!”
As far as “would I need to see a miracle to believe in the death, burial and Resurrection of Jesus Christ?” Nope.
The Lord Jesus already answered that question when he said
“He answered, “A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a miraculous sign! But none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.”(Matthew 12:39-40)
He already performed the biggest miracle in recorded History – He died on a cross. He was buried and He stayed in the tomb 3 days and 3 nights. And just like Jonah came out of the belly of the fish, the Lord Jesus Christ came out of the tomb alive – flesh and bone.
And He is alive today at the right hand of God asking you to trust him, Abi.
July 27th, 2010 at 10:56 pm
mathew 10:40 “He who receives you, recieves me and he who recieves me reicieve the one who sent me.”
Beloved members of LLDM, i say this with the sincere love of my Master and Lord Jesus Christ – Samuel Joaquin Flores was not sent by Christ.
These words of the Lord Jesus were written down by the Apostle Matthew over 20 years after the Lord had Resurrected and Ascended into Heaven. Matthew walked with Jesus, and as Matthew neared death, the Holy Spirit empowered him to remember everything Jesus said and did and write them down.
SJF did not walk with Jesus, and did not hear Jesus speak. It is not necessary to receive SJF. You are not receiving Christ by receiving Samuel because Samuel was not sent by Christ.
The 12 Apostles were sent forth to spread the message, and later Paul, and also Paul’s physician Dr. Luke, a young missionary named John Mark, and 2 of the Lord’s blood brothers – James and Jude were also sent forth to spread the message of the Gospel.
The 27 letters they recorded were supernaturally preserved by the Holy Spirit to this day and along with the Old Testament Scriptures are still spreading the Gospel message to the whole world.
If Salvation on earth disappeared at the death of John the Apostle in around 100 AD, then how was Eusebio Joaquin Gonzales saved in 1926?
LLDM does not teach members about the true impact of the Bible throughout history:
The Apostles and Paul and Silas and Barnabas and Timothy and Mark and Luke and Apollos, and Demas, and others went throughout the known world at the time preaching the death and Resurrection of Jesus Christ. The only Apostle to die peacefully was the Apostle John, after writing the final books of the Bible.
They all taught that Jesus had risen from the grave in a Resurrected body, that He walked with them, ate with them, and let them touch Him to prove He was risen from the grave, and that He ascended to heaven and sat down at the right hand of the Father to make intercession for sinners on earth.
And they all were executed because they refused to stop teaching the death, burial and Resurrection of Jesus Christ.
The Holy Spirit enabled them to complete the written revelation of God to men before they were executed. Their deaths were as follows:
Simon surnamed Peter died 33-34 years after the death of Christ. According to Smith’s Bible Dictionary there is “satisfactory evidence that he and Paul were the founders of the church at Rome, and died in that city. The time and manner of the apostle’s martyrdom are less certain. According to the early writers, he died at or about the same time with Paul, and in the Neronian persecution, A.D. 67,68. All agree that he was crucified. Origen says that Peter felt himself to be unworthy to be put to death in the same manner as his Master, and was therefore, at his own request, crucified with his head downward.”
James the son of Zebedee: He was put to death by Herod Agrippa I shortly before the day of the Passover, in the year 44 or about 11 years after the death of Christ. From Acts 12: 1-2.
John: No death date given by early writers. Death date is by conjecture only and is variously assigned as being between 96 AD to 100 AD
Andrew: He is reported to have been crucified at Patrae in Achaia.
Philip: According to tradition he preached in Phrygia, and died at Hierapolis.
Bartholomew: According to tradition, he was a missionary to Asia, he witnessed in present-day Turkey and was martyred for his preaching in Armenia, when he was flayed to death by a whip.
Matthew: He lived many years as an apostle, since he was the author of the Gospel of Matthew which was written at least twenty years after the death of Christ. There is reason to believe that he stayed for fifteen years at Jerusalem, after which he went as missionary to the Persians, Parthians and Medes. Legen has it that he died a martyr in Ethiopia
Thomas: The earlier traditions, as believed in the fourth century, say he preached in Parthia or Persia, and was finally buried at Edessa. The later traditions carry him farther east. His martyrdom whether in Persia or India, is said to have been by a lance, and is commemorated by the Latin Church on December 21 the Greek Church on October 6, and by the Indians on July 1.
James Alpheus : We know he lived at least five years after the death of Christ because of mentions in the Bible. According to tradition, James son of Alpheus was thrown down from the temple by the scribes and Pharisees; he was then stoned, and his brains dashed out with a fuller’s club.
Simon the Canaanite – Tradition says he was crucified in Ptolemais.
Jude (Thaddeus) – according to tradition Jude taught in Armenia, Syria and Persia where he was martyred. Tradition tells us he was buried in Kara Kalisa in what is now Iran.
James, the brother of Jesus (not officially an apostle) – thrown over a hundred feet down from the southeast pinnacle of the Temple when he refused to deny his faith in Christ. When they discovered that he survived the fall, his enemies beat him to death with a club. This was the same pinnacle where Satan had taken Jesus during the temptation.
Paul the Apostle – tortured and then beheaded by the evil Emperor Nero at Rome in A.D. 67.
Jude, the brother of Jesus (also not officially an apostle) – Was crucified by the Magi of Persia, according to tradition.
These men were willing to be killed rather than stop teaching what they taught about Jesus. This was a very foundational piece which caused the body of Christ to continue to grow uninterrupted until Christ’s return to the earth.
Even before their deaths, the New Testament letters were circulating to all the churches throughout Judea, Samaria, Asia Minor, Asia, and Rome; and believers were copying them down in their original languages for their personal use.
This led to there being over 5,700 manuscripts of the New Testament by the time the Apostle John died.
All this letter translating and copying had to be done in secret. Even church services had to be done secretively in order to hide from the Roman Government, which saw Christianity and Christians alike as a threat.
The first persecution of the Church took place in the year 67 AD, under Nero, the sixth emperor of Rome. Nero reigned for five years, with tolerable credit to himself, but then he gave way to the greatest temper, and to the most atrocious barbaric ideas of any Roman Emperor to that time.
Among other diabolical whims, he ordered that the city of Rome should be set on fire. The order was executed by his officers, guards, and servants. While the imperial city was in flames, he went up to the tower of Macaenas, played his harp, sung the song of the burning of Troy, and openly declared that ‘he wished the ruin of all things before his death.’
Besides the noble pile, called the Circus, many other palaces and houses were consumed; several thousands perished in the flames, were smothered in the smoke, or buried beneath the ruins.
This dreadful arson continued for 9 days; when Nero, finding that his conduct was greatly opposed, determined to lay the whole blame upon the Christians, at once to excuse himself, and have an opportunity of setting his sights on new cruelties.
This was the occasion of the first persecution; and the barbarity exercised on the Christians was such as even excited the commiseration of the Romans themselves.
Nero even refined upon cruelty, and contrived all manner of punishments for the Christians that the most infernal imagination could design. In particular, he had some sewed up in skins of wild beasts, and then worried by dogs until they expired; and others dressed in shirts made stiff with wax, fixed to axletrees, and set on fire in his gardens, in order to illuminate them. This persecution was general throughout the whole Roman Empire; but it rather increased than diminished the spirit of Christianity. In the course of it, Paul and Peter were martyred.
To their names may be added, Erastus, chamberlain of Corinth; Aristarchus, the Macedonian, and Trophimus, an Ephesian, converted by Paul, and a fellow-laborer with him; Joseph, commonly called Barsabas, and Ananias, bishop of Damascus; each of the 70 The Lord Jesus had sent forth in Luke 10.
But as mentioned, this terrible persecution actually increased the spirit of us crazy Christians when crazy Nero had intended it to break our spirit and obey him. Believers are more willing to die for our faith in Jesus Christ because He Himself promised us “Whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.”
Nero died in 68 AD, and there was relative peace as the church continued to grow.
Then, in 81 AD, Emperor Domitian came to power as Caesar of Rome.
The emperor Domitian was naturally inclined to cruelty. He first slew his brother, and then raised the second persecution against the Christians.
In his rage he put to death some of the Roman senators, some because of malice; and others just to confiscate their estates. He then commanded all the lineage of David be put to death.
Among the numerous martyrs that suffered during this persecution were Simeon, bishop of Jerusalem, who was crucified; and the Apostle John, who was boiled in oil, and afterward banished to Patmos when he had miraculously survived. It was while he was in banishment on Patmos that John was given the Revelation of Jesus Christ and wrote the last and final books of the Bible.
Other martyrs under Domitian included: Flavia, the daughter of a Roman senator, who was banished like John to Pontus;
and a new law was made, “That no Christian, once brought before the tribunal, should be exempted from punishment without renouncing his religion.”
A variety of fabricated tales were, during this reign, composed in order to injure the Christians. Such was the infatuation of the pagans, that, if famine, pestilence, or earthquakes afflicted any of the Roman provinces, it was laid upon the Christians. These persecutions among the Christians increased the number of informers and many, for the sake of gain, swore away the lives of the innocent.
Another hardship was, that, when any Christians were brought before the magistrates, a test oath was proposed, when, if they refused to take it, death was pronounced against them; and if they confessed themselves Christians, the sentence was the same.
The following were the most remarkable among the numerous martyrs who suffered during this persecution:
Dionysius, the Areopagite, was an Athenian by birth, and educated in all the useful and ornamental literature of Greece. He then travelled to Egypt to study astronomy, and made very particular observations on the great and supernatural eclipse, which happened at the time of our Savior’s crucifixion.
The sanctity of his conversation and the purity of his manners recommended him so strongly to the Christians in general, that he was appointed bishop of Athens.
Nicodemus, a benevolent Christian of some distinction, suffered at Rome during the rage of Domitian’s persecution.
Protasius and Gervasius were martyred at Milan.
Timothy was the celebrated disciple of Paul, and bishop of Ephesus, where he zealously governed the Church until A.D. 97. At this period, as the pagans were about to celebrate a feast called Catagogion, Timothy, meeting the procession, severely reproved them for their ridiculous idolatry, which exasperated the people so much that they attacked him with their clubs, and beat him in so dreadful a manner that he died of the bruises two days later.
Strange as it may seem, while there were some falling away from the church to avoid persecution during this time, the Bible continued to circulate and Christianity continued to spread and grow.
I could hardly give an exhaustive list of all those who have been martyred, but there were 8 more severe periods of persecution of Christians by Rome’s emperors.
The Third Persecution, Under Trajan, A.D. 108
The Fourth Persecution, Under Marcus Aurelius Antoninus, A.D. 162
The Fifth Persecution, Commencing with Severus, A.D. 192
The Sixth Persecution, Under Maximus, A.D. 235
The Seventh Persecution, Under Decius, A.D. 249
The Eighth Persecution, Under Valerian, A.D. 257
The Ninth Persecution Under Aurelian, A.D. 274
The Tenth Persecution, Under Diocletian, A.D. 303
All of them brutally killed the Christian faithful and attempted to destroy the Bible.
But Christians suffered similar persecutions throughout areas that were not controlled by Rome also:
There were persecutions of the Christians in Persia, modern day Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, and Syria.
But the church continued to grow and the Holy Spirit continued to protect the Bible from being destroyed.
Persecutions continued through the Fourth, Fifth, Sixth, Seventh, Eighth, Ninth, Tenth, and Eleventh Centuries, and the church also continued to grow.
The ones persecuting the Christians changed as the balance of powers continued to shift from Rome, the Parthians, and the Roman Catholic Pope.
After years of trying to control the Bible’s distribution, only hold mass in Greek, and make it so that anyone who did not learn Greek could not read the Bible, the Papacy in Rome began openly executing anyone who did not comply with their rules.
William Tyndale was strangled and burned at the stake for translating the Bible into the modern English language of his time and publishing it.
There were the persecutions of the Waldenses in France, the Albigenses, The Bartholomew Massacre at Paris,
The Bible and the church played a major part in the French Revolution, in 1789.
Galileo, Martin Luther, John Calvin, the list is endless of faithful men of God throughout history who were changed by the Holy Bible, led in revivals; and suffered persecution for it.
When Stalin took power in Russia, he ordered that all Bibles be burned, and there were many faithful martyrs in the Soviet Union. There were also a great many underground, secret Christians risking death in the USSR for continuing to have, read, and believe Bibles.
Hitler, Mao Tse Tung, Lenin; tyrants throughout history have tried to destroy Christianity and destroy the Bible, but have been unsuccessful.
There are places in the world even today (China for example) where Christians have to be underground, or secretive about their worship because their government would kill them for carrying even just a few pages of Scripture. The Holy Spirit guides and protects my brothers in Christ who are suffering for their faith in China right now: what does Samuel Joaquin Flores do for those in China?
He is not necessary to those in China, the US, Mexico or anywhere
Because through all the terrible persecution the church has suffered since it’s very inception – the church has continued to grow and spread throughout the world because the Lord Jesus Christ is still alive at the very right hand of the Father in Heaven to make intercession to God for those of us here on earth. And the Holy Spirit is still in the world moving in the hearts of men and women who repent and turn to Christ.
July 27th, 2010 at 10:35 pm
i have one question for you.. Do really wanna see miracles from him???
so you can believe??? answer yes or no
July 27th, 2010 at 9:20 pm
Another LLDM breakdown. Resorting to “you’re wrong” and “you’re misinformed” and so on. I’m still waiting on the miracles Samuel gas done, Abi. Though, I know all too well you can never describe them because he has never done any. Who’s misinformed then?
July 27th, 2010 at 8:32 pm
If you have never paid homage to sjf, a mortal human, then would you kindly explain all the lldm hymns which glorify Samuel as:
King(Christ’s rightful title)
The holy one of Israel (old testament term for God)
And Christ himself
???
FYI, I have spoken with several members and pastors of lldm and asked similar questions. None have been able to answer. That is why I recognize the fallacy you are using as typical to lldm. All pastors I have spoken with at lldm(over 6) have used the same fallacy – they attempt to turn the tables and try to insult and belittle the person into quiet compliance.
The point is they try to make the person raising these issues spend their time defending themselves, so they can avoid trying to refute the facts.
The truth is they cannot be refuted.
July 27th, 2010 at 8:16 pm
one other thing… out of all the years that weve been to guadalajara weve never paid homage to Samuel Joaquin never…. onether lie…. sorry but whoever you are, you are really missed informed. we can gladly speak in person if youd like.
July 27th, 2010 at 8:12 pm
Unfortunately, abi you seem to be falling back on typical lldm tactics instead of refuting the facts.
This is what is known as an “ad hominem” fallacy-when you cannot defeat a persons argument using logic and reason, so instead you just attack the person.
Let us stick to the facts, abi,
Fact – the Bible says a person must have been an eyewitness to Jesus’ Resurrection to be an apostle (acts 1:21-26).
Fact – the Bible says that Jesus appeared Last of All to Paul (1 corinthians 15:8).
Fact – the bible warns about those who say they are apostles but are not (2 Corinthians 11:1-15, revelation 2:2).
Fact – sjf says he is an apostle, therefore we must test his claim according to the Bible (revelation 2:2, 1 John 4:1-6).
So help the test abi, and prove me wrong: when did sjf see the Lord Jesus Christ with his own eyes and what other witnesses can confirm his claim?
How is that even possible without contradicting Pauls own words in 1 corinthians 15:8??
July 27th, 2010 at 7:52 pm
whatever you said online based on what you have heard, you have no proof your little facts.
we move by faith live by faith and God always says whos right or wrong….. get your story right!!!
July 27th, 2010 at 7:43 pm
“Barking at the moon”???
That’s interesting. I would say that at least 50% of what I wrote is directly from the Bible.
So the Bible just goes on barking, and you continue on not caring?
Interesting analogy.
July 27th, 2010 at 7:32 pm
No, Abi that does not answer my questions, in fact it opens up a whole new load of questions.
And the problem is still the same: CONTEXT
You cannot pull out single verses of Scripture and make application to them outside of the CONTEXT of the passage:
Acts 13:47 – Paul is quoting from the Old Testament (Isaiah 49:6). The Jews were speaking against Paul because Paul was preaching to the Gentiles as well as the Jews. Paul quotes Isaiah’s prophecy to make it clear that the light of JESUS is for the whole world, and look at the very next verse:
“When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.”(Acts 13:48)
Do we need an Apostle to have fellowship with Jesus?
Well………….
Why was the New Testament written? Why did the Apostles and their fellow believers take the time to write the 27 books of the New Testament? Why did the Spirit of God preserve those books to this very day?
The simple answer to this question is yes we do – and we had 13 of them plus other believers who give us that fellowship even today through the things they wrote about the Lord Jesus Christ.
But, to the question of “do we need living apostles today to continue to have fellowship w/ Jesus?”,
the answer to that is NO.
The Apostle John summed up in his 1st epistle that one of the reasons he and the others wrote was so that we may have fellowship with the Father and His Son Jesus Christ.
“We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ. We write this to make our joy complete.”(1 John 1:3-4)
JESUS SAID to his Apostles mathew 10:40 “He who receives you, recieves me and he who recieves me reicieve the one who sent me.”
Yes, and you receive them by accepting what they wrote in the Bible. Where should anything Samuel has written be included with the Bible???
AND JESUS SAID ABOUT HIS APOSTLES when HE was praying: St. John 17: 20 – 23. 20 ‘I ask not only on behalf of these, but also on behalf of those who will believe in me through their word.”
Re-read this passage in John 17 again. Jesus prays first for himself (17:1-5), THEN He prays for His disciples (17:6-19), THEN He begins to pray “for those who will believe in me through their word.”
That’s you and me, Abi, if we believe in Jesus through their word (The Holy Bible).
Romans 11:24 – once again, Abi, look at the CONTEXT. Paul is speaking about LITERAL Israel throughout ALL of Romans chapters 9-11.
Is the Church Israel? If it is, then we are obligated to keep Sabbath day at least in a general sense.
But in the Scripture we find the Church is not Israel the nation, but a separate entity under an entirely new covenant.
Israel is called the wife of Jehovah in the Old Testament, while the Church is called the bride of Christ in the New Testament.
This shows distinctions in how God relates to each, and how each group is related to God.
The word “Israel” is always descriptive of the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. It was Jacob whose name was changed to Israel and had 12 sons that became the nation of Israel. It is the physical posterity of Jacob that is Israel, this is what makes one Jewish.
LLDM attempts to transfer the promises and the covenants of Israel to the Church, but there is absolutely no reason to do this. The Church is not “spiritual Israel.”
Look up this phrase; you’ll never find the term or concept in the Bible.
There are only two verses that are used to validate this view, both are unsupported when they are read in their full context.
There was no Church in the Old Testament because there was no incarnation, no revelation of the Son, nor his sacrifice that broke down the middle wall of partition that separated the Jews from the Gentiles (Eph.2:14). For the Church is made up of both believing Jews and Gentiles, not so for Israel.
Galatians 3:29 says that those who belong to Christ are Abraham’s seed. But Abraham also had a son named Ishmael before he had Isaac, so not all who are Abraham’s seed became Israel.
The seed of Abraham does not mean one is Israel. It means those who are justified by faith are spiritual descendants of Abraham but this does not make them descendants of Jacob, who is Israel.
They partake in the spiritual blessings that come through Israel. While there are two different groups of people who can be descendants of Abraham (one of which is the Arabs), they do not share in the promises of Jacob.
Only Israel is descended from the physical posterity of Jacob. God had specially promised to Israel salvation and the believing Jews received it through the gospel.
But Paul explains that not all the natural descendants of Jacob were embraced in this “Israel;” for that “they are not all Israel, which are of Israel” (Romans 9:6).
As Paul already declared in an earlier chapter: “He is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; but he is a Jew, which is one inwardly” (Romans 2:28-29).
The seed which is Israel is from Jacob and the apostle Paul and other writers make a clear distinction between this and Abraham’s seed.
“But they have not all obeyed the gospel” ( Romans 10:16). They have not all responded to God’s call to repentance and faith in Jesus Christ.
This is foretold by Isaiah, who is quoted by Paul in Romans 9:27; that only a remnant of the natural descendants of Jacob would obtain the salvation of God.
“Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the remnant hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded” (Romans 11:7).
Galatians 3:7 “Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham.”
Being a son of Abraham does not make one a Jew, being a son of Jacob does, so a gentile can be a son of Abraham. But Jew’s are a son of Abraham and of Jacob.
As Paul stated in Romans 4:11-16, the children of Abraham, are those who have the faith of Abraham, whether by their natural birth they were Jews or Gentiles.
This is detailed in Galatians 3 and 4; Galatians 3:26 – “For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus” both Jews and Gentiles are spiritual brethren in the body of Christ.” The apostle says, to Gentile believers: “And if ye be Christ’s then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise” (Galatians 3:29).
So those who accept the Gospel (both Jews and Gentiles) are of Abraham’s seed, but only those who are physically Israel are from Jacobs seed.
The other verse is Galatians 6:16 where Paul is addressing both believing Jews and Gentiles in the church “As many as walk according to this rule (Gentile believers) and upon “the Israel of God.” This can be made clear by the preceding verses 12-13 where Paul is tackling the topic of circumcision and the Jews influence to have the gentiles circumcised.
He then tells us the mandatory rite of the Abrahamic covenant is not applicable to the believer but it is the cross that is necessary to make a new creation. In its context this term means Jews who are believers, who believe salvation is by faith in Christ contrary to what the Judaizer’s were teaching that the law was needed also. Those (Jews) who obey this are the Israel of God (the remnant).
Paul also addresses this in Romans 9:6-8 – that there are two Israel’s, one that consists of Jews and the elect, the true Israel which are the physical posterity and also have the faith of Abraham, they are the Israel of God mentioned in Galatians 6.
As Paul states, “ for they are not all Israel who are of Israel” (Romans 9:6). There is also “Israel” after the flesh found in 1 Corinthians 10:18.
The Church is never called “spiritual Israel” or is a “new Israel” replacing the old. Nor does it say believers become Jews. Both gentiles and Jews participate together in the New Covenant.
As Ephesians 2 addresses, the middle wall of partition being broken down and God making a new entity.
The church is neither Jew or Gentile but consists of both. The two put together make one “new man,” a third entity that is not Israel nor gentile.
The word “Israel” is used 73 times in the New Testament, not once is it used for the Church.
Romans 2:28-29, “For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.”
Notice that the whole chapter is addressing the Jews. Within Paul’s theme of the book of Romans he addresses mankind that can be outlined in 3 portions.
The whole world is under condemnation of sin (Romans 1:18-3:30); and he specifically addresses the Gentiles 1:18-2:16; just as he specifically addresses the Jews 2:17-3:20.
According to Paul’s specific aim in this portion of the letter, not all the descendants from Jacob are Israel; as he states on 9:6 “They are not all Israel who are Israel.” Not all who are named Jews are truly Jews, the true Israel of God (the Jews) are those who believe in the Messiah.
Romans 2:17- 20 starts with the greater responsibility the Jews have. He points to the law that was not given to the Gentiles but the nation of Israel, and they have the responsibility of knowing God.
It never says anything about a gentile being a “spiritual Jew” but is explaining that one is really Jewish not by the keeping of the law, but having a born again experience. Paul is directing the teaching of the promised new covenant specifically to the Jews who believe, although the Gentiles are included. Paul is not teaching Gentiles become spiritual Jews but not all Jews are true Jews. There are Jews who believe and the Jews who are in unbelief. Just as it is put in other areas of a remnant among Israel, the true believers and a non-remnant, believing Israel as the Israel of God.
A believing Gentile becomes a spiritual son of Abraham which is an inheritor of the spiritual blessings God promised to the Jews, they are grafted into the covenant he made with Israel.
As for Israel, the Jews, Jeremiah 30:18, 31:8 “Behold I will bring them from the north country and gather them from the ends of the earth.”
Isaaiah 43:5 “I will bring your descendants from the east and gather you from the west…”
It is a nation that is being gathered today for the tribulation in their original homeland Israel, they are gathered first in unbelief until that fateful day where in Romans 11 Paul says they will all be saved, after the fullness of the gentiles has come in. The Church (made up of both Jews and Gentiles) and is dealt with differently than the nation of Israel, God obviously has a different plan for both.
But, the question I would ask is this. Let’s assume that God did call Eusebio to restore a new “Spiritual Israel”.
Then on May 15, 1948 when the Jews were re-gathered into the Nation of Israel after WW2 and for the first time in thousands of years there was once again literally an independent Jewish State – which restoration was that?
July 27th, 2010 at 7:28 pm
We aren’t barking at the moon, we aren’t the ones living a lie. We have God to judge us, and I’m ecstatic to know, one day, the judgement Samuel Joaquin Flores received. My own father met this man, before he himself believed the lie that he was “chosen” by God, and there is nothing holy or divine about him.
July 27th, 2010 at 7:20 pm
We aren’t judging, we are only telling the truth, Abi. And it seems that the irritated one is you since you don’t know what to do with what people citing scripture bring up. I’m still waiting on those supposed miracles your self-labeled apostle has done. Please tell us.
July 27th, 2010 at 7:17 pm
Except the LORD build the house, they labour in vain that build it: except the LORD keep the city, the watchman waketh but in vain. (psalm 127)
IF a wealthy rich man is driving a nice car, and a dog is barking outside he just keeps on going without even caring…………………thats how you are.. just barking to the moon….. cant never do nothing to it…………………………………………………………………….
July 27th, 2010 at 6:55 pm
and YES you need an Apostle for salvation Acts 13:47 For so the Lord has Command Us ” have made you a light for the gentiles” that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.
JESUS SAID to his Apostles mathew 10:40 “He who receives you, recieves me and he who recieves me reicieve the one who sent me.
AND JESUS SAID ABOUT HIS APOSTLES when HE was praying: St. John 17: 20 – 23. 20 ‘I ask not only on behalf of these, but also on behalf of those who will believe in me through their word.
Spiritual israel: Romans 11:24 For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive.
Does this answer your questions?
July 27th, 2010 at 6:50 pm
Abi,
before I go to study more, I would like to remind you that the Bible instructs us to test those who say they are Apostles:
“I know your deeds, your hard work and your perseverance. I know that you cannot tolerate wicked men, that you have tested those who claim to be apostles but are not, and have found them false.”(Revelation 2:2)
Samuel Joaquin claims to be an apostle, therefore we must test him.
Does he meet the requirements of an apostle? Let’s check the first requirement:
“Therefore it is necessary to choose one of the men who have been with us the whole time the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, beginning from John’s baptism to the time when Jesus was taken up from us. For one of these must become a witness with us of his resurrection.”"(Acts 1:21-22)
Has Samuel Joaquin Flores seen the Resurrected Christ with his own eyes? Other than him saying so himself, are there any other witnesses who could confirm that Samuel indeed has? For ‘every matter must be established by 2 or three witnesses’.
Both Luke (Acts 9) and Paul (1 Corinthians 15) say that Jesus appeared to Paul last after his Resurrection:
“and LAST OF ALL he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.”(1 Corinthians 15:8)
So, if there are other witnesses who claim they were with Samuel when the Resurrected Christ appeared to SJF – then how do you reconcile the apparant contradiction of Paul?
Want more details? I’ve tested Samuel’s claim thoroughly, and I assure you he is not an apostle.
“that you have tested those who claim to be apostles but are not, and have found them false.”(Revelation 2:2)”
“For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.”(2 Corinthians 11:13-15)
July 27th, 2010 at 6:46 pm
Abi
when some one is raised to believe in what they were taught all their live it is hard to truly look for the truth. The truth is in the bible and you will be surprised to find out that the bible talks about the living Jesus today and the apostles are all just human that Jesus chose to walk with him when he was on the earth. The apostles are not angels, they were never worshiped and they talked about all of the miracles that Jesus did of healing millions of blind and death people that Jesus did for us and for our grand kids. Then it talks about Jesus coming back for us, their is no one else that should be coming back except for the anti Christ.
July 27th, 2010 at 6:40 pm
“”I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”(Matthew 18:18).
Once again, Abi – we can not draw meaning out of only 1 verse. Read the whole passage to find the context. This conversation started because the Apostles were arguing amongst themselves as to which was the greatest (Matthew 18:1-9). This leads to Jesus correcting them, then the parable of lost sheep (Matthew 18:10-14)
Then, Jesus gives instructions for when someone sins against us:
“”If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.
“I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”(Matthew 18:15-18)
Jesus was not giving authority to forgive or retain sins, he is giving authority to declare that which had already been bound or loosed in Heaven.
John 20:21-23 echoes this as does the statement Jesus made in Matthew 16:19:
“Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”(John 20:21-23).
“I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will have been loosed in heaven.”(Matthew 16:19)
The “keys” are the true gospel of Jesus Christ, and believing in the gospel.
The disciples, and to a further extent all believer’s authority, is not to determine if a person is guilty or innocent of sin, but simply to declare the judgement of Heaven based on the principles of God’s Word. When they determine such a thing on the basis of God’s Word (the true basis – not an obscure human interpretation therein), they can be certain that Heaven is in accord.
In other words, whatever they “bind” or “loose” on earth is already “bound” or “loosed” in Heaven. If we see an unrepentant person, we know that according to God’s Word, that person is bound in sin. When we see a person repent of their sins and turn to God, we acknowledge that they have been loosed from their sin, and God agrees.
There’s also another important principle of this that’s found in the Lord’s prayer (Matthew 6:9-13): ….”Forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us…”
Forgive us, as we forgive. If you do see a person repent and believe in the true gospel of Jesus Christ, but you still impose man-made rules upon them as a way of them “earning” their Salvation (as such is the case with several religious sects, and LLDM is no exception) you are not forgiving them, but in a way are holding their sins against them until they meet your prescribed requirements. But the Lord’s prayer makes it very clear – until you forgive others, God cannot forgive you.
In summary, only God has the authority to forgive sins. Christians (all believing Christians, not exclusively the apostles) can boldly declare the certainty of a sinner’s forgiveness by God the Father, because of the work of His Son – if that person has repented and believed the gospel.
The believer can also tell with certainty those who do not respond to the message of God’s forgiveness through faith in Christ that their sins, as a result, are not forgiven.
July 27th, 2010 at 6:25 pm
Abi,
The all caps letters imply that you are yelling, so I apologize if I upset you.
I thought my answer was very clear: You are reading the verses out of context. I will study these WHOLE PASSAGES and reply again when I can better explain the context.
But allow me to demonstrate:
“Then I saw another mighty angel coming down from heaven. He was robed in a cloud, with a rainbow above his head; his face was like the sun, and his legs were like fiery pillars. He was holding a little scroll, which lay open in his hand. He planted his right foot on the sea and his left foot on the land, and he gave a loud shout like the roar of a lion. When he shouted, the voices of the seven thunders spoke. And when the seven thunders spoke, I was about to write; but I heard a voice from heaven say, “Seal up what the seven thunders have said and do not write it down.”(Revelation 10:1-4)
According to LLDM, this “mighty angel” is Samuel Joaquin Flores.
But there’s a problem with that interpretation. The problem is Revelation is a book of prophecy (Revelation 1:3), which means everything contained in it has to be literally fulfilled.
So, if we are already at the coming of this “mighty angel”, then there are several prophecies in Revelation which have already come to pass.
If that’s the case, could you please point out the historical events that would coincide with:
Devastating earthquake occurs, causing massive upheaval and terrible devastation—along with unusual astronomical phenomena (Revelation 6:12)
The Seven Trumpets
a) – Hail and fire that destroys much of the plant life in the world (Revelation 8:7)
b) – Meteor hitting the oceans and causing the death of much of the world’s sea life (Revelation 8:9)
c) – Asteroid (named Wormwood) kills life in the lakes and rivers of the world (Revelation 8:10-11)
d) – the Sun and moon to dark (Revelation 8:12)
e) Plague of demonic locusts world wide (Revelation 9:3)
f) Demonic army kills 1/3 of the humans on the Earth (Revelation 9:15)
Ugly and painful sores on the people who have the mark of the beast and worship his image.(Revelation 9:4)
Euphrates River is dried up and the armies of the Antichrist gather (Revelation 9:14-16)
CONTEXT means that you don’t put meaning onto individual Bible verses, but draw meaning out of whole passages. The Bible is not disconnected fragments, it is flowing books and letters, it’s man who divided it up into verses.
July 27th, 2010 at 6:01 pm
YOU MISSED MY POINT I MENTION THE “POPE” U DIDNT RESPOND ME ABOUT THE TEXTS I EXPLAIN TO YOU..ARE YOU HAVING TROUBLE? HERES IS THE ANSWER TO WHY IS NOT IN THE BIBLE AUGUST 14TH FOR THE SANTA CENA AND WHY THE BIBLE DOESNT SPEAK ABOUT WHEN WAS THE TIME FOR RESTAURATION OF JESUS CHURCH…. REVELATIONS 10- VERSE 4
GOD SEALED THIS OTHERWISE EVERYBODY WOULD KNOW. WHAT, WHEN, WHERE, WHY.
I HOPE GOD OPEN YOUR HEART MY FRIEND SINCERELY…..
July 27th, 2010 at 5:33 pm
Abi,
The Bible also does not mention a New “Spiritual Israel”.
The Bible also does not mention August 14th as the only authorized day for “Santa Cena”
The Bible also does not mention anything about believing in any apostle as being a requisite for Salvation.
(Man’s doctrines)
July 27th, 2010 at 5:32 pm
ONE MORE THING, if youre so irritated about lldm based on lies.. or jelous that more than 5 million ppl belong to LLDM, instead why dont you go and talk about Catholic church that has more Millions based on lies heres is a little example buddy: bible doesnt ever mention a POPE,
Bible doesnt teach or mention at all “Guadalupe” Mary has to be worshiped , Idols, recall a dead person to be a saint, voters to choose a pope (mans doctrines) and so on and on and on and on……………………………………………….. DONT JUDGE WHAT YOU DONT KNOW OR SEE………. AND LET BELIEVERS BE. YOU ARE A JOKE
July 27th, 2010 at 5:30 pm
re-read all those passages in Context.
“Now an angel of the Lord said to Philip, “Go south to the road—the desert road—that goes down from Jerusalem to Gaza.” So he started out, and on his way he met an Ethiopian[d]eunuch, an important official in charge of all the treasury of Candace, queen of the Ethiopians. This man had gone to Jerusalem to worship, and on his way home was sitting in his chariot reading the book of Isaiah the prophet. The Spirit told Philip, “Go to that chariot and stay near it.”
Then Philip ran up to the chariot and heard the man reading Isaiah the prophet. “Do you understand what you are reading?” Philip asked.
“How can I,” he said, “unless someone explains it to me?” So he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.
The eunuch was reading this passage of Scripture:
“He was led like a sheep to the slaughter,
and as a lamb before the shearer is silent,
so he did not open his mouth.
In his humiliation he was deprived of justice.
Who can speak of his descendants?
For his life was taken from the earth.”(Acts 8:26-33)
This man was reading from the prophet Isaiah, specifically, what we would know as Isaiah 53:7-8.
Isaiah had written hundreds of years before, foretelling of the Messiah
Luke records this for us in the book of Acts as a way of pointing us to Jesus as the Messiah.
It is just as Christopher wrote:
“The Old Testament declared the coming of the Messiah, Jesus, as the way for forgiveness of sins to bring mankind back into God’s righteousness. And the New Testament points us back to Jesus the Christ as the only way forgiveness of sins and the only way for salvation (Acts 4:12) “Salvation is found in no one else. There is no other name under heaven by which man must be saved.””
What is it that this Ethiopian man did not understand? He did not know if the prophet Isaiah was writing about himself or someone else. Philip explained that it was JESUS who the prophet was writing about.
I will take some time and respond more after I have thoroughly looked more at the context of the other verses you quote.
But in regards to Revelation, what else is included in Revelation?
“I know your deeds, your hard work and your perseverance. I know that you cannot tolerate wicked men, that you have tested those who claim to be apostles but are not, and have found them false.”(Revelation 2:2)
I thank God that He has given me discernment to test those who claim to be apostles, but are not.
July 27th, 2010 at 5:04 pm
thanks for writing,
same i say this to you, respectfully
The Bible tells us a story Acts 8 :26
Now an angel of the Lord said to Apostle Phillip go South to the road near the chariot
and there will be a Ethopian men (eunuch) , when he went he found him reading the Scriptures about Isaih
And Phillip asked him, Do you understand what youre reading? How can I? he said, Unless SOME ONE explains it to me.. So Phillip invited to seat down with him, (and as you read along) Phillip preaches him about Jesus Christ….
And as they traveled along the road, they came to some water, and the eunuch said, LOOK! here is water! why shouldnt i be Baptized? then they gave orders to stop the chairot and Phillip baptized him..
First Point:
Phillip Apostle of Jesus Christ has the Authority to Baptise, Preach and oviously Explain the Misteries we read in the bible….
No One else can pray directly to GOD and get an answer.. because GOD has an Order of things..
another thing i would like you to explain
When they asked Jesus: What can we do to Obtain eternal life? Jesus said “This is the Perferct WORK.. to believe in the ONE that God has sent.
Reveletions Mention About this Keep this in mind that revelatons are Misteries that were to happen in the last days
Revelations 10:1 Then I saw another mighty angel coming down from heaven. He was robed in a cloud, with a rainbow above his head; his face was like the sun, and his legs were like fiery pillars.
ahead it says: it is NESSESARY that you go and Preach to all PEOPLE, NATIONS, TOUNGUES, RACES.. again Do you Understand it? why God has an Angel coming to preach to the world again?
This is Gods will that someone comes SENT form GOD to guide his ppl to the truth
this is not beacuse we choose or himself its God.
ill be Gladly to show you more examples about the Election of Gods chosens one..
Jesus gave his Disiples (Apostles) autority to forgive and retain sins Mathew 18:18
John 14:17 we also have to get baptized and recieve the Holy ghost to go to heaven
get baptized not just by anyone who feels like it… under Gods approval
Thst Gods Order of acomodate his Gospel and His commandments
We dont follow the things how they are…. equals NO salvation.
i thank God that i truly believe in a Servat of God
God has mercy of so many people worldwide.. people that have dreams about Him
without even bieng a member of the church or have never seen him in their life
and eventually the come to know the church and finally when they see him!! its a wonderful gift from God
No real Apostle of God.. No Real Baptism, no holy ghost recieved = No salvation
God bless
July 26th, 2010 at 7:47 pm
Amen Christopher.
Abi, I say this with the sincere love of Jesus in my heart; Everything Christopher wrote is true.
I too recommend you begin to read the Gospel of John, asking only the Holy Spirit teach you.
La Luz Del Mundo is not teaching you who Jesus really is, the Holy Spirit can because only He can make Jesus real to you.
Find out who Jesus really is by just the things that Jesus Himself said and did.
“Jesus answered her, “If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water.”
“Sir,” the woman said, “you have nothing to draw with and the well is deep. Where can you get this living water? Are you greater than our father Jacob, who gave us the well and drank from it himself, as did also his sons and his flocks and herds?”
Jesus answered, “Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, but whoever drinks the water I give him will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life.”"(John 4:10-14)
Only Jesus can give you the living water that becomes a spring welling up to eternal life. He said so Himself.
July 26th, 2010 at 1:43 pm
Dear Abi,
With all love through the Lord Jesus Christ I say this to you. The doctrine of “Election” and that a “man of God” must be here on earth for salvation is a lie. You will not find any place either in the Old or New Testaments of Moses, the prophets, or the original apostles of Jesus ever declaring that it is because they are here on earth that mankind may receive the gift of salvation and forgiveness of sins.
The Old Testament declared the coming of the Messiah, Jesus, as the way for forgiveness of sins to bring mankind back into God’s righteousness. And the New Testament points us back to Jesus the Christ as the only way forgiveness of sins and the only way for salvation (Acts 4:12) “Salvation is found in no one else. There is no other name under heaven by which man must be saved.”
Apostle Paul always pointed to the Christ Jesus for salvation and for the forgiveness of sins and he spend a great deal of the time instructing Timothy and Titus in the same ways of the Lord for salvation because he knew that he was die soon in Rome.
I ask you why would Paul give such great detail in his writings if when he died the way for salvation would be lost.
Abi you learned the doctrine of “Election” from the mouths of man under the control of Samuel Joaquin Flores and not from God’s spoken word the Holy Bible. I also know that you have been taught that you will not be able to understand the truths of the Holy Scripture without it being interpreted to you by Samuel or his pastors.
Do you believe that you have the Holy Spirit with in you? If so, trust in Him to teach you the truths of Jesus Christ by reading the Gospel of John and let Him guide you.
July 26th, 2010 at 8:51 am
Abi, you write:
“WHEN he was born he was born dead… his fahter prayed and he came back alive”
Did you witness this? Were you there in 1937 to witness a still birth and a miracle resurrection? Or you only heard the story?
“not to mention all the miracles he has done,”
WHAT miracles? Could you describe these miracles please? And also, were you there to witness these miracles? Or you only heard the story?
I would like you to describe these alleged miracles please. If you witnessed them with your own eyes, then you should not have any trouble describing them to us.
But, if you didn’t witness any of them and only heard the stories, I would recommend that you take your own advice:
“please dont be absurd with this stories… ‘they told me” i heard” without REALLY KNOWING”
July 26th, 2010 at 8:38 am
“WHEN he was born he was born dead… his fahter prayed and he came back alive
that tells us more that just not to mention all the miracles he has done, please dont be absurd
with this stories…”
What miracles again? Please point them out. So, if I dream with God, does this make me an Apostle, Abi? Aaron just passed to torch within family, to Samuel, and Samuel will do the same. God doesn’t choose a perpetuating line for Apostleship, honey. That’s all LLDM followers ever say: “Oh, that’s lies, lies, lies… and you are wrong, research the truth, blah, blah, blah”.
We have heard it all before. We don’t tell lies here. We use facts. When you LLDM proponents use facts (not hunches, not “I believe”, not “you’re lying”, not opinions), then you will have a good argument for Samuel and LLDM.
July 25th, 2010 at 6:45 pm
you have bad information, about this church sorry but know the truth before you speak.
the light of the world church is the greatest church with a perfet gospel, and like Apostle Paul,
theres need to be someone today to recieve the truth.. the corintians loved Apostle, now hes gone,,, well now we love Samuel Joaquin as our Apostle and Honor him
NOw thats a real story about him being called not because his father was called but because Gods will, WHEN he was born he was born dead… his fahter prayed and he came back alive
that tells us more that just not to mention all the miracles he has done, please dont be absurd
with this stories… ‘they told me” i heard” without REALLY KNOWING abi_evo@yahoo.com
July 25th, 2010 at 12:38 pm
That is funny that you mentioned that Colin. Just yesterday my dad was telling me the story about why Muslims fallow Muhammad and worship him rather then worshiping God. That is interesting and I was thinking of LLDM to be the same.
July 25th, 2010 at 11:04 am
One of the books I’ve been reading lately is called “mormonism and Islam” in which the author outlines the many similarities between Mormon and Muslim beliefs.
One of the things he outlines is how Mormon, Islam, JW and all the “Christian” cults (such as LLDM) are very similar by many common “filters”.
They have filters that add. Filters that say “the Bible is not enough”, and all have their own “new revelations” that came after the Bible was written and they say must be believed and followed (Qu’ran, book of Mormon, “la historia”, “life and work of apostle Aaron Joaquin”).
They also have filters which subtract. Filters that take away from the things Jesus said about Himself, denying that He was/is God in the flesh. They like to follow some of the things Jesus said, but filter out the parts where Jesus declared that He is God and that if you don’t believe He is who He says that you will die in your sins. They filter Jesus down to just a “great prophet” or a “good man filled with the Holt spirit”.
To address this, the author has a chapter titled “Jesus un filtered”, and this is something I would highly reccomend to all members of LLDM. He tells the reader to imagine that all they knew about Jesus came from what He Himself said and did. If a man came along who was able to feed thousands of people with a few fish and loaves of bread, was able to stop a storm with His words, walk on water, etc.
And He said things such as “before Abraham was born I AM”, “I and the Father are one”, “I am the way the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father except by me.”
This man died on a cross, and came back to life. Men and women even bowed down and worshipped Him!!
Take a look at everything Jesus said and did, and there is no way you could come to the conclusion that He was just a “good man”, but if you’re being honest, you would have to conclude the He is God manifest in the flesh!!
July 22nd, 2010 at 10:26 am
There is now a DVD of the 2009 LA Kodak Theater production for sale on LLDMusa.org
25 bucks a pop, I suspect the majority will be sold to LLDM members, and I know for certain all profits from the sale will go directly to the greedy false apostle.
I’m considering ordering one in order to thoroughly document all the idolatry and pagan worship of SJF, although I have a hunch many things have been cleverly edited out.
July 21st, 2010 at 8:50 am
Mary,
I’ve gotten the same answer from LLDM members about the thief on the cross who believed, but was not baptized, but was still saved.
They:
“answered just like many other LLDM that this was an exception.”
I always reply with:
“Don’t you think he might’ve been the rule rather than the exception?”
To which some will just walk away from me, but from the ones kind enough to continue speaking with me, I always get a long pause, followed by an unconfident sounding “no?”.
July 20th, 2010 at 8:00 pm
“A matter must be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.”(Deuteronomy 19:15)
I think it just occurred to me how devastating this one statement is to the foundation of LLDM, because NOTHING in LLDM is established by 2 or 3 witnesses.
Eusebio’s “calling” in 1926, his “revelation” to sojourn to Guadalajara, his “revelation” of auto-baptism, Samuel’s “calling”, etc. etc.
Why are there never any witnesses to these visions? Why is every “vision” or “revelation” to the “apostles” of LLDM always just based on the testimony of 1 man?
The Bible says no matter of truth can be established this way, “Every matter must be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.”(2 Corinthians 13:1)
July 20th, 2010 at 7:36 pm
Christopher,
As always, excellent Biblical exposition and intelligent reasoning from the Scriptures. I would love to obtain a copy of that book, perhaps I’ll inquire at the local LLDM assembly.
There is one thing I wanted to add:
“Then, amidst the light, he saw the image of Jesus baptizing himself in the Jordan River.”
-“Life and Work of Apostle Aaron Joaquin” page 146
Let’s assume Aaron really did see this vision. Does that mean the vision was from God? Is it not possible for satan to give someone a demonic vision disguised as a vision from heaven?
Oh yes it is possible, that is why it is so important to test the spirits (1 John 4:1-6).
How could we know? Well, if the vision is from God, it will be centered around the Word of God (the Holy Bible) and the Person of Jesus Christ. Therefore, any visions depicting Jesus would have to truly represent the true Person and Work of Jesus as presented in the Bible.
Does Aaron’s vision truly represent the Jesus of the Bible or is it a distorted vision as recorded in LLDM’s literature?
The vision – “he saw the image of Jesus baptizing himself in the Jordan River.”
The Bible’s depictions of Christ’s baptism do not have Jesus baptizing himself:
“Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to be baptized by John.”(Matthew 3:12)
“Apostle” Aaron and the Apostle Matthew do not agree? hmm…let’s check with a 3rd witness to find the truth for “”Every matter must be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.”(Deuteronomy 19:15).
What do you say, Mark?
“At that time Jesus came from Nazareth in Galilee and was baptized by John in the Jordan.”(Mark 1:9)
Beloved members of LLDM, with this in mind, I ask you: Is the life and work of Aaron Joaquin, deceased, presenting the truth? Or is it truly distorting the Person and Work of the Living Lord Jesus Christ?
Christopher wisely stated that Jesus humbled himself to John’s baptism to show that Jesus had come to serve the first time. This is true.
But I also see another purpose in John’s ministry and in Christ’s baptism and that was to reveal first to Israel, and then to the world that this Jesus of Nazareth IS the Christ!
“The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! This is the one I meant when I said, ‘A man who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’ I myself did not know him, but the reason I came baptizing with water was that he might be revealed to Israel.”(John 1:29-31)
The time had come in God’s plan for the Anointed One, the Christ, the Messiah, to begin His work of redeeming mankind. John did not even know that the Promised Messiah presented in the Old Testament Scriptures was his very own 2nd cousin Jesus from Nazareth. John was led by the Holy Spirit into the desert to begin preaching a baptism of repentance.
The people of Israel at this time were eagerly awaiting the Messiah to deliver them from the grips of the tyrannical Roman Empire. So, when John was preaching the good news, at first, people thought that John was the Christ:
“The people were waiting expectantly and were all wondering in their hearts if John might possibly be the Christ. John answered them all, “I baptize you with water. But one more powerful than I will come, the thongs of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire. His winnowing fork is in his hand to clear his threshing floor and to gather the wheat into his barn, but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”(Luke 3:15-17)
The One John was speaking of was Jesus. Jesus is the Christ. He offered a much different deliverance than the people were expecting, as He delivered them from their sins by dying on a cross for them, and He proved He was the Messiah when He rose again from the dead. They were expecting the Messiah represented in the Old Testament as a Divine King who would crush the empires of this world and rule in an eternal kingdom. What they got was the Messiah represented in the Old Testament as the meek, lowly suffering servant.
Beloved members of LLDM:
He died for your sins in weakness, He came back to life in Mighty Power. He is the Divine King, but He did not come to reign the first time, as Christopher said, He came to serve. He came to pay the penalty for your sins, and He came to announce that He is the King.
And today He is alive, seated at the right hand of God, waiting for His enemies to be made His footstool. He is inviting you into His Kingdom that will one day reign on this earth.
And the Only way you get into the Kingdom is by trusting the King.
The King is alive today! The King is coming back soon! The Lord Jesus is the Christ and He is the King. You must trust Him and no one else. He was revealed so that we might know the only way. Only Jesus Christ, the King of Kings and Lord of Lords, can save and forgive you.
He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.
Amen.
July 20th, 2010 at 3:34 pm
Christopher:
This is a good piece of reasoning. However, the members of LLDM are thought not to reason, just believe, specially on everything concerning the “election” of the Joaquin family members as royalty of LLDM.
The portion of the story (not History) of Eusebio’s evolution from a simple preacher or evangelist (However there is nothing simple in being a true evangelist), toward stardom as a privileged “apostle of God” is still a work in progress.
In all my years belonging to LLDM (You really belong to them in every aspect of your life) I never heard this embellished version of the works and troubles of Eusebio. Specifically the part where Eusebio “saw the self-baptism of Jesus.
I wonder if Rene Renteria’s pen is behind this. Since people like Christopher, Colin and others keep uncovering discrepancies in the fables in LLDM with the real Word of God, the stories will continue to be massaged.
LLDM is used to believe in “dreams” instead of listening to the Word of God. Dreams that later achieve the status of “visions and revelations”, aligned generally to emphasize certain doctrines or beliefs that benefit the “anointed”.
July 20th, 2010 at 2:48 pm
My responce to a LLDM member from my blog site.
__________
I appreciate your willingness to post comments on my blog site and as such the context of blogs are to voice opinions that may or may not lead to discussions such as this. I have never presented my opinions as facts. But I would like to present to you a fact that was spoken of just this past Sunday, July 18th.
LLDM holds this day as a very holy day because of Aaron’s vision in 1943 of the Lord Jesus Christ instructing Aaron to baptize himself (auto-baptism) in order to declare himself the “new apostle of God” and to establish a “new beginning” for the church that he had already established performing the act of auto-baptism on July 18, 1943. This is in light of the fact that Aaron had already been baptized 5 years earlier in 1938 by Brother Figueroa. But by 1943 Aaron came to believe that his 1938 baptism was not good enough because it did not establish him as equal to Christ for the forgiveness of sins.
I say equal to Christ Jesus because as recorded in the official LLDM history book (English) of the “Life and Work of Apostle Aaron Joaquin” on page 146 and I quote –
“Then, amidst the light, he saw the image of Jesus baptizing himself in the Jordan River.”
This is a false statement to support what Aaron believed to be his new founded authority to be the new “messenger, representative, ambassador, liaison, and union between God and his church” (page 148 of the same book).
THE FACT of the matter is that the Lord Jesus Christ did not atuo-baptize himself. He was baptized by John the Baptist. The Lord Jesus did this for the express purpose to show to mankind that He, God in the Flesh, was not here to rule but to serve mankind as a servant, to be the true perfect sacrifice for our sins, and to be the only true messenger, representative, ambassador, liaison, and union between God and His church.
(Matt 3:13) – “Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to be baptized by John. But John tried to deter him, saying, “I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?” Jesus replied, “Let it be so now; it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness.” Then John consented.”
(Mark 1:9) – “At that time Jesus came from Nazareth in Galilee and was baptized by John in the Jordan.”
The history and time-line for the baptisms of Aaron does not stop with his baptism in 1938. Even thought it is recorded on (pages 119 – 121) of how in 1938 Aaron decided that it was time for him to go back to Monterrey to talk with Saulo and Silas, “parallel authorities who held all the power of the gospel in that region.” Here LLDM historians are recording that Saulo and Silas are equal to Aaron.
During Aaron’s time in Monterrey he was talking of the doctrine of “In the name of Jesus Christ” only for baptism and that the “Trinitarian” doctrine of “the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit” was false. While speaking this doctrine Aaron was confronted by Maria Luisa. She proceeded to inform Aaron that he was baptized himself in the name of “the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit”.
On (page 121) it is recorded that, “Brother Aaron was speechless due to the surprise. He held his breath. Submerged in his conscience, he searched for the fleeting space of the act when he was baptized. He could not find it. He only remembered the emotion of the moment.”
Maria Luisa told Aaron to go and talk with Silas himself which Aaron did and Silas confirmed to Aaron that he had been baptized “in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, this is to say, in the trinity.”
On Sunday after the pastor read of this history he neglected to read another passage from the history book found on (page 18) regarding Aarons history of baptisms which I will present here –
Before I cite this section of history let me preface it with this; Aaron had been trying to legally get out of his military obligations with out success and decided that it was best for him to just leave “and to temporarily hide in a church.” Just so you understand this is called “Desertion” and even in today’s modern US Army is punishable by death.
“This determination made it necessary for him to leave Torreon as quickly as possible and to temporarily hide in a church. As an alternative, the brothers proposed for him to go to Tampico where Brother Catarino Ramos, known as Barnabas, was staying accompanied by the missionary Jose Stewart, or to go to Monterrey where Brothers Saulo and Silas lived. These men (Saulo and Silas) were viewed by the brothers as the most holy. His (Aaron) choice was not difficult, feeling a natural liking for Brother Silas, who had baptized them, (Aaron and his wife Elisa) they decided to go to Monterrey. They gave away their furniture and other belongings they could not take.”
So in summary regarding Aaron’s baptisms:
1.First baptism in the “Triune” name of God, the Father, the Son, and Holy Spirit performed by Silas (1925).
2.Second baptism “In the name of Jesus Christ” alone performed by Brother Figueroa. (1938)
3.Lastly baptized again “In the name of Jesus Christ” but performed by himself. (1943)
Question: Why did Brother Eusebio (Aaron) go through all of this since he had already received from God the one true Holy Spirit as recorded in the history book with its own chapter on (pages 16 – 18) titled “HE RECEIVES THE HOLY SPIRIT”. What is even more amazing is in this same chapter it is recorded that his wife Sister Elisa had already received the Holy Spirit because of her faith in the Lord Jesus.
Eusebio (Aaron) speaking – ““Lord, if the feelings of faith that my wife has are from you, I want to feel the same.” There was a precedent for this. Sister Elisa had already received the Holy Spirit, but he did not know this, nor did he understand these manifestations.” (Page 16).
Shortly afterwards it is recorded that Eusebio (Aaron) began speaking in tongues while he was praying, “he immediately told his wife about this fascinating experience. Since she was cognizant of the same emotions, she said with Joy: “God is with us.” (Page 16)
And again a little later, “This even happened several times, and on one of those days, Brother Leandro Garcia, pastor of the church in Matomoros de La Laguna, Coachuila, passed near that place of refuge. He heard someone praying and speaking in tongues. He approached and recognized Brother Eusebio (Aaron). Once this event had concluded, Brother Leandro remained with him a long while and thoroughly explained to him that those manifestations signified the presence of the Holy Spirit and that he had received it like the first Christians had. Later Brother Leandro gave public testimony before the whole church of Torreon that Brother Aaron (Eusebio) had received the promise of the Holy Spirit and the gift of speaking in tongues.” (Page 17)
Now what I find interesting is that during this chapter, and all other chapters that follow to the end of this history book, never is it declared that Brother Eusebio (Aaron) received a false holy spirit in 1925 and that it was not until his self-baptism in 1943 did he receive the one true Holy Spirit. It has always been acknowledged that Aaron received the one true Holy Spirit in 1925.
So my question is this – Just before Aaron received his first baptism by Silas in 1925 he received the Holy Spirit. Why then did Aaron, the future Apostle of God, not understand that everything that he had read in the Bible was wrong regarding being baptized in the name of the Father, the Son, and Holy Spirit?
It is now clear as to why the statement “Then, amidst the light, he saw the image of Jesus baptizing himself in the Jordan River” was made by Aaron. He believed himself to be the new Christ, the new Messiah and the new Savior of the world. And as of 1943 he was now the only one on earth who could grant forgiveness of sins. It made perfect sense to himself and his followers that he must auto-baptize himself and forgive himself of his sins first and then begin to be the means by which all others are forgiven their sins.
One problem with that train of belief is that the Lord Jesus Christ was not born of sin and did not need to forgive himself of sin and therefore he did not need to have his sins washed away in baptism because he had no sin! Just as I mentioned in the beginning Jesus did this to show to mankind of how much He loves us and humbled himself before us to save us! AMEN!
This first act of glorification is the beginning point where all of the other doctrines of LLDM can trace their origins from. In order for Aaron to explain how he can be the only Savior for forgiveness of sins he had to first remove Christ from His place of righteousness as was clearly expressed 56 years later declaring “Jesus was just another great man who lived here on earth but is now no more” to quote from the 2009 LA Kodak Theater production praising and glorifying the now currently believed Savior of the world, Samuel Joaquin Flores.
Food for thought: If 1943 was the new starting point for the forgiveness of sins through Aaron Joaquin and he was the origin for all to receive forgiveness of sins through him, and his disciples (pastors) to include his son Samuel Flores then would it not be possible for anyone who is forgiven of their sins and baptized under the authority of LLDM to become an apostle of God?
Or did Samuel Flores also auto-baptize himself and forgive himself of his sins in the same way as his father did?
July 20th, 2010 at 2:46 pm
Mary
please tell me that your husband is not going to that two week trip to Guadalajara, that is just all none sense. I just wish they were worshiping the true living God, why this crazy apostle that believes he can take sins why? why? why!!!!!!!!!!
July 20th, 2010 at 1:26 pm
i had this conversation once with husband. I said “What about thief on cross? He believed but was not baptized and he was saved. ” Husband answered just like many other LLDM that this was an exception.
Paul even admitted that he was glad that he only baptized a few people.
July 19th, 2010 at 8:44 pm
“Gagc”,
You are wrong.
“Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.”(Mark 16:16) (NIV)
Aby is still correct as even this verse you chose “does not say that we need to be baptized in order to be saved.”
Should we interpret it to mean that if a person is not baptized they will perish? Well, “Gagc”, if Mark 16:16 were the only verse in the Bible, I might be inclined to agree with you. But unfortunately that is only 1 sentence out of at least 20 in that chapter, out of 16 chapters in the book, out of 66 books in the whole Bible.
If you can’t get a whole body of Scripture to support your belief, then you better not build a belief on just 1 little verse. If it’s a Great and necessary truth it will be in more than just one place, and there will be many many verses stating it. It will be stated by at least 2 or 3 different authors if it is truth.
I am not telling you that, but the Bible:
“… In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.”(2 Corinthians 13:1)
“”On the evidence of two witnesses or three witnesses, he who is to die shall be put to death; he shall not be put to death on the evidence of one witness.”(Deuteronomy 17:6)
So, I ask – what other Scriptures do you feel supports your belief that you must be baptized in order to be saved???
These are the other Scriptures, and the reasons why I do not agree with you:
As with any single verse or passage, we discern what it teaches by first filtering it through what we know the Bible teaches on the subject at hand.
In the case of baptism and salvation, the Bible is clear that salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, not by works of any kind, including baptism:
Witness #1 – Paul:
“For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast.”(Ephesians 2:8-9).
Witness #2 – Peter:
“”But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are.”(Acts 15:11)
So, any interpretation which comes to the conclusion that baptism, or any other act, is necessary for salvation, is a faulty interpretation.
In regard to Mark 16:16, it is also important to remember that there are some textual issues with Mark chapter 16, verses 9-20.
The earliest manuscripts of Mark’s writing end at verse 8 (which is noted in the New International Version, BTW), so there is some question as to whether these verses were originally part of the Gospel of Mark, or whether they were added later by a scribe.
As a result, it is best not to base a key doctrine on anything from Mark 16:9-20, such as snake-handling, unless it is also supported by other Scriptures.
Assuming that verse 16 was included in Mark’s original manuscript, does it teach that baptism is required for salvation?
The simple answer is: No, it does not. In fact, when one carefully examines this verse, it becomes clear that in order to make it teach that baptism is required for salvation, one must go beyond what the verse actually says.
What this verse does teach is that belief is necessary for salvation, which is consistent with all other verses in the Bible that deal with salvation, especially the countless verses where only belief or faith is mentioned:
Witness #1 – The Lord Jesus Christ (as recorded by the Apostle John, who heard Him speak):
“Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son”(John 3:18)
“”I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.”(John 5:24)
“Then Jesus cried out, “When a man believes in me, he does not believe in me only, but in the one who sent me.”(John 12:44)
Witness #2 – John the Apostle:
“But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.”(John 20:31)
“I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.”(1 John 5:13).
Now,
“He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned” (Mark 16:16).
If we look at this verse closely, we see that it is composed of two basic statements. 1—He who believes and is baptized will be saved. 2—He who does not believe will be condemned.
Clearly, the determining factor regarding whether one is saved or condemned is whether or not the person believes.
In interpreting this passage correctly, it is important to realize that while it tells us something about believers who have been baptized (they are saved), it does not say anything about believers who have not been baptized.
In order for this verse to teach that baptism is necessary for salvation, a third statement would have had to be included, that statement being: “He who believes and is not baptized will be condemned” or “He who is not baptized will be condemned.” But, of course, neither of these statements is found in the verse.
“Gagc”, I know and you know that LLDM has led you to believe and has taught you that Mark 16:16 teaches that baptism is necessary for salvation.
What I want you to recognize is that those who try to use Mark 16:16 to teach that baptism is necessary for salvation commit a common but serious logical fallacy that is sometimes called the Negative Inference Fallacy.
This fallacy can be stated as follows: “If a statement is true, we cannot assume that all negations (or opposites) of that statement are also true.”
In other words, just because Mark 16:16 says that “he who believes and is baptized will be saved” it does not mean that if one believes, but is not baptized, he will not be saved. Yet, this is exactly what is assumed by those that look to this verse to support the view that baptism is necessary for salvation.
Often when considering logical fallacies, it can be helpful to look at other examples of the same fallacy. This will help us see the fallacy that is being committed more clearly.
In this case let’s consider two different but similarly structured statements. The first one is made considering the devastating hurricane that destroyed much of New Orleans in the fall of 2005.
As a result of that hurricane, many lives were lost, and whole areas of New Orleans were destroyed. With that scenario in mind let’s consider the first statement that is very similar in structure to what we find in Mark 16:16. “Those who left their homes and fled from New Orleans were saved; those who stayed in their homes perished.”
Now, if we use the same logic on this statement as those that believe that Mark 16:16 teaches that baptism is necessary for salvation, then we would have to conclude that if both the first conditions were not met (1—leaving their homes, 2—fleeing from New Orleans,) then everyone else would perish.
Yet, in real life, we know this was not true. Some people did stay in their homes in the low-lying areas and did not perish. In this situation it is easy to see that while the first statement is true, it is not true to assume that all those that did not flee New Orleans perished.
Yet, if we use the same logic being used by those that say that Mark 16:16 teaches that baptism is necessary for salvation, that is the conclusion that must be reached. Yet, it is clearly an erroneous conclusion.
Another example we might consider would be this statement: “Whoever believes and lives in Kansas will be saved, those that do not believe are condemned.”
Again take note of the similar structure as is found in Mark 16:16, and yet once again, it becomes clear that to say that only believers who live in Kansas are saved is an illogical and false assumption.
While Mark 16:16 does tell us something about believers who have been baptized (they will be saved), again, it says nothing about believers who have not been baptized.
“Whoever believes and lives in Kansas will be saved.”
“Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved” (Mark 16:16).
While both of these statements are true, we should notice that the first statement says nothing about people who believe and don’t live in Kansas. And in the same way, Mark 16:16 tells us nothing about believers who have not been baptized. It is a logical fallacy and false assumption, to make the first statement say that you have to live in Kansas to be saved, or the second statement say that you have to be baptized to be saved.
It is important to realize that just because Mark 16:16 has two conditions relating to salvation (believe and be baptized), it does not mean that both conditions are requirements for being saved.
This would also hold true if a third condition was added. Whether it is two or three conditions in a statement about salvation, the fact is, that does not mean that all three conditions must be met for one to be saved.
In fact, we can add any number of secondary conditions to belief, such as if you believe and are baptized you will be saved, or if you believe, are baptized, go to church, and tithe you will be saved. However, to imply that all these conditions are requirements for salvation is incorrect.
This is important to realize because in order to know that a specific condition is required for salvation, we must have a negation statement as we have in the second part of Mark 16:16: “whoever does not believe will be condemned.”
In essence what Jesus has done in this verse is give us both the positive condition of belief (whoever believes will be saved) and the negative condition of unbelief (whoever does not believe will be condemned.)
Therefore, we can say with absolute certainty that belief is a requirement for salvation.
Even more importantly, we see both these positive and negative conditions over and over in Scripture
Witness #1 – The Lord Jesus Christ:
“”For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”(John 3:16)
“Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son”(John 3:18)
“Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on him.”(John 3:36)
“”I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.”(John 5:24)
“Jesus said to them, “I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.”(John 6:53-54)
“I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am the one I claim to be, you will indeed die in your sins.”"(John 8:24)
Witnesses #2 & 3 – Paul and Silas:
“They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.”(Acts 16:31).
While Jesus does give the positive condition of baptism (whoever is baptized) in Mark 16:16 and other verses, nowhere in the Bible do we find the negative condition of baptism being taught (such as whoever is not baptized will be condemned). Therefore, we cannot say that baptism is necessary for salvation based on Mark 16:16 (or any other similar verse). Those that do so are basing their argument on faulty logic.
Does this 1 single disconnect verse teach that baptism is or is not necessary for salvation? No it does not.
It very clearly establishes that belief is a requirement for salvation, but does not prove or disprove whether baptism is a condition or requirement for salvation.
How can we know, then, if one must be baptized in order to be saved?
We must look to the full counsel of God’s word to establish this. To summarize the evidence against baptism being required for salvation:
1—The Bible is clear that we are saved by faith alone. Abraham was saved by faith, and we are saved by faith (Romans 4:1-25; Galatians 3:6-22).
2–Throughout the Bible, in every dispensation, people have been saved without being baptized. Every believer in the Old Testament (e.g. Abraham, Jacob, David, Solomon) was saved but not baptized. The thief on the cross was saved but not baptized. Cornelius was saved before he was baptized (Acts 10:44-46).
3—Baptism is a testimony of our faith and a public declaration that we believe in Jesus Christ. The Scriptures clearly tell us that we have eternal life the moment we believe (John 5:24), and belief always comes before being baptized. Baptism does not save us any more than walking an aisle or saying a prayer saves us. We are saved when we believe.
4–The Bible never says that if one is not baptized then he is not saved. The Bible never says that we must be baptized in order to be saved.
5—If baptism is required for salvation, it means no one can be saved without a third party being present. In other words, if baptism is required for salvation, someone must baptize a person before he can be saved. This effectively limits who can be saved and when he can be saved. It means that someone who believes in and trusts in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, but dies before they have the chance of being baptized, they would be condemned to hell. The consequences of this doctrine, when carried to its logical conclusion, are devastating. A soldier who believes but is killed in battle before he can be baptized would perish, etc.
6—Throughout the Bible we see that at the point of faith or belief, a believer possesses all the promises and blessings of salvation (John 1:12; 3:16; 5:24; 6:47; 20:31; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31). When one believes, he has eternal life, does not come under judgment, and has passed from death into life (John 5:24), all before he/she is baptized.
LLDM believes in baptismal regeneration, and therefore believes they cannot be saved until someone dunks them in water.
Beloved members of LLDM: you would do well to prayerfully and carefully consider who or what you are really putting your faith and trust in.
Is faith being placed in work or an act (being baptized) or on the finished work of Christ on the cross?
Whom or what is being trusted for salvation?
Could it be that it is the shadow (baptism) instead of the substance (the Christ Jesus)?
We must never forget that our faith must rest in Christ alone because “we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace” (Ephesians 1:7).
July 18th, 2010 at 8:27 pm
Aby you are wrong when you say “hey say you need to be baptized in order to be saved. But the Bible does not say that we need to be baptized in order to be saved ”
I am not telling you but the bible:
Mark 16:16 (New International Version)
Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
July 17th, 2010 at 12:20 pm
Can you see the subliminal message and real meaning of SJF words? :
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(SJF , sic..)
“Christ was not in the big cities, Christ was with humble, simple people. On the shores of the sea. Although, his clothes were not despised, but they heard his word and said -this is a man of God-.So I’m with you, I do not come to meet the parliament, i did not come to the city offices, no, I come with humble people, who seek God, those who have the need of God, which are simple because that is the gospel of Christ.”
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The real meaning of SJF words is:
“You see? I’m like Jesus, I’m humble and poor of spirit and even though you see me wearing designers’ clothes and expensive watches, In my interior I’m just like the Lord.”
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Members of LLDM church: Where are the words of wisdom and new knowledge of God that were the trademark of the real apostles of Christ? There are none, nada, zero. Just the exhortation to “keepthe faith” in the “election” in order to keep his place of privilege and power.
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Poor people of LLDM, so far from God and so fond of the Joaquin Family.
July 17th, 2010 at 9:47 am
To show just a sample of Samuel Joaquin Flores hypocrisy I transcript the following message to the “church” in Paris France in the inauguration of his most recent franchise:
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“-It came to me the memories of Christ, Christ was not in the big cities, Christ was with humble, simple people. On the shores of the sea. Although, his clothes were not despised, but they heard his word and said -this is a man of God-. So I’m with you, I do not come to meet the parliament, i did not come to the city offices, no, I come with humble people, who seek God, those who have the need of God, which are simple because that is the gospel of Christ.
Christ told those who had sent John the Baptist: the sick are healed, the blind have seen and the kingdom of heaven is for the poor. We are in the kingdom of heaven! So I wanted to meet you .-”
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Of course he did not met the parliament of France or the mayor of Paris, not that he didn’t wanted to. “The grapes are not ripe” the fox said.
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Over there SJF has no influential friends or political connections. Over there he is a speck of dust in the floor no matter if his pockets are deep. Over there I bet he had experienced first hand the racism of some the European people because of his dark skin.
I wonder how many doors he had knocked over there to share the Gospel besides the doors of the Moulin Rouge, the Crazy Horse or Prada and Tiffany stores. Over there SJF felt a sentiment he had long time forgotten, humbleness.
July 17th, 2010 at 1:56 am
In Acts 16, when the Jailer asked Paul “What must I do to be saved?” the answer was “Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.” period. LLDM tries to say that the Jailer was not saved until after he and his family were baptized, but Paul never stipulated baptism as a requirement for Salvation. Paul had been put in prison for telling people that the Lord Jesus had died on the cross in weakness, but that He was bearing the punishment for our sins. And that He had come back from the dead in mighty power and could save and forgive all those who would believe in the Sacrifice He made and trust the Resurrected Christ. This was not the only time Paul had been put in prison for this, but Paul’s only message of what a person must do to be saved was “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, you and your family.”
Once the Jailer believed in the power of the Risen Christ, he wanted to express his newfound faith outwardly (him and his family), so they were baptized.
Other than show the guards and other people watching the jailer that he was trusting Christ as Savior, all he was doing by submerging in water was taking some dirt off his body maybe. I do that when I shower.
Jesus had forgiven his sins the moment the jailer decided to trust in Him, and the Holy Spirit was sent to be in the jailer (this was evidenced by the jailer wanting to wash Paul and Silas’ wounds from the flogging he had allowed, and he humbled himself joyfully).
It was not after he was dunked in water, but before.
Thank you for the confirmation Frank. I cannot take credit for the information, but I cannot reveal the source either. What I can say is in my research of LLDM, I have spoken with a few ex members who would prefer to remain anonymous.
July 16th, 2010 at 9:55 pm
What you said is absolutely truth Colin. My mother was “baptized” or renamed as you call it three times! The first one because she was submerged in the water by ministers ordained by Eusebio before his auto-baptism. The second because the minister that second-baptized her became a rebel in the splitting of LLDM in 1942. And the last one because it was discovered that the minister that tri-baptized her, even though was a man of vow of celibacy, was living in fornication. Therefore he was not in good standing to administer the “sacraments”.
What if its discovered that the last minister was in the same spot? Woud they baptize my mother again? This is a non-ending story.
I wonder what would happened to all the people I submerged in the waters when I was a deacon in good standing in LLDM? Are they going to be re-baptized because of my splitting from LLDM?
Is the power of sin’s forgiveness based on the conduct of the administrators or in the power of the sacrifice of Jesus? It’s a riot!
July 16th, 2010 at 3:28 pm
Some things that add to this fallacy:
For several years after his “calling”, Aaron Joaquin continued to attend the Apostolic Church of Faith in Christ Jesus, and had been baptized in that church “In the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.” He continued attending to keep learning how to run his own group from the church and especially it’s 2 “prophets” Saul and Silas. By then the church (not LLDM) had its convention in the city of Torreon. According to one of the first deacons who anointed Aaron, in 1931-32 LLDM raised money for “brother Aaron” to go to a convention in Torreon. This was not his first time attending the convention, Eusebio had been to Torreon for the convention at least 3 times prior to 1932. Of course the members of “The Light of the World” will not admit it and get upset when told they left the Apostolic Church of Faith in Christ Jesus, or that Aaron copied the Unitarian doctrine in the Church.
In these conventions, Aaron learned hymns and new songs to explain the copied doctrine to his followers in the meetings that were made by Abasolo Street in Guadalajara, in a barn near the barns of Oblates.
Little by little Aaron’s group became more independent, with its own temple on 46th Street No. 224. In 1939, Francisco Borrego, his former pastor, from Torreon invited him to join that year’s convention, but Aaron Joaquin, full of pride he said: “I do not want to belong to you, I’m going to wean.” It was then when he separated permanently from the northern groups to form his own congregation in Guadalajara, for by then he had forty followers. Subsequently, Aaron “consecrated” what is today the “ancient” temple of LLDM. This temple was consecrated with a “Holy Supper” on the night of December 31, 1939, and there began a fixed place of business or “Casa Grande” in “The Light of the world.”
Then again Aaron went with some preachers to Monterrey. Being in a discussion with a Baptist woman, reprimanding him for being “Trinitarian,” the woman said, “You pretend to be unitarian, but is in fact the Trinity, because this baptized in the name of the Holy Trinity. Remember that you named Saul and Silas. Well, they pronounced the Trinitarian formula almost in secret. If in doubt, go and ask. They are near the railway station. They will tell if I am telling the truth or if I’m spouting lies.”
Immediately Aaron Joaquin went to seek out Saul and Silas. He was told they were located near the old train station in Monterrey, where currently is the house of culture. He found them in some suburbs – sick, old and blind.
Aaron asked them: “Is it true that you baptized in the name of the Trinity?”. They answered, ‘Yes, and you are well named. Do not go thinking like some crazy people who are saying to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.”
Faced with this, he sent a telegram to his followers in Guadalajara, asking them to put in fasting and prayer because they were all in their crimes and sins.
On his return from Monterrey, Aaron chose some men who made a vow of chastity and was baptized by Figueroa and Prisciliano Lino Santos. Subsequently, the whole congregation was renamed.
For this reason the division of what they call the “false division” or “The Chemas” took place.
This division was something catastrophic, because whole families divided against each other, as may be verified in some media. Among them, the newspaper “The West” November and December 1942. During these months, “The West” informed the public as whole families were persecuted. They were ‘cut’, because they cut the communion. Indeed, nobody could talk under the threat that if they speak, they were excommunicated.
Following this, they say that “God spoke to him and revealed him to be baptized again, which made the July 18, 1943 when auto baptism, diving into the pool of water, after the baptism of the senior pastors, including Julian Zamora, Prisciliano Gonzalez and others. Later the congregation was renamed again to “true baptism” based on Acts 22:16 which states: “And now what you waiting for? Arise, be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling his name. ” This Biblical quote by Aaron was fallaciously called by the “revelation of baptism.”
Also, Aaron baptized himself because he claimed “there was no man alive “pure” enough to baptize Eusebio.”
Jesus is alive today, and He was alive in 1943. So this very quote means that Eusebio felt that not only was Christ’s baptism with the Holy Spirit and fire not good enough for him, but that he was more pure than Jesus Christ. This is a blasphemy if you really look at what he is saying.
LLDM Members, don’t you get it? Eusebio “Aaron” Joaquin was an Antichrist. “Anti” can mean against, but it can also mean “instead of”. Are you starting to see the bigger picture? He goes against the Christ by pretending to be the Christ. He wants people to follow Him instead of Christ.
“Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour.”(1 John 2:18)
July 16th, 2010 at 12:23 pm
As the 18th of July is approaching, the preparation for another “booster shot” of credulity in the myth of the “divine apostolic election” is on progress in LLDM.
Samuel will present to the new generation of believers in him a bunch of old timers that are taken in consideration only once a year to serve as involuntary an naive accomplices to the lies of “the apostle”. The rest of the year, nobody cares for them. Specially not the “apostle”.
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The fallacy works like this:
A group of seniors, many of them in wheelchair, will be requested to show dressed in white (symbol of purity) and with palm branches or white handkerchiefs in their hands(symbol of triumph) to bear witness of the “historical” event. They will be presented as true witness of the “revelation” to Eusebio Joaquin to baptize himself because there was no man alive “pure” enough to baptize Eusebio.
The fact that these seniors were there watching the event, only proves that Eusebio was so proud of himself and selfish that he do not wanted anybody to share his accomplishments, but this do not proves his “divine” origin and shows his further motivation.
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This event was performed just as a way to break Eusebio’s ties from his former church as others had proved in historical accounts.
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What a contrast with Jesus that being the Son of God, perfect in everything, was so humble to submit himself tho the ministry of John the Baptist!
July 14th, 2010 at 1:26 pm
One of the reasons LLDM members are even willing to put themselves in debt in order to make the trip to Guadalajara goes back to when Eusebio first consolidated the false “Lords Supper”.
When Eusebio’s “Lord’s Supper” was consolidated for the 14th of August, it was determined also for members everywhere to be going to Guadalajara to take the sacrament, since “everyone who does not take the Lord’s Supper in Guadalajara, if they die during the course of the year, they are doomed.”
July 14th, 2010 at 10:39 am
Sum,
That is one of the saddest aspects is that many equate letting people take advantage of them with being submissive to God.
Submitting to the will of man is not nearly the same as submitting to the will of God. In fact, when you submit to the will of God you will be vehemently opposed to the will of certain men, and will not let people take advantage of you unfairly because in the words of Simon Peter, you “must serve God rather than men.”
My prayers are with you sum, that her eyes may be opened.
July 13th, 2010 at 2:42 pm
dose any one know if the members of lLDM will be wearing white again? last year a friend of my mother in law went on a trip to see the apostil and on their way back the friend and his wife and family missed their train ride and so when he came back from the trip he accused my mother in law that it was all her fault and she had to pay him back for their trip. The said part about the whole thing is that she calles him hermano and really is that what you call a brother? I praid that some way some how her some thing would happen during the trip and he eyes would be opend but even with that it did not work and oveusly she is still being taken advantage of.
July 13th, 2010 at 11:45 am
That’s an affirmative, Frank.
Abel left Guadalajara shortly after Eusebio’s death in 1964 (some speculate he was fleeing for fear of his own life). In 1965, Abel Joaquín Avelar left the Light of the World “church” in Guadalajara, moved to Mexico City and founded his own organization, the Church of Jesus Christ (Iglesia de Jesucristo), which now has at least 22 organized “churches.” The leader of this denomination has taken the title “Apostle of the Church” and has an “Apostolic Council” composed of 12 members.
Another claim of apostleship? Well, LLDM members how do we know which one is truly the Apostle? Is it SJF or is it his half-brother Abel Joaquín Avelar?
How about neither one? Something like this should make it abundantly clear (if it wasn’t already) that both of their claims are nothing more than arrogant plays for wealth and power.
July 13th, 2010 at 11:23 am
Samuel Joaquin Flores is doing nothing else than following his father example and teachings and I’m not referring to the alleged “doctrines” of LLDM. I mean the use of influence, power and money to cover up the allegations of crimes against him.
In 1942, Eusebio Joaquín was in jail as result of the accusations of rape to a minor against him by one woman at his “service” called by the name of Guadalupe Avelar. Eusebio alleged that the accusation was false and used his political connections with the governor in charge Marcelino García Barragán and was released without further investigation.
This story is told in LLDM in a different way.
However, Guadalupe Avelar used to scape to Tapachula, a small city at the border with Guatemala. Out of Eusebio’s reach, Guadalupe gave birth to the offspring of Eusebio Joaquín. The name of this son fruit of the abuse that “never happened”, Abel Joaquín Avelar. Eusebio recognized him as biological son in 1959.
Now, Abel Joaquín has his own “church” inspired by the success of his half brother Samuel.
This is well known in LLDM but nobody cares.
July 13th, 2010 at 9:45 am
The following is a small portion taken from extensive research of LLDM done by Dr. Jorge Erdely and Dr. Lourdes Arguelles.
This is a description of some of the steps taken by SJF and LLDM to repair their public image after it was damaged by years-old accusations of both physical and sexual abuse finally becoming public in the late 1990’s, and also steps to maintain SJF’s immunity from the law amidst political changes in Mexico:
“During the period from 1998 to 2000, impunity continued to be the hallmark of LLDM’s alleged crimes, even if those crimes were committed under the rule of a different—and seemingly ideologically antagonistic—political force. The following years would see a parade of important local PAN politicians show up at LLDM’s main religious celebrations, such as the sect leader’s birthday. Guadalajara’s city mayor, for example, attended a special meal with Samuel Joaquín as recently as June 14, 2004. City Mayor Emilio González Márquez sat as guest of honor at Samuel’s table, together with local congressman Jorge Aristóteles and former PRI state governor Carlos Rivera Aceves, to commemorate the 67th birthday of the religious leader. Meanwhile, a multitude of followers wept and shouted praises to “God’s Anointed One” outside the same house where several young female victims claim to have been brutally sexually assaulted for years by the self-proclaimed apostle.
The yearly parade of politicians and authorities from main parties attending various religious festivities of LLDM in Guadalajara, where the center of attention is the exalted figure of a local cacique who claims to be divine, has paid off handsomely. At the local level, these associations have lent much-needed legitimacy to Samuel Joaquín’s figure in the view of many followers who have heard about their main leader’s alleged sexual crimes. After all, authorities, whether elected or appointed, do not usually dine with child rapists, and even less so at the very place of the alleged crime scene. Or do they?
Both the public display of seeming validation of Samuel’s character by a multiplicity of political figures, and the Jalisco state PAN authorities’ suspicious negligence to investigate the kidnapping of Moisés Padilla sent a strong, discouraging message to other LLDM ex-members, especially women, who were hopeful that the change of political rule would allow them to safely go public with their cases or seek justice through the justice system. Instead of relying on the justice system, many have opted to hand over relevant information and share their stories with local and international scholars and human rights organizations.”
For the politicians connected with LLDM who knowingly look the other way on SJF’s crimes:
I may not be a lobbyist, or some “religious gangster” with all kinds of money to stuff in your pocket, or brainwashed masses who I can convince to vote for you. I can only appeal to your conscious and tell you – Do the right thing. I can’t pay you in any way to do what’s right, so I’ll just leave this here hoping it somehow reaches SJF or his political bedfellows and you guys just go on doing whatever you want.
But one day you and SJF will each have to stand before God, and you will each be judged. And on that day there will be justice.
July 12th, 2010 at 10:25 pm
I don’t doubt that it isn’t anything new, Frank, it’s just another aspect that I’m beginning to learn more about.
LLDM has a long history of mixing religion with politics, and I believe that it’s the connections Eusebio had (and Samuel now has) with the government that affords their “apostle” practically carte blanche – never having to answer investigation by the authorities or face trial for the crimes he’s committed (despite several complaints already on file).
In 1943, General Marcelino Garcia Barragan (Eusebio’s former commanding officer when in the military) was elected governer of Jalisco under the flag of the PRI. “Hermano Aaron”, as he was later known, was helped a great deal by the PRI, and by the former general. In the late 1940’s, with considerable governmental favor, Aaron was able to purchase the 34-acre piece of land on the outskirts of Guadalajara which is now known as “Hermosa Provincia.” Many families in the area were economically desperate, and without land of their own. As a result of LLDM’s political ties with the PRI, “The Beautiful Colony” was able to provide several basic services which otherwise would not be available to the families in the area, and as a natural result, membership increased.
Many, if not most members of LLDM believe the rate of growth of LLDM is a sign of their “apostle’s” authenticity. Despite that being a logical fallacy, one can also easily infer that the growth and expansion they have experienced is not a result of any miracles from God. It is because of political connections, mind control tactics, superficial (fake) love, and fear mongering.
This is indeed merely just my assertion, but I feel that it is accurate.
July 12th, 2010 at 9:47 pm
You’re very assertive Colin,
The picture in which Samuel Joaquín is rubbing elbows with the political establishment of Guadalajara on the “Grand Political Night” of every June 9th. is nothing new.
When SJF “inaugurated” (I can’t say it was a dedication to the Lord) the new franchise of LLDM in Houston Tx., he invited with all the expenses covered, the then Mayor of Guadalajara and later Governor of Jalisco, Emilio González Márquez. They came out from the “Little Parthenon” in the back of the megachurch, the residence of “the apostle” to cut the inaugural ribbon at the doors of the temple. This guy later on April 24, 2008, during a dinner party at the Expo-Guadalajara, he gave another MXN$15 million to the Catholic Church, represented by cardinal Juan Sandoval Iñiguez, Archbishop of Guadalajara. Do you believe that he was with SJF because of his admiration to the doctrines in LLDM? I don’t think so.
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This reminded me of the companions of Jesus Christ, fishermen, ex-tax collectors and farmers. What a big contrast, what a tremendous difference!
I remember an anecdote in which the Pope of Rome was looking at his treasures and exclaimed with sarcasm: “I can’t say as Peter said -I have not gold or silver!” A wise and brave observer exclaimed: “Yeah, but you can’t say either -Stand up and walk!-
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The same happened to SJF, he can walk side by side with the powerful of this world, but Jesus wouldn’t dare to stand a second by his side!
July 12th, 2010 at 4:51 pm
The “Santa Cena” of LLDM is getting closer, but few within the church actually realize that this celebration on August 14th truly has absolutely nothing with the Lord’s Supper nor proclaiming the Lord’s death until He comes.
To quote Frank Medina:
“In reality, it is just a show for the Mexican society to see the social power and religious cohesion of thousands of brainwashed people for the political and economical gain of the Joaquin family.
You can see how Samuel Joaquin shows off his masses to the political establishment in Guadalajara to perpetuate his influence and immunity from the law.”
Yes, you can see this. In fact right now on luzdelmundo.net, you can find large pictures of SJF walking with Aristoteles Sandoval Diaz – the mayor of Guadalajara (almost looks like they’re walking hand-in-hand).
I guarantee Mr. Diaz has no faith in SJF for his eternal salvation, he is purely interested in gaining voter support from the masses of manipulated and deceived souls who follow SJF, and in exchange the authorities will continue to look the other way when it comes to SJF’s atrocious criminal activity.
“you scratch my back, I’ll scratch yours”
July 8th, 2010 at 7:27 am
Coline,
God’s blessing to you for your wonderful comparison. I re-read Gen 19 and it is amazing to read it with that in mind! What a wonderful opportuinity to have a Jewish-Christian friend who has been raised in with the eyes of a Hewbrew.
Sum brought up the point of SJF and children and it brought to my mind an observation that I recently had. A few weeks ago the local congregations had their baptisms/presentations and at this one there was 4 new members. I say new loosly becuase they were all the 14 year children of adult members and this got me thinking. Over the past 7 years that I have regularly attending this particular congregation I figure that around 30 “new” members have been added to the roll-call, but what is amazing is that I can only recall one person out of that 30+ coming from “the world” into membership with LLDM the rest have all been the children of current members with the children becoming badges of honor for the parants.
My the peace of our Lord find all of you well and blessed.
July 7th, 2010 at 1:21 pm
one of these days there will be no children for the fake apostle to reproduce to crown the new king. Some way some how the Chane has to be broken. I wish the fake apostle from LLDM would just not show up at all but I bet you they would still take the trip with money that they all had to barrow.
July 7th, 2010 at 1:17 pm
Christopher,
That is very sad to hear. But, it is not too surprising either, because as Paul said a vail covers their hearts. That vail is done away in Christ, and when a person turns their heart to God, the vail is removed:
“But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.”(2 Corinthians 3:15-16)
What this means is that when a person turns their heart to God – they will begin to see Jesus Christ in every page of the Old Testament.
I know this to be true, because I have a Jewish friend who was raised in strict Judaism. A few years back, he became a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ, and ever since he has been able to point out to me many fascinating parallels between Jesus Christ in the New Testament, and the events/types/symbols in the Old Testament that most people miss.
He pointed one out to me from that same chapter that I would like to share with all of you.
It is a parallel between the events in Exodus 19, and the coming rapture of the church.
This is one of the most intriguing parallels between Moses and Jesus. The trumpet of God and an audible voice are present at both events and both events create a kingdom.
At Mt. Sinai the Israelites were redeemed from slavery, at the Rapture we will be redeemed from sin.
They were consecrated, we will be perfected.
They washed their clothes, we will be given clean clothes.
God came to the mountaintop, Jesus comes to the air.
At Mt. Sinai Moses and Aaron went up, at the rapture we will go up.
At Mt. Sinai Israel was wed to God. At the Rapture, the Church is wed to Jesus.
At Mt. Sinai God dwelt with Israel and at the rapture the Church dwells with Jesus.
Compare Exodus 19:10-25 & 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17. There is a view that when God sent the ram for Abraham to sacrifice instead of Isaac, He saved the two horns to be used as shofars. He blew the left one (the first trump) in Exodus 19 in preparation for the giving of the Law, and will blow the right one (the last trump) in 1 Thessalonians 4:16 to initiate the Rapture.
July 7th, 2010 at 8:19 am
While attending a regular “pep talk” at the LLDM church last night the subject of the week has been the usual during the being of the “Cleansing” time for LLDM members to get ready for the “Holy Supper” and mind you it has nothing to do with the true intent of what the Holy Supper is. The pep talk was about how God could not talk to the Israelites, while in the desert at the foot of Mount Sinai (Geneses 19:9), with out Moses being there. (The doctrine that God is powerless to talk to His creation with one of his creatures (a man of God) to talk to his other creatures (mankind).
During the pep talk I read and re-read this chapter to determine if this is truly what was being stated in the Scripture. The answer is no. All that is stated is that Moses was to prepare the Israelites for God to talk directly to them which He does by declaring the 10 commandments to them Himself. The Israelites were scared of God’s powerful voice and told Moses that they only want to hear of God’s words through him and not from God directly.
All of the pep talking as well as this passage was to support this statement made during the pep talk.
“There is no point of going to Guadalajara if Samuel Joaquin is not there because it (Holy Supper) has no meaning without him there.”
So much for the ultimate Power and ultimate Authority of the Lord Jesus Christ in the hearts of LLDM.
July 7th, 2010 at 12:02 am
Oh! If just the walls of “La Casa Grande” and “Jerico 775″ would talk about what they have been witnessing throughout the years, not a single “seal of apostleship” would remain faithful!
If all the “Nenas Bravo”, “Magdas Padilla”, “Marthas”, “Sarays”, “Anas Medina”, “Marias de Los Angeles”, “Ñoñas”, “Bachis”, “Abilinias Pedraza”, “Jaels Chanez”, “Emilys Ricarte”, “Febes Diaz”, etc. would be brave enough to denounce all the atrocities of the “apostle” of corruption Samuel Joaquín Flores, he would be behind bars enjoying the fruits of his own sins.
July 6th, 2010 at 11:44 pm
That is the strongest of the fallacies tought in LLDM to perpetuate the control of the masses by the “apostolic dynasty” of the Joaquin Family.
Isn’t preposterous their claim that the only “authorized” to proclaim the great commission of the Gospel are Aarón and Samuel Joaquín? A deserter soldier and a metro-sexual truck driver!
I believe that God uses the most unusual people for his purposes but they change for better after God’s calling.
However the most solid proof of their falsity is precisely the way Aarón lived and died and the way Samuel lives, surrounded by luxury and living in a sybaritic life style.
And after 84 years of their supposed “election” haven’t proved yet what they claim to be. The elevation o another member of the Joaquin Family to the “apostolic” chair will be the best proof of their falsity.
July 6th, 2010 at 6:43 am
Amen Mary,
Very well stated. Just 1 thing I want to add about the great commission.
“Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”"(Matthew 28:19-20)
This is part of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Jesus’ charge was for them to preach the Gospel to the entire world, so that would include this. We’re not allowed to choose which parts of the Gospel are for us, and which were just for the Apostles.
In fact, take a second look at what Jesus said here:
“….and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you….”
If He commanded them to make disciples, and we are to obey everything He commanded them, then we also must obey His command to make disciples.
July 5th, 2010 at 11:50 pm
My brother in-law stated one time that Billy Graham’s ministry was all in vain because he was not called by God. He also said Mother theresa work was in vain because she was not called by God either. Now remember LLDM does not teach that the Great Commission applies to all christians but to the apostles. However I see Jesus teaching something different. I mean he gives us examples of Samaritans doing the right things over the so called chosen ones. God is no respector of persons. I mean look at the apostles. tax collector, fisherman, a coward(Peter), Paul who persecuted murderous threats towards christians, a doctor. Even Moses had an anger issue. So let me say the church was not founded on any apostle. Jesus Christ is what changes lives. The church has always been here because Jesus is the Rock. Nothing will prevail over it.
My husband believes my faith is weak because I happen to like to different churches. I was brought up in Calvary Chapel Chino Hills. But I also like going to a local community church nearby. He sees this as a weakness. I said but these two churches have the same statements of beliefs. I challenged him. I said go to calvary chapel chino hills website read what they believe. Then go to the other church. u will see they have same core beliefs but do things a little different. God has made us all different but we are united in Christ. The true Jesus that is. These churches do not claim exclusivenes by claiming they are only true church. they will always point to Jesus Christ and Him crucified and ressurected. God never wanted us to be legalistic robots. He wanted us to love Him first and to love others. If we would only do this we will see that God chose us if we would only believe in Jesus and serve Him. So he doesn’t care what church or apostle or pastor we have so as long as they preach the true Jesus and His gospel according to the scriptures. I will close with 1 John 2:And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. Sorry LLDM but the whole world means everyone not just your church.
July 5th, 2010 at 12:49 pm
To all who are in Christ Jesus, the following is an outline of some of the main issues we are facing in trying to witness to members of LLDM:
The first is the Love-Hate dimension. It could also be labeled Unconditional Love vs Paranoid Thinking. The key test is the question “How do they treat their enemies?’
A paranoid group goes from suspicion to suspicion, living in fear and employing “guilt by association” to mark people as those to beware of. SJF and therefore LLDM is preoccupied with its fortress mentality, its thought that life is disproportionately centred around warding off evil rather than pursuing good.
While guarding against sin and compromise is an essential part of the Christian life, being paranoid is not! Jesus was sinless – but He still loved His enemies and prayed for those who persecuted Him.
The second dimension is that of wisdom versus foolishness. Another name for it might be “love of the truth wherever it can be found” vs “creation of an authoritarian and idiosync ratic reality”.
LLDM believes they have a monopoly on Truth, but creates their own, often quite idiosynratic “reality”. LLDM tends to create an untestable, unverifiable “world of their own”, and abound in bizarre conspiracy theories, quaint world-views, mystical and other-worldly perspectives.
While the man or woman of faith will sometimes see life very differently they do not disregard the insights of others. The fool says “my system is all I need”. In LLDM and other bizarre religious sects there is no searching for objective Truth , rather there is a loud and clamant glorying in one’s own “wisdom”.
Such people are among those that bombard the Internet with posts all in “caps” and full of strange sounding jargon that sets you on edge when you read it. Their claims are often untestable as they may be set in the future or in dreams or visions that the reader has no way of verifying. When their claims can be checked out, they generally prove to be inaccurate.
LLDM limits the outside information available to recruits and enmeshes them in this alternate reality. It is only the quest for objective truth that causes some recruits to question and finally to leave LLDM.
The third dimension is that of mercy versus cruelty. These terms are quite accurate in my view. All you need to do to be cruel is to think exclusively of yourself. People in LLDM don’t “hate” their families in general – they just do not see them, care for them, or meet their needs if they to not believe in SJF claims.
Some develop a very inward form of thinking where the recruit spends most of their time either working for LLDM or pondering their own deficiencies. This phenomenal self-absorption can cause parents to neglect their children. LLDM neglects the needs of the outer world and their social action programs are practically non-existent. Where they do exist they tend to focus on members or to be thinly disguised recruiting mechanisms.
The “mainline churches” are extensively involved on caring for those outside of their membership and many of the best hospitals, schools and rehabilitation programmes are run by them. Though LLDM is large and wealthy, their contribution in these areas is small indeed and mostly for profit.
Lets consider applying these models to three “real life” people – Hitler, Jim Jones and David Koresh. All had well-defined “enemies” which they guarded against and were pre-occupied with. They were characterised by paranoid thinking on dimension one.
On the dimension of wisdom versus foolishness, though all were quite clever and manipulative people, they were not “wise”. They all had their own reality that they followed in total disregard of objective Truth and biblical wisdom.
On the dimension of mercy versus cruelty – mercy is about the last thing we assocaite with thier names! All three score strongly on the dimension of cruel disregard of others. All three men eventually caused the death of themselves and their followers. Whether it be Hitler, Jim Jones or David Koresh when we examine their attitude using this model they are all at the dangerous end.
To test the model on “positive” religious figures, examine Jesus, St Francis of Assisi, and Billy Graham. All three are loving people and, though they all experienced intense public criticism, they all weathered it without rancour.
They are noted for forgiving their enemies.
On the wisdom/foolishness dimension, while each had strong life-dominating calls, there was no disregard for truth. Jesus as a child sat with the Rabbis in the temple, St Francis submitted to the tecahings of the Catholic Church and Billy Graham stands squarely in the middle of mainstream evangelicalism.
All three had a gentle wisdom from God not a noisy clamour from the self. And mercy is something we assocaite immediately with Jesus and St Francis and also to some extent with Billy Graham. They bless people. Jesus died for others. They helped the poor. They were utterly self-giving.
This model places them diamterically opposite that of SJF and LLDM!
So by using this model we see that a group like LLDM may be Christian in name, but in nature it can be shown to the polar opposite of “true Christianity” as exemplified by Jesus, St Francis and Billy Graham.
July 5th, 2010 at 12:03 pm
LLDM Members, this is one of the major reasons I encourage you to read all of the Bible for yourself, and that is the story of Eusebio’s “calling” is pretty much copied from Old Testament stories.
He claims he heard a voice saying “your name will be Aaron”
This is copied from Abram:
“No longer will you be called Abram; your name will be Abraham, for I have made you a father of many nations.”(Genesis 17:5)
He claims his wife did not hear the voice, which signified the voice was from God.
This is copied from Samuel (1 Samuel 3:1-21)
Even the name “Aaron” is copied from Moses’ brother
“Then the LORD’s anger burned against Moses and he said, “What about your brother, Aaron the Levite? I know he can speak well. He is already on his way to meet you, and his heart will be glad when he sees you.”(Exodus 4:14)
If his “calling” and revelation were unique and authentic, why would there be so many elements of it that are just copies?
July 4th, 2010 at 1:20 pm
A thought just occurred to me which I would like to add, and that is this – Every Christian is an apostle. Are we equal to the Biblical Apostles? No, we can’t perform miracles nor add any Scripture to the Bible, but as Christians we are sent forth to continue bringing the Gospel to the world.
“Apostle” means “One sent forth.”
Jesus is said to be the “Apostle whom we confess” (Hebrews 3:1) because He was the “One sent forth” by God the Father to atone for our sins.
Jesus selected 12 men (+Paul) as the “Ones sent forth” to preach the good news to the world, and they established the Christian faith by writing 27 letters outlining the truth of Christian Faith.
These 12+1 men sent forth others (Timothy, Mark, Titus, the elders in Ephesus, etc.) to continue preaching the Word of God.
I have printed several posts by other authors here for personal reference and study. And if I die before the Lord Jesus returns to this earth, I have a feeling that in 100 years or so, somebody will find those printouts and think that Christopher, Oscar, Alberto, Mary, and others here were Apostles of Jesus Christ.
The difference is none of us would dare say we are equivalent to the Biblical Apostles, LLDM claims that SJF is equal and even better than them.
July 4th, 2010 at 12:18 pm
well said Colin.
July 4th, 2010 at 12:16 pm
Anna
do you read the bible at all? do you know what faith is? you can not just have faith in a piece of wood or just any man. Faith should be in God and Jesus died for us on the cross that is who we are suppose to have faith in. And sorry but I can not have faith in an apostle that changes the word of God to his own greedy needs. You may not know the truth about the apostle because everything around you looks good but believe me, I have see thing that he dose that is just not good and there are more than a thousands people that know that the Apostle from LLDM dose a lot of bad things to people and God is good not bad.
July 4th, 2010 at 12:16 pm
My faith is firmly in the Lord Jesus Christ alone, and I surely do understand what that means. If a person does not have their faith in the Lord Jesus Christ alone, their faith is not based on the Bible. I encourage you to read the Bible yourself, Anna, and test the teachings of SJF and LLDM. The whole Bible from Genesis to Revelation testifies about Jesus Christ, so if your faith is based on the Bible – it will be faith in the Resurrected Christ and not in any apostle. We are not to have faith in any man:
“This is what the LORD says:
“Cursed is the one who trusts in man,
who depends on flesh for his strength
and whose heart turns away from the LORD.”(Jeremiah 17:5)
It truly saddens me when someone does not understand this. How can have faith in SJF(a man) and tell someone else they don’t understand their faith? The reality is you don’t understand that faith in a man is a curse in itself. So sad I could cry.
“Hey daddy, tell me why the clown is crying? Well, son he’s got the task of cheering up the ill and dying. On top of that everyone thinks he’s insane, can’t fathom why he’d wanna ease their pain”
-Atmosphere “Sad Clown.”
Anna,
When Samuel dies, one of his sons will be announced as the new apostle. All LLDM members will scoff at that and say that “no one knows who the next apostle will be.” Ok, wait and see.
But no matter who LLDM announces as the new “apostle” when that happens, I want you to know that we have no need for an apostle on earth to act as high priest and intercede/mediate for our sins. Why? Well, for starters, apostles are merely human like you or me. They have their own sins they need to be forgiven for, so it is a damnable lie to say they can intercede for anyone else.
And secondly because they are mortal, they will die and a new one would have to be appointed in their place. But Jesus was without sin. He already died once and rose from the grave, and His priesthood will never end because He is alive forever.
“The former priests, on the one hand, existed in greater numbers because they were prevented by death from continuing, but Jesus, on the other hand, because He continues forever, holds His priesthood permanently. Therefore He is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.
For it was fitting for us to have such a high priest, holy, innocent, undefiled, separated from sinners and exalted above the heavens; who does not need daily, like those priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for his own sins and then for the sins of the people, because this He did once for all when He offered up Himself.”(Hebrews 7:23-27)
That is why it is not possible for the church to have completely disappeared. Because even when the apostles died, Jesus was still alive and ready to intercede for and save the faithful left (such as Timothy, Titus, Mark, etc.). And Jesus lives forever, which means He has been there non-stop to forgive, strengthen, build up and change the lives of whoever comes to Him by faith.
I pray that you will remember this passage from Hebrews on that day, and will not have to adjust your faith to believe in LLDM’s newest “apostle”.
July 4th, 2010 at 11:12 am
Anna
It dose not seem like you know what you are suppose to have faith in. The bible says to have faith in God in Jesus not in an apostle. I have faith that God will answer my prayers is a good example of faith. Not I have faith in this man. We are not suppose to have faith in an apostle but Jesus who died for us on the cross.
July 4th, 2010 at 8:59 am
I “don’t recognize my own faith”? Can you elaborate?
July 3rd, 2010 at 4:34 pm
I go to this church and i feel very sad that you don’t recognize your own faith!
July 3rd, 2010 at 10:48 am
lit bit
if you truly believe that the apostle from LLDM is an angel then he is one fallen angel with sin and greed in his life. A perfect angel dose not try to take glory from God. A perfect angel of God dose not take money from poor widows. A perfect angel dose not change the truth of the bible and use millions of people for his own slaves. A perfect angel dose not rape women of their innocence and that is who your apostle is and more that is not even mentioned. In the bible it says that we go threw Jesus and not any one else to get to God. We are suppose to be Baptiste only in the name of Jesus and when LLDM tells you that you have to believe that the apostle is sent from God it is a sin, no apostle, no angel, not even the mother of God on earth is worthy to save sins but Jesus alone.
July 2nd, 2010 at 11:38 pm
“…If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” [John 8:31-32]
For the sake of our growth in the faith and our development of discernment, we must “hold to” the teachings of God’s word. “Hold to,” or “continue” (KJV) means to submit to Christ’s teachings, to abide in them (i.e., to let our mental, physical and spiritual life be governed by them), and to remain in them, becoming steadfast in the faith. If we do this, then we are His disciples, we will know the truth, and will be set free by the truth.
A while ago, I was told by a LLDM pastor to stop asking so many questions (even though my questions remain unanswered) because I was “causing division in the church”. Well, maybe I’m supposed to! After all, there are two things that cause division according to the Bible: truth and error.
Haven’t you heard the scripture,
“Do you suppose I came to grant peace on earth? I tell you, no, rather division!”
That’s right! Jesus said that…
“from now on five members in one household will be divided three against two, and two against three” (Luke 12:51-52).
Hard words to hear! Yet, harder to accept. But, that’s what Jesus said and is preserved in the Holy Scriptures. He said that whole families would be divided over Him. And there are many occasions in the New Testament when whole assemblies of people were divided because of Jesus (John 7:43, 9:16, 10:19, Acts 23:6-7).
Does Jesus want families and people to be divided? No! He does want to unite them all to Himself. But His point is this – if TRUTH is going to be what divides you from your household or your spiritual family in a group (LLDM, for example), then it’s better to be divided and stand on the TRUTH of the Holy Bible than to compromise the TRUTH and go along with your family/friends who continue in rebellion against God’s Word (The Holy Bible).
How is the truth compromised in LLDM? Read the Bible, you will see.
How do people become fooled into accepting a false gospel? (not just in LLDM, but in hundreds maybe thousands of false religions, false churches, cults, isms, and schisms worldwide)?? Simple – they don’t read the Bible. Most people are willing to accept whatever they are told as Biblical Truth, but are not too interested in checking it out in the Bible themselves to make sure.
The Lord Jesus Christ, as a man, was the most anti-religious person to ever walk this earth and He Himself said He came to cause division. If I am causing division by simply asking questions (which no one can answer) and encouraging people to read the Bible themselves then praise God because I am holding to the teachings of my Master.
July 2nd, 2010 at 10:07 pm
“Lil Bit”,
According to the history of La Luz Del Mundo, God used a certain man to “restore” the New Testament church of Jesus Christ in 1926. But, in Matthew 16, Jesus said “I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hell will not overpower it.”(Matthew 16:18). Jesus said the very gates of hell would not overpower His church. So, where was the New Testament church before 1926? And where was the truth it was responsible for teaching? Please be detailed and give specific Bible references.
I have attended several services at LLDM and I have spoken to many members and pastors of LLDM and this is a question that so far none of them have been able to answer within the context of the Bible. Can you?
Also, Lil bit, since you say “but i know thier is no better church or truthfull church then the one i belong to LA LUZ DEL MUNDO”
No more truthful church? Then would you be so kind as to tell us – what is your source for truth? Is it what the Bible itself actually says? Or is it SJF and LLDM interpretation of what the Bible means?
July 2nd, 2010 at 8:47 pm
Is it just me, or do the following 2 statements of faith by LLDM flat out contradict eachother?
“Creen en la Santa Biblia como única y suficiente regla de fe para la salvación del ser humano.”
and
“Creen en la Elección Divina de los Siervos de Dios, enviados para manifestar la voluntad de Dios y la Salvación.”
Translation:
“They believe in the Holy Bible as the only and sufficient rule of faith for salvation of human beings.”
and
“They believe in the Divine Election of the Servants of God, sent to express the will of God and Salvation.”
If the Holy Bible is the “only and sufficient rule of faith for salvation of human beings”, then the Holy Bible itself is what expresses the will of God and Salvation. But if Servants of God are Divinely Elected and sent forth as a means to express the will of God and Salvation, then the Holy Bible is not the “only and sufficient rule of faith.”
So, which is it? The 2 statements above contradict eachother so you cannot believe both at the same time.
July 2nd, 2010 at 4:18 pm
i am from this church i belive dat who ever had the time to do all this should really take the time and actually go in our church do not say of what u hear say of what u know la luz del mundo is a church that i belive in and have great faith in thank god he put our apostel 0f god . . . what more can i say …. sooo much but i know thier is no better church or truthfull church then the one i belong to LA LUZ DEL MUNDO
July 2nd, 2010 at 2:45 pm
Hallelujah, Mary!
What a wonderful story, my heart was touched reading that.
A great many people (myself included) could learn a lot of things from an innocent child with a pure heart such as that, about receiving God’s grace and mercy openly and freely.
July 2nd, 2010 at 12:39 pm
My kindergartener wanted some paper to draw a few days ago. I gave him paper and his crayons. He came to me and said, “Look mom it is Jesus when he was on the cross” sure enough I looked at it and the drawing showed arms laid out. I told him to write what he drew.(he does this writing skill at school). so he comes back and it reads “Jesas He is Gob” remind you he is only 6 so his spelling is off. He said Jesus he is god. I said you are right. Is it not beautiful the child like faith that the bible talks about. They are more right than some of the intellectuals of the world.
Praise God!
July 1st, 2010 at 7:42 pm
A little more perspective for those who think “Apostle” Samuel is a perfect, flawless man who never sins.
Consider this – Samuel Joaquin Flores is a sinner.
“for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”(Romans 3:23)
See that – ‘ALL have sinned’…ALL includes SJF, so therefore SJF is a sinner. Now, I didn’t say that – who am I to call anyone a sinner? I didn’t say that, Paul did. And it was the Holy Spirit speaking through Paul when he wrote that. I have not prattled off my opinions of anyone, like I have seen some do, I have merely given something directly from the Word of God.
Samuel Joaquin Flores is a sinner, period. And SJF cannot save anyone because his sin makes him imperfect and he himself is in need of grace and mercy from the Lord Jesus Christ just as much as anyone else.
Now, if you have a problem with me saying that he is a sinner – remember that I didn’t say that, it’s in God’s Word. So if you think SJF is not a sinner, I’m afraid you can’t take your argument up with me.
If you don’t think SJF is a sinner in need of a Savior just like the rest of us are, then you have to take the 23rd verse of Romans chapter 3, and you have to say “God, you’re wrong.”
Are you willing to do that?
July 1st, 2010 at 6:53 pm
A little something to try to put things in perspective. Please read all the way to the end or this might not make much sense.
For those who think “Apostle” Samuel is a perfect, flawless man who never sins, please consider the following:
Would you hire this preacher?
“I am over 50 years old. In my youth, I was sinful, hateful and committed acts of violence. But I am changed now. I have been preaching the Gospel for almost my whole adult life. Most of the churches I helped start were very small, and I have never stayed at any 1 church for more than 3 years. I don’t keep very good records, and I often forget who I have baptized. I am very sickly and I have to bring a personal physician with me wherever I go. And I must also confess I have been in prison a few times, but never for any serious offenses. And I would like to come and be your preacher, would you hire me?”
For those of you who said yes, congratulations! You just hired a wonderful preacher who will reveal many wonderful mysteries to you from the Word of God.
For those of you who said no – guess what? You just turned down the Apostle Paul.
June 30th, 2010 at 12:40 pm
Amen Colin
And to add to that, John the baptist said that he is preparing the way for Jesus and that he only baptizes by water but the coming Jesus will Baptize with fire.
June 30th, 2010 at 9:51 am
Cesia,
What are your questions?
I find it interesting that you said you were born into this “religion”. The interesting thing about that word “religion” is it’s really not a Bible word. It’s only used about 6 times in the entire New Testament. And actually the word “religion” comes from a Greek root word which means “to bind back” or “to hold back”. And the book of James tells us a lot about having a “pure religion”:
“If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless.
Pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world.”(James 1:26-27).
Now, is that the “religion” of LLDM? I truly don’t think so.
But what are your questions, Cesia? I have asked several questions in this forum that none of LLDM’s followers have been able to answer. Nor any LLDM pastors when I asked them in person have been able to answer.
So, I would also like to ask you some questions, Cesia, and I do hope you will get back to me.
According to the history of La Luz Del Mundo, God used a certain man to “restore” the New Testament church of Jesus Christ in 1926. But, in Matthew 16, Jesus said “I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hell will not overpower it.”(Matthew 16:18). Jesus said the very gates of hell would not overpower His church. So, where was the New Testament church before 1926? And where was the truth it was responsible for teaching? Please be detailed and give specific Bible references.
June 29th, 2010 at 11:22 pm
My family is born into this religion just like i am, i have a couple questions to ask you
so if you can please get back to me that would be great. I really need your help on this please..
thank you
-Cesia
June 28th, 2010 at 8:06 pm
ABY,
Your comments are a little vague, so I’m still not 100% sure as to your view. It does seem like you recognize the teachings of LLDM as false, which they are. But I still feel I should point out some things from what you wrote:
“did you know going to church is part of Moises law,”
Well, no I don’t think it was, Moses had no knowledge of the church, and even more – we are not under the Mosaic Law anymore, we are under grace. I would ask you to show me where going to church is commanded in the Old Testament, but I already know it’s not there. Although religious gatherings were commanded, they were not centered around the death, burial, and Resurrection of Jesus Christ because it hadn’t happened yet at that time. They were purely Jewish, so the church is rooted in Judaism. But the Jews are not the church and the church is not the Jews. God has promised different things to each group, but the 2 joined together – Jews and the Jewish/Gentile Church – make up the totality of God’s people.
The first mention of the church is not until the New Testament, in Paul’s letter to the Galatians, but we later found out from the Gospel of Matthew that the Lord Jesus Christ was the first one to use the term.
The term is actually ‘ecclesia’ which means “the called out”, it was transliterated (not translated – transliterated) into the word “church”(”Iglesia” in Spanish) later and left in in 1611 by the translators of the King James Bible. Christ didn’t really say “on this rock I will build my ‘church’”, what He actually said was “On this rock, I will build My called out”, He didn’t say “church”, He said “called out”, because He for 2,000 years He has been calling out a people from all nations to His name.
“having a temple was also part of it,”
Having a temple was part of it. But the interesting thing is that Moses never saw a temple built (He never even entered into the promised land), a tabernacle (tent) was used for the gathering place during Moses’ days. The temple was not constructed until many years later under Solomon.
“why was steven killed? was it cause of a temple idolatry?”
Stephen was martyred really because of wicked men who were jealous of the wisdom Stephen had received from the Holy Spirit; Stephen spoke the truth, and the world hated him for it. In a way, you could argue it was because of temple idolatry, because the religious leaders were so offended when Stephen told them that God does not live in houses built by men.
“lldm revelation is baptism, is false..”
The baptism of LLDM is false for many reasons. First of all, they say you need to be baptized in order to be saved. But the Bible does not say that we need to be baptized in order to be saved (trust me though – once you are saved, you will want to be baptized).
Secondly, they say you need to be baptized by them before you can receive the Holy Spirit. But the Bible clearly documents cases of multitudes of people receiving the Holy Spirit before they were baptized (and/or in some cases before and WITHOUT water baptism).
And Lastly, the procedure by which LLDM baptizes seems very dangerous spiritually. Before you are baptized in LLDM, you do not confess out loud that “Jesus is Lord and I depend only on the Risen Christ for forgiveness of all my sins, and to deliver me to God.” Instead, you confess something more like “I believe in Christ’s sacrifice for my sins, but I also believe an apostle named Samuel forgives me for my sins and I depend on Samuel, who I believe really is an apostle, to bring me to God.”
The “revelation” of LLDM is baptism, but the baptism of LLDM is false.