La Luz Del Mundo: A Church Founded on Lies
I find it painful and rather bothersome how masses can be brainwashed with lies and deceit, how some twisted individuals take advantage of people’s genuine faith in God by making them believe they are messiahs. I grow weary of false prophets and religious establishments founded on lies. You, as the reader, tell me: is it right for Christianity to be spread if the church’s foundation is based on lies? Personally, I think Christianity can spread with integrity, slowly but surely, without false prophets starting churches at every corner.
There is this particular church in mind called La Luz del Mundo, which translates directly to English as The Light of the World. It is a Christian denomination church headquartered in my father’s hometown of Guadalajara, Jalisco in Mexico. The church claims to be the largest non-Catholic Church in all of Latin America, and its main church, in Guadalajara, can accommodate approximately 12,000 worshipers. The Light of the World has about 5 million members in about 40 countries. All this information is all good and all, the problem lies in its foundation.
My father and his family have long tidings with this church, as most of his siblings and his parents (my grandparents) belonged or continue to belong to this church. He knows the inner workings of the church from close range and saw things that made him refuse to be a member of it. Needless to say, my father is the most ethical man I know, and if he saw wrong, then there was something wrong. He was enveloped in this church practically since birth. Since he is not a member of the church, his own siblings turned their back on him, preferring their religious brothers and sisters than their own blood. They never call to even say hello. My grandparents on my Dad’s side were never like that. Heck, my grandfather was eventually disillusioned and refused the position of pastor in his later years. An uncle, one that is not a member of this church, recently told me this about The Light of the World : “Those people are disrespectful and hypocrites”.
The church was started by a man named Aaron Joaquin Gonzales who (like Paul who encountered Jesus on the road to Damascus and was instructed to go as an apostle to the gentiles) was also called on as an apostle in 1926 in Monterrey, Mexico. This made him apostle #14, after Paul and the twelve original apostles. Aaron Joaquin Gonzales thus began to preach this new church and began to have many followers by making them believe he was “appointed” by God himself to “restore the church of Jesus Christ”. Like many churches, this church is no different in that it has evolved into a money-hungry establishment. Aaron Joaquin was revered as a deity, God on earth mentality by his followers. He passed away on June 9, 1964, and as it is common, his son, Samuel Joaquin Flores, took control of the church afterwards. It has been this man who has expanded The Light of the World to its current state and continues to serve as the director of the church. Here is the catch: He is also an apostle, on the same terms as Paul, Thomas, Peter, and the others! He is apostle #15, after his father of course, and according to his 5 million followers. I have never heard of an apostle passing down the powers of apostleship to his son but it happened here.
The only good thing I see about this church is that it introduces people to Christ and the Bible. That is the only thing. People are bred into the church and arranged marriages are not uncommon. Every year, on August 14, wherever people of the congregation may be, they must travel to Guadalajara to pay homage to the apostle of Jesus Christ. It used to be that people would kiss his hand and place their tithe in a large jar next to him. Nowadays, it is no longer required to kiss his hand. Samuel Joaquin is, of course, filthy rich. Brainwashing ignorant masses can make you so, tax free. It will be very interesting to see if they were the 14th and 15th apostles in reality. 
1,636 Responses to “La Luz Del Mundo: A Church Founded on Lies”
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May 12th, 2010 at 4:31 pm
Christopher,
Your very welcome…
***Question: Why does LLDM then openly teach that no can receive forgiviness from their sins, be baptized and receive salvation if they are not under SFJ authority?***
In order to receive Jesus Christ, you need receive him who he sent. Mathew 10:40, Luke 10:16
Romans 10:15… Who was authorized to preach? His apostles… who was given the ministry of reconciliation? 2 Corinthians 5:18 his apostles…
***Question: What sets SJF a part from the many other modern-day apostles that are in the world today, and even before Aaron was alive?***
The doctrine he preaches…
May 12th, 2010 at 4:21 pm
Mary,
***By the way John 6:29- Your church teaches that this verse is talking about Samuel J. and the other apostles.***
John 6:29 does refer to Jesus. Jesus does send his apostles just like his Father sent him.
John 17:18. As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world.
Now Mary if you believe that Jesus is God (the Father) then John 6:29 “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent” would apply to someone who Jesus sends… Who does Jesus send? Answer right above.
May 12th, 2010 at 2:58 pm
David, the checks and balance thing was used as an example. And to say you are beginning to think Colin is a Mormon whatever I could say you are beginning to sound like a seventh Day adventist. Who by the way also believe they are the only true church and who also say the church was lost or hidden. And believe they are restoring the primitive church.
By the way John 6:29- Your church teaches that this verse is talking about Samuel J. and the other apostles.
Well it is speaking of Jesus. Huge difference.
What happened to those died before christ? Abrahams bosom. not soul sleep.
And by the way God uses many people to preach His word. What about Aquila and Priscilla? God used the apostles in the first century church to start the church. The only way you could explain Samuel J. same authority is to explain that the church was hidden for a time. But study Revelations and you will see it is not talking about the church at all but of Israel.
Comment on 1 corinthian chapter 3.
May 12th, 2010 at 2:06 pm
Hola a todos
Frank, ¿no tienes nada que decir acerca de la aberrante doctrina (DIZQUE REVELADA) en lldm de “los niños de maldición”?
Como dije, a toda persona, sea hombre o mujer, que esté considerando casarse con algún miembro(a) de la Luz del Mundo, les diré NO LO HAGAN Cometen un gran error.
Porque finalmente, su matrimonio es UN ACTO DE FORNICACION (de acuerdo a las creencias Samuelitas) ustedes son para su conyuge y su familia……..UN(A) RAMERO(A) y los hijos que tengan con el(la) Samuelita SERAN DE MALDICION. Todo esto porque “la biblia lo dice” aunque más bien, LO DIJO EL SR. EUSEBIO, y lo mantiene el Sr. Samuel Joaquin.
¿Y todo esto por que? pues por la amplia interpretación que puede darse (y que de hecho se dan) dando origen a multitud de doctrinas con la consecuente multitud de denominaciones cristianas, sobre los dichos de un rabbí judio dentro de su contexto judio. me refiero a Jesus, claro. Pero tambien en el “apostol” pablo que tambien malforma e interpreta los dichos de jesus.
Lo más tradicional, es tomar la sentencia de jesus contra el divorcio, mas sin embargo dando una excepción, siendo la unica causa de divorcio el adulterio, despues viene lo que dice pablo en Corintios de quien se une a un ramera, adultera, si se toma en el sentido judio de la epoca, que adulterar no solo es en el sentido sexual sino en el amplio “pecar contra la ley de Dios” entonces si se podria justificar lo que dicen en LLDM, “los hijos son malditos” pero resulta que en LLDM ni siquiera saben por qué y cuando hay adulterio, lo toman “como quieren” y cuando les conviene.
Tan solo es una medida de presion para obligar al conyuge no samuelongo a convertirse.
El pedo es que esta gente se cree muy santa y seguidora de Dios, pero fallan en lo principal al adorar a un becerro de oro, y pensando que asi agradan a Dios. POBRES.
jejeje Oscar no publicas mi comentario? saludos
May 12th, 2010 at 1:41 pm
David,
“the church does not preach that there can only be one apostle, we preach that we have an apostle. ”
Then explain to me how LLDM is the restoration of the primitive church if you only have 1 apostle?
If Samuel were to make the same mistake as the Apostle Peter and separate himself from the Gentiles, then who would have the authority to rebuke Samuel in the same way Paul rebuked the Apostle Peter (Galatians 2:11-16)?
Can you also explain this, David?
You said Jesus was resurrected in a body, but He did not ascend to heaven that way. If that is true, then His body was left behind on this earth and it has been decaying somewhere in Palestine for 2,000 years.
If that is true, then Paul is a liar, because Paul taught that His body never decayed.
“We tell you the good news: What God promised our fathers he has fulfilled for us, their children, by raising up Jesus. As it is written in the second Psalm:
” ‘You are my Son;
today I have become your Father.’ The fact that God raised him from the dead, never to decay, is stated in these words:
” ‘I will give you the holy and sure blessings promised to David.’ So it is stated elsewhere:
” ‘You will not let your Holy One see decay.’”(Acts 13:32-35).
That is the Gospel, David. My job is done because I have told you the truth of the Bible. When you appear to be judged, you will stand alone before the Man and the Glory with nail-pierced hands, and the marks on His feet, and the spear wound in His side – and you will now not be able to say that you were never exposed to the truth of the Gospel.
I do not confuse Jesus – the Son, with the Father. I will explain the context of John chapter 1 to you later, and you will see that is an incorrect assumption.
May 12th, 2010 at 1:29 pm
David,
Thank you for responding to my question.
Question: Why does LLDM then openly teach that no can receive forgiviness from their sins, be baptized and receive salvation if they are not under SFJ authority?
Question: What sets SJF a part from the many other modern-day apostles that are in the world today, and even before Aaron was alive?
May 12th, 2010 at 12:43 pm
Christopher the church does not preach that there can only be one apostle, we preach that we have an apostle.
Lluvia,
Blessed be the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. Who give this wonderful understanding of how united he is with God, so united that the world confuses him with his father. But even Jesus prays to his Father. His Father that could save him and that is why we pray to him through Jesus Christ, the name that is over all names. The name in which we are baptized. Because in his name we are forgiven.
Amen.
May 12th, 2010 at 12:20 pm
david,
yes! i know.. proverbs is talking about the wisdom of god, jus like john is talking about the world of god.
juan 1:14-y aquel verbo fue hecho carne, y habito entre nosotros(y vimos su gloria, gloria COMO del unigenito del padre), lleno de gracia y verdad. (tengo una biblia en espanol, no en ingles. perdon)
aqui dice, gloria COMO del unigentio. aqui se esta comparando la palabra y jesucristo, no esta diciendo que es jesucristo.
May 12th, 2010 at 11:53 am
David
listen to Colin and pay close attention to what he is telling you. Colin speaks with the holy spirit not just his own thinking like the Apostle from LLDM makes things up and collects money for his own benefits. We need Christ and the bible was and is preparing us for the coming Jesus Christ. There is no one else we need other then Jesus, the father and holy spirit in one. There is no trick to the bible, you simply read it and it tells you how powerful Jesus is and why we need him and only him. I dare you to find where it says in the bible, that we need a man. The apostle from LLDM is telling you that you do not need to read it because he dose not want anyone to find the truth, the fact that we can all read the bible, receive the holy spirit and be Baptiste in by fire just like Jesus told us in the bible.
May 12th, 2010 at 11:44 am
lluvia, what does Jesus Christ say about Himself?
““”To the angel of the church in Smyrna write:
These are the words of him who is the First and the Last, who died and came to life again.”(Revelation 2:8)
The Father never died, the Son is the one who died and came back to life again. The Son says He is the first and the last.
“”Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.”(Revelation 22:12-13)
“I am the Alpha and the Omega” – In Revelation 22, this is Jesus Himself speaking. What does this mean about Him?
“This is what the LORD says— Israel’s King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.” (Isaiah 44:6)
“I tell you the truth” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I AM!”(John 8:58)
May 12th, 2010 at 11:30 am
David,
in the future, I would appreciate it if you would let me speak for myself when it comes to what I believe, and not say things like “However Colin along with many evangelicals including the Jehovah Witnesses believe this”. I believe the CONTEXT of what the Bible says, as I have shown.
Now David, if I have a hunch that you believe a certain way, I ask you and let you speak for yourself. I would appreciate the same respect from you.
Now, perhaps you can answer a question that you have avoided –
“The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us.”(John 1:14)
If this is not a reference to Jesus Christ, then who is the Word who was made flesh and dwelt among us?
Who is the One of whom John says “We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.”(John 1:14) if it is not a reference to Christ Jesus?
May 12th, 2010 at 11:25 am
David,
Question – Why does LLDM teach that there can only be one true apostle on earth for the foundation and not as Christ established with many aposltes and prophets? (Eps 2:19-22).
May 12th, 2010 at 11:23 am
David, I have never changed my view of this. The Word God spoke was made flesh by God the Father in the form of Jesus Christ. But since the Bible says The Word was God, then this means God was made flesh in the form of Jesus Christ.
David, you are very confused – Jesus Resurrected from the grave in an immortal body.
An immortal body is not flesh and blood, it has been changed when it was raised from the dead. It was sown perishable, but raised to life imperishable.
The throne of David is not in heaven, it is a physical throne here on this earth in Jerusalem, Israel. How will Jesus fulfill the promise that He will one day sit on that throne as ruler of an eternal kingdom if He was not raised from the grave?
You said Jesus was resurrected in a body, but He did not ascend to heaven that way. If that is true, then His body was left behind on this earth and it has been decaying somewhere in Palestine for 2,000 years.
If that is true, then Paul is a liar, because Paul taught that His body never decayed.
“We tell you the good news: What God promised our fathers he has fulfilled for us, their children, by raising up Jesus. As it is written in the second Psalm:
” ‘You are my Son;
today I have become your Father.’ The fact that God raised him from the dead, never to decay, is stated in these words:
” ‘I will give you the holy and sure blessings promised to David.’ So it is stated elsewhere:
” ‘You will not let your Holy One see decay.’”(Acts 13:32-35)
May 12th, 2010 at 11:22 am
Lluvia, listen to what wisdom says here, God had her in the beginning. Proverbs 8 especially verses 22-30. However Colin along with many evangelicals including the Jehovah Witnesses believe this is Jesus Christ, when in reality it is one of the 7 spirits of God. God has always possesed them.
Does not wisdom cry out,
And understanding lift up her voice?
2 She takes her stand on the top of the high hill,
Beside the way, where the paths meet.
3 She cries out by the gates, at the entry of the city,
At the entrance of the doors:
4 “ To you, O men, I call,
And my voice is to the sons of men.
5 O you simple ones, understand prudence,
And you fools, be of an understanding heart.
6 Listen, for I will speak of excellent things,
And from the opening of my lips will come right things;
7 For my mouth will speak truth;
Wickedness is an abomination to my lips.
8 All the words of my mouth are with righteousness;
Nothing crooked or perverse is in them.
9 They are all plain to him who understands,
And right to those who find knowledge.
10 Receive my instruction, and not silver,
And knowledge rather than choice gold;
11 For wisdom is better than rubies,
And all the things one may desire cannot be compared with her.
12 “ I, wisdom, dwell with prudence,
And find out knowledge and discretion.
13 The fear of the LORD is to hate evil;
Pride and arrogance and the evil way
And the perverse mouth I hate.
14 Counsel is mine, and sound wisdom;
I am understanding, I have strength.
15 By me kings reign,
And rulers decree justice.
16 By me princes rule, and nobles,
All the judges of the earth.[a]
17 I love those who love me,
And those who seek me diligently will find me.
18 Riches and honor are with me,
Enduring riches and righteousness.
19 My fruit is better than gold, yes, than fine gold,
And my revenue than choice silver.
20 I traverse the way of righteousness,
In the midst of the paths of justice,
21 That I may cause those who love me to inherit wealth,
That I may fill their treasuries.
22 “ The LORD possessed me at the beginning of His way,
Before His works of old.
23 I have been established from everlasting,
From the beginning, before there was ever an earth.
24 When there were no depths I was brought forth,
When there were no fountains abounding with water.
25 Before the mountains were settled,
Before the hills, I was brought forth;
26 While as yet He had not made the earth or the fields,
Or the primal dust of the world.
27 When He prepared the heavens, I was there,
When He drew a circle on the face of the deep,
28 When He established the clouds above,
When He strengthened the fountains of the deep,
29 When He assigned to the sea its limit,
So that the waters would not transgress His command,
When He marked out the foundations of the earth,
30 Then I was beside Him as a master craftsman;[b]
And I was daily His delight,
Rejoicing always before Him,
31 Rejoicing in His inhabited world,
And my delight was with the sons of men.
32 “ Now therefore, listen to me, my children,
For blessed are those who keep my ways.
33 Hear instruction and be wise,
And do not disdain it.
34 Blessed is the man who listens to me,
Watching daily at my gates,
Waiting at the posts of my doors.
35 For whoever finds me finds life,
And obtains favor from the LORD;
36 But he who sins against me wrongs his own soul;
All those who hate me love death.”
May 12th, 2010 at 11:05 am
“In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.”(Genesis 1:1).
unfortunately, our English language does not do justice to the Hebrew language here, because this first verse of the Bible in it’s original language confirms the Tri-unity of God.
The word for God here is the Hebrew word “Elohim” – The Almighty. But if you know about Hebrew, you know that “Elohim” is a plural noun. Any word ending in “im” in Hebrew is the plural form of the noun. For example, “Seraphim” are a choir of angels, a “seraph” is one angel. “Cherubim” are a choir of angels, a “cherub”. Elohim is a plural noun, but the interesting thing is, it’s used here with the word “Xycorn” for created – which is a singular verb.
The problem with English and Spanish is we don’t have words in our language that can describe this. But by the actual Hebrew language in Genesis 1:1 – it dictates that there is both plurality and Oneness in God. We see it in other places in the Bible which confirm this:
“Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.”(Deuteronomy 6:4) – the word for “one” here is the Hebrew word “מאוחד” which means “United”.
God speaks in many places, suggesting that there is both plurality and Oneness in His being.
“Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?” (Isaiah 6:8)
How does God call Himself both “I” and “us”?
May 12th, 2010 at 10:58 am
Lluvia, that was not always Colins stance on this subject, however after several chats, now he understands.
May 12th, 2010 at 10:57 am
Lluvia, it is talking about the Word, what God spoke. Not Jesus.
May 12th, 2010 at 10:55 am
I’m sorry Colin I cannot tell you where you could read the 1000 letters, I don’t know where they are at. But maybe the brothers from Houston might be able to tell you…
Yes the bible does say that Word is God however the bible does not say that God became flesh it says the Word was MADE flesh John 1:14 And the Word WAS MADE flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Two big differences one, became flesh and two was made flesh. Someone made that Word flesh just like in the beginning someone made that word Light!
I did not avoid any scripture Galatians 2:11-16 is like it says it is. Paul also had those who watched his word Acts 17:11 These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so.
My good friend Colin, were these apostles? No, I am sorry these were members from the church, and they searched the scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so. You see even Paul himself says it in Galatians 1:6 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.
The church is does not believe in a man, the church believes in the teaching of God. That word never changes. And fortunately for us, these teaching was given from God to Jesus from Jesus to his apostles.
Well depends how you want to call the old and new testament, it wasn’t called a “bible” thousands of years ago was it? Ok, well, then we won’t call it a bible. We’ll call it the old testament, in the old testament the Apostles of Jesus Christ, their writings, works and the miracles they performed were not contained in the old testament. However, years later, they came, and many did not believe in them, but now they are mentioned in the New Testament.
Yes, you are the one coming up with these conclusions of apostles are necessary for salvation, what I merely stated before and will repeat myself again, is that, the apostles had and have the message of salvation, that message is preached and taught by them. Yes our savior is Jesus Christ (I have said this before as well) and in order to believe in Jesus Christ, we need to listen to their word (John 17:20). Paul could not save me, Peter could not save me, Samuel Joaquin cannot save me, but his word can because that word is life and truth. Amen Praise the Lord!
Then may I say this David – you do not believe the Gospel. If your belief is true, then the Bible is a lie and Jesus’ body has been decaying in a tomb in Palestine for almost 2,000 years.
If Jesus is not alive today in an immortal heavenly body with the wounds still on His hands, feet and side from bearing the punishment of our sins, then it means that the Messiah – The Anointed One, The Christ who was prophesied to sit upon the throne of David as the King of an Eternal Kingdom is dead forever and rotting in the grave along with every other person from the past.
Ah, you see how deceiving you are (just like the serpent), you said alive today in bodily form, but you did not say where and what bodily form. Yes he is in heaven, NOW you say in Palestine which is what I understood, before you did not mention any of that. I believe he has a heavenly body, not necessarily with holes in it LOL you know surely what is written about flesh and blood right? Cannot enter heaven.
How will He sit upon the throne of David if He did not come out of the grave in bodily form?
Ah, my friend Colin you leave me with the impression that you are Mormon and think God is in heaven in flesh and blood. He sits on the throne of David just like His Father sits on His own throne… God is a spirit… Not flesh and blood Colin.
Jesus did resurrect from the grave in a physical body, that’s a historical fact. And in that body He ascended to heaven. What LLDM teaches about Jesus is contrary to the Scriptures.
Yes he did Colin, he did raise from the grave in physical body but he did not go into heaven with a physical body. Wow, Colin that is blasphemous, I thought you read the bible. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; however, this might happen in the Church of Colin.
May 12th, 2010 at 10:45 am
lluvia, what does Jesus Christ say about Himself?
““”To the angel of the church in Smyrna write:
These are the words of him who is the First and the Last, who died and came to life again.”(Revelation 2:8)
The Father never died, the Son is the one who died and came back to life again. The Son says He is the first and the last.
“”Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.”(Revelation 22:12-13)
“I am the Alpha and the Omega” – In Revelation 22, this is Jesus Himself speaking. What does this mean about Him?
“This is what the LORD says— Israel’s King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.” (Isaiah 44:6)
“I tell you the truth” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I AM!”(John 8:58)
May 12th, 2010 at 10:39 am
lluvia,
It is talking about the Word of God. In the beginning was the Word. The Word was with God and the Word Was God (John 1:1-2.).
And:
“14The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us.”(John 1:14)
If this is not a reference to the Christ – Jesus of Nazareth, then who is the Word who became flesh and made his dwelling among us?
May 12th, 2010 at 10:34 am
But David, since the message that Samuel brings is different from the message in the Bible, then why should we believe it?
May 12th, 2010 at 10:32 am
well said david.
how can jesus be god?
for god so loved the world he gave his only begotten son. but his son came with authority, to preach the gospel, jus as god gave him!
im surprised how busy the blog has gotten since ive last checked..
and i have a question to colin..
do you believe that john 1 is talking about jesus? or the word?
because ive been taught that its talking about the word of god……….
May 12th, 2010 at 10:25 am
Colin, its not believing in the man you said it yourself, it’s believing in what they preach. The message that Jesus gave them. That message Jesus said it is life because it leads us to know the Father and his Son.
May 12th, 2010 at 10:17 am
Hola a todos
Frank, ¿no tienes nada que decir acerca de la aberrante doctrina (DIZQUE REVELADA) en lldm de “los niños de maldición”?
Como dije, a toda persona, sea hombre o mujer, que esté considerando casarse con algún miembro(a) de la Luz del Mundo, les diré NO LO HAGAN Cometen un gran error.
Porque finalmente, su matrimonio es UN ACTO DE FORNICACION (de acuerdo a las creencias Samuelitas) ustedes son para su conyuge y su familia……..UN(A) RAMERO(A) y los hijos que tengan con el(la) Samuelita SERAN DE MALDICION. Todo esto porque “la biblia lo dice” aunque más bien, LO DIJO EL SR. EUSEBIO, y lo mantiene el Sr. Samuel Joaquin.
¿Y todo esto por que? pues por la amplia interpretación que puede darse (y que de hecho se dan) dando origen a multitud de doctrinas con la consecuente multitud de denominaciones cristianas, sobre los dichos de un rabbí judio dentro de su contexto judio. me refiero a Jesus, claro. Pero tambien en el “apostol” pablo que tambien malforma e interpreta los dichos de jesus.
Lo más tradicional, es tomar la sentencia de jesus contra el divorcio, mas sin embargo dando una excepción, siendo la unica causa de divorcio el adulterio, despues viene lo que dice pablo en Corintios de quien se une a un ramera, adultera, si se toma en el sentido judio de la epoca, que adulterar no solo es en el sentido sexual sino en el amplio “pecar contra la ley de Dios” entonces si se podria justificar lo que dicen en LLDM, “los hijos son malditos” pero resulta que en LLDM ni siquiera saben por qué y cuando hay adulterio, lo toman “como quieren” y cuando les conviene.
Tan solo es una medida de presion para obligar al conyuge no samuelongo a convertirse.
El pedo es que esta gente se cree muy santa y seguidora de Dios, pero fallan en lo principal al adorar a un becerro de oro, y pensando que asi agradan a Dios. POBRES.
May 12th, 2010 at 10:04 am
Hey David,
one more question for you – where do Paul or any of the Biblical apostles ever say that we need to believe they are apostles for Salvation?
When they state they are apostles, they merely state it as fact, they never said that believing in their apostleship is necessary for Salvation.
May 12th, 2010 at 9:57 am
What happened to Revelation 22:12-13??
David says:
“Yes I have heard of Pastor Montemayor and Colin I am not sure why he does not want to continue his correspondence with you. But I am here, and have so far enjoyed our chats.”
Great, then David – you can tell me. Where can I read any of Samuel’s 1000+ letters? And where should those letters be included in the Bible?
David says:
“you believe the Word is Jesus Christ and I believe the Word is God.”
I believe the Bible. The Bible says that the Word is God. The Bible says that the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, which means that God became flesh and dwelt among us, and this can only be a reference to Christ Jesus. Therefore I believe what the Bible says – The Word is Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ is God.
David says:
“Why would you think I am in the ministerial corpse, believe me, I would not have time to chat all day with you. Perhaps it’s my defense of what I believe. Are you a minister Colin? Is Colin your real name? What church do you pertain to?
Im sorry Colin, but, Paul was pretty clear that Jesus is his Judge.”
I didn’t say I think that David, I said I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s true. The reason is because you avoided the Scripture that claims my point, and even now you are still trying to change the subject. Yes Jesus is his judge, not just Paul’s judge but everyone’s judge. He was not judging Peter, he was correcting him for his mistake. See, it’s only from you avoiding these types issues and questions that would keep us going in circles.
Where is the checks and balances in LLDM if they are truly the restoration of the primitive church? If Samuel were to make the same mistake as the Apostle Peter and separate himself from the Gentiles, then who would have the authority to rebuke Samuel in the same way Paul rebuked the Apostle Peter (Galatians 2:11-16)?
David says:
“Just like everything the Israelites needed to know about salvation was written in the law right?”
No, because they were promised a Messiah who would be the One who fulfilled the Law. Not until the New Testament is it revealed that Jesus is the Messiah, right?
David says:
“The bible (old testament) never mentioned anything about the apostles either, but they existed they were chosen, they were sent by Jesus and whether you believe that or not, that is your opinion, but to believe in those that Jesus has sent, well you need faith.”
First of all, David – the Old Testament is not the Bible. The Bible is the Old and New Testaments combined. The Apostles of Jesus Christ – their writings, works and the miracles they performed – are contained in the Bible in the New Testament. Where is Samuel Joaquin Flores mentioned as an apostle in the Bible? Nowhere, he says it about himself. So again David – your faith is not in what God says in the Bible, your faith is in what a man says.
David, I tell you the truth: we do not need Samuel Joaquin’s priesthood to save us “but because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood.”(Hebrews 7:24)
To this David asks:
“I am assuming that you also include the other apostles because they existed even though Jesus had and has a permanent priesthood right? Does this apply to the other apostles?”
Well, think about your assumption David. The very statement of “but because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood.” is a Bible verse. The only reason I know this about Jesus is because it was written by an authentic apostle of Jesus Christ. So, obviously true apostles do not make the claim that them living on earth is what is necessary for Salvation.
This is something I really want to focus on:
“Do you believe that Jesus is alive today in bodily form, David?
In a bodily form no”
Then may I say this David – you do not believe the Gospel. If your belief is true, then the Bible is a lie and Jesus’ body has been decaying in a tomb in Palestine for almost 2,000 years.
If Jesus is not alive today in an immortal heavenly body with the wounds still on His hands, feet and side from bearing the punishment of our sins, then it means that the Messiah – The Anointed One, The Christ who was prophesied to sit upon the throne of David as the King of an Eternal Kingdom is dead forever and rotting in the grave along with every other person from the past.
How will He sit upon the throne of David if He did not come out of the grave in bodily form?
“Why should any of you consider it incredible that God raises the dead?”(Acts 26:8)
“And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins.”(1 Corinthians 15:17
The Lord Jesus Christ right now, at this very moment is alive, sitting at the right hand of God the Father. He is there to make intercession for all those who will put their faith in Him. You can do this today by believing in what the Scripture states – that He conquered death and satan and God raised Him from the dead as the seal of His approval for Christ’s redemptive work on the cross. He will send you the Holy Spirit if you put your faith in the Living Lord Jesus Christ today, and come to Him just as you are. When the Holy Spirit comes, He will teach, train, counsel, lead, love, comfort, guide, disciple, and live within you to produce the fruit of good works. This He will do by taking the things of Christ and making them real to you as you study on your own God’s testimony about Himself to mankind – the Holy Scriptures. The Spirit will pray with you and for you and the Christ will mediate for your sins to God and the accuser satan will no longer have any power over you.
“Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.”(Hebrews 7:25)
Jesus did resurrect from the grave in a physical body, that’s a historical fact. And in that body He ascended to heaven. What LLDM teaches about Jesus is contrary to the Scriptures.
“So the women hurried away from the tomb, afraid yet filled with joy, and ran to tell his disciples. Suddenly Jesus met them. “Greetings,” he said. They came to him, clasped his feet and worshiped him. Then Jesus said to them, “Do not be afraid. Go and tell my brothers to go to Galilee; there they will see me.”(Matthew 28:8-10)
How did they clasp His feet when they worshipped Him if He was just a vision of a spirit?
“While the women were on their way, some of the guards went into the city and reported to the chief priests everything that had happened. When the chief priests had met with the elders and devised a plan, they gave the soldiers a large sum of money, telling them, “You are to say, ‘His disciples came during the night and stole him away while we were asleep.’ If this report gets to the governor, we will satisfy him and keep you out of trouble.” So the soldiers took the money and did as they were instructed. And this story has been widely circulated among the Jews to this very day.”(Matthew 28:11-15)
The guards watching the tomb reported that Jesus’ body was no longer in the tomb. Where did the body go if He was not Resurrected immortal, and is not alive in it today?
“While they were still talking about this, Jesus himself stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.”
They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a ghost. He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.”
When he had said this, he showed them his hands and feet. And while they still did not believe it because of joy and amazement, he asked them, “Do you have anything here to eat?” They gave him a piece of broiled fish, and he took it and ate it in their presence.”(Luke 24:28-43)
Spirits and visions do not have hands and feet that you can touch and cannot eat broiled fish with people.
“In my former book, Theophilus, I wrote about all that Jesus began to do and to teach until the day he was taken up to heaven, after giving instructions through the Holy Spirit to the apostles he had chosen. After his suffering, he showed himself to these men and gave many convincing proofs that he was alive. He appeared to them over a period of forty days and spoke about the kingdom of God. On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: “Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about. For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”
So when they met together, they asked him, “Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?”
He said to them: “It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”
After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight.
They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. “Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.”(Acts 1:1-11)
That is the Gospel. His death was for our forgiveness, His resurrection was for our Salvation. He died down here to save us, He lives up there to keep us saved. The only man who ever lived a perfect sinless life – the Lord Jesus Christ. Not only was He man, but He is God also and He willingly went to suffer on the cross. When He was put to death, He rose from the grave on the 3rd day. Over the next several weeks, He appeared to over 500 people and instructed them all to tell everyone that He was alive. He then ascended to the right hand of the Father where He now sits as our Great High priest to mediate to God for sins. The Lord Jesus Christ is alive in a body today and that is why we do not need Samuel Joaquin or anyone else to intercede for us.
Not only is Jesus Christ alive today, but He is going to return for those who believe and obey the message of His chosen disciples (the men who had the privilege of revealing Christ and the mysteries of God to us in the New Testament).
What is their message? I refer again to the Apostle Paul
“Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve. After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.”(1 Corinthians 15:1-8)
What need do we have for believing in Samuel?
“Now there have been many of those priests, since death prevented them from continuing in office; but because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood. Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.”(Hebrews 7:23-25)
“…Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts as you did at Meribah,”(Psalm 95:7-8)
“As has just been said:
“Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts
as you did in the rebellion.”(Hebrews 3:15)
May 12th, 2010 at 1:38 am
For the sake of questions, answers and statements.. Let say you start your sentences with maybe **** and I will start them with —- Otherwise it get’s to confusing for our readers.
May 12th, 2010 at 1:36 am
What happened to 1 Corinthians 4:4??
1. Wait a minute, David. Do you mean to say that this web page – http://www.lldmhouston.org/historia.html – is not officially sanctioned as an affiliate website of the church?
You know, I emailed the link to this page to Pastor Carlos Montemayor. Want to know what he thought of it? He replied by saying:
“Wow 1,000 and none out of order. Only God can inspire that…..I am not interested in correspondence.”
Well, quite frankly satan is the only could inspire 1,000 letters written 2,000 years too late to be included in Scripture being hailed as a legitimate part of God’s Word. What I want to know is this – if Mr. Montemayor is confident that what he says is the truth and these letters of Samuel were God inspired, then why would he not want to continue correspondence?
Yes I have heard of Pastor Montemayor and Colin I am not sure why he does not want to continue his correspondence with you. But I am here, and have so far enjoyed our chats.
When I sent him the link I asked him where I could read some of these letters, but apparantly they are not available for the general public, because I was never given the answer. Why not if they are inspired of God?
Colin maybe he is not interested in talking to you, you know he is a busy man. But I am, and hopefully we can continue this conversation until we go in circles, then they’ll be no point. I have read some of your others post on this same website and it seems like you feel things go round and round. It is pretty obvious that you and I think very differently, you believe the Word is Jesus Christ and I believe the Word is God. You believe in the trinity and I don’t. I am glad however that we have stayed in the same subject (for the most part).
BIG filters indeed. David, you even filter out what the Bible itself says, as you continue to show with your comments here.
“Ha, that is the most absurd comment I have heard come out of your mouth. They did not correct each other lol what bible did you read that from?”
You can read that from any version of the Bible that contains Galatians 2:11-16. I would not be surprised if you yourself David are in the ministerial corpse of LLDM, because what you did was re-post my comments about the system of checks and balances, but you did not post Galatians 2:11-16 as I did, which show that the Biblical Apostles did in fact correct each other.
Why would you think I am in the ministerial corpse, believe me, I would not have time to chat all day with you. Perhaps it’s my defense of what I believe. Are you a minister Colin? Is Colin your real name? What church do you pertain to?
Im sorry Colin, but, Paul was pretty clear that Jesus is his Judge.
Unless you’re saying that Paul is a liar and he did not really correct Peter:
No Paul is not a liar.
““When Peter came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he was clearly in the wrong. Before certain men came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he began to draw back and separate himself from the Gentiles because he was afraid of those who belonged to the circumcision group. The other Jews joined him in his hypocrisy, so that by their hypocrisy even Barnabas was led astray.
When I saw that they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter in front of them all, “You are a Jew, yet you live like a Gentile and not like a Jew. How is it, then, that you force Gentiles to follow Jewish customs?
“We who are Jews by birth and not ‘Gentile sinners’ know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified.”(Galatians 2:11-16)
David, the Bible is the Word of God. SJF does not make it the Word of God, it already is.
I have never said SJF makes It the Word of God, in fact I recall telling you that even Jesus said the word he spoke was not his. I remember telling you that they all preached God’s Word.
The only reliable source for the truth about the origin of the universe, the Person and attributes of the Creator, and God’s decree for the history of the universe and mankind.
SJF had nothing to do with that, so he does not make the Bible the Word of God, it already is the Word of God.
Everything that we need to know about Salvation and about who God is is contained in the CONTEXT of the pages of the Bible.
Just like everything the Israelites needed to know about salvation was written in the law right?
CONTEXT is the all important issue. I’ll come back to this in a second.
But first, you say:
“It’s called faith Colin, you do know what faith is right?” Yes I do, and you do know there is also a problem with faith, right? Because you can blindly have faith in the wrong thing.
Now time for some reasoning.
As we agreed, the context of what the Bible itself actually says is our source for determining truth. The Bible does not say anything about Samuel Joaquin, he makes this claim about himself. Therefore where is your faith? Is it rooted in the truth of what God says in the Bible itself? Or in what a man says?
The bible (old testament) never mentioned anything about the apostles either, but they existed they were chosen, they were sent by Jesus and whether you believe that or not, that is your opinion, but to believe in those that Jesus has sent, well you need faith. Now, The Lord does establish something in his church a foundation called apostles.
Back to the issue of CONTEXT. Hebrews 11:1 is a perfect example.
Hebrews 11:1: “Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.”
OK, first of all this is from the 11th chapter of Hebrews, so you skipped over 10 chapters of very important Scripture which tells us what a Christian should have faith in. In a nutshell it is this – that Christ has Risen from the grave. He is alive, and seated at the right hand of the father where he lives forever to mediate for man to God. We have hope of eternal life, and we can be sure of our hope in that because Jesus is alive for eternity. He lives as our Great High Priest to make intercession for our sins to God – we can be certain of that even though we do not see it.
John 20:29: “Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
What is it that Thomas believed? Well, let’s see the whole passage:
“Now Thomas (called Didymus), one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came. So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!”
But he said to them, “Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe it.”
A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”
Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”(John 20:24-29)
Thomas believed that Jesus was alive, Risen from the grave in a resurrected body which he (Thomas) was able to touch with his hands. The Lord Jesus is alive, and He says “blessed are those who have not seen and yet believed.”
Do you believe that Jesus is alive today in bodily form, David?
In a bodily form no, I do believe he is standing on the right side of God.” But he, being full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God,”
God is somewhere and Jesus is at his right hand, yes there is a separation there not two Gods in one or three.
This is the same with God, God was in who? In Jesus it does not say God was Jesus it said he was in him. Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, 19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
David, I tell you the truth: we do not need Samuel Joaquin’s priesthood to save us “but because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood.”(Hebrews 7:24)
I am assuming that you also include the other apostles because they existed even though Jesus had and has a permanent priesthood right? Does this apply to the other apostles?
“Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.
Such a high priest meets our need—one who is holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners, exalted above the heavens. Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself.(Hebrews 7:25-27)
Samuel as a high priest and mediator to God being the foundation of your faith is weak, because he has his own sins to atone for before he could try to save someone else – that is no savior. Christ as our high priest and mediator to God being the foundation of our faith means that it is founded on the rock.
I am sorry Colin, but my foundation is firm, built upon the apostles Ephesians 2:20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone,
You see Colin, the foundation includes both Jesus and his apostles.
May 11th, 2010 at 11:23 pm
Wait a minute, David. Do you mean to say that this web page – http://www.lldmhouston.org/historia.html – is not officially sanctioned as an affiliate website of the church?
You know, I emailed the link to this page to Pastor Carlos Montemayor. Want to know what he thought of it? He replied by saying:
“Wow 1,000 and none out of order. Only God can inspire that…..I am not interested in correspondence.”
Well, quite frankly satan is the only could inspire 1,000 letters written 2,000 years too late to be included in Scripture being hailed as a legitimate part of God’s Word. What I want to know is this – if Mr. Montemayor is confident that what he says is the truth and these letters of Samuel were God inspired, then why would he not want to continue correspondence?
When I sent him the link I asked him where I could read some of these letters, but apparantly they are not available for the general public, because I was never given the answer. Why not if they are inspired of God?
BIG filters indeed. David, you even filter out what the Bible itself says, as you continue to show with your comments here.
“Ha, that is the most absurd comment I have heard come out of your mouth. They did not correct each other lol what bible did you read that from?”
You can read that from any version of the Bible that contains Galatians 2:11-16. I would not be surprised if you yourself David are in the ministerial corpse of LLDM, because what you did was re-post my comments about the system of checks and balances, but you did not post Galatians 2:11-16 as I did, which show that the Biblical Apostles did in fact correct eachother.
Unless you’re saying that Paul is a liar and he did not really correct Peter:
““When Peter came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he was clearly in the wrong. Before certain men came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he began to draw back and separate himself from the Gentiles because he was afraid of those who belonged to the circumcision group. The other Jews joined him in his hypocrisy, so that by their hypocrisy even Barnabas was led astray.
When I saw that they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter in front of them all, “You are a Jew, yet you live like a Gentile and not like a Jew. How is it, then, that you force Gentiles to follow Jewish customs?
“We who are Jews by birth and not ‘Gentile sinners’ know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified.”(Galatians 2:11-16)
David, the Bible is the Word of God. SJF does not make it the Word of God, it already is. The only reliable source for the truth about the origin of the universe, the Person and attributes of the Creator, and God’s decree for the history of the universe and mankind.
SJF had nothing to do with that, so he does not make the Bible the Word of God, it already is the Word of God.
Everything that we need to know about Salvation and about who God is is contained in the CONTEXT of the pages of the Bible.
CONTEXT is the all important issue. I’ll come back to this in a second.
But first, you say:
“It’s called faith Colin, you do know what faith is right?” Yes I do, and you do know there is also a problem with faith, right? Because you can blindly have faith in the wrong thing.
Now time for some reasoning.
As we agreed, the context of what the Bible itself actually says is our source for determining truth. The Bible does not say anything about Samuel Joaquin, he makes this claim about himself. Therefore where is your faith? Is it rooted in the truth of what God says in the Bible itself? Or in what a man says?
Back to the issue of CONTEXT. Hebrews 11:1 is a perfect example.
Hebrews 11:1: “Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.”
OK, first of all this is from the 11th chapter of Hebrews, so you skipped over 10 chapters of very important Scripture which tells us what a Christian should have faith in. In a nutshell it is this – that Christ has Risen from the grave. He is alive, and seated at the right hand of the father where he lives forever to mediate for man to God. We have hope of eternal life, and we can be sure of our hope in that because Jesus is alive for eternity. He lives as our Great High Priest to make intercession for our sins to God – we can be certain of that even though we do not see it.
John 20:29: “Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
What is it that Thomas believed? Well, let’s see the whole passage:
“Now Thomas (called Didymus), one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came. So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!”
But he said to them, “Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe it.”
A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”
Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”(John 20:24-29)
Thomas believed that Jesus was alive, Risen from the grave in a resurrected body which he (Thomas) was able to touch with his hands. The Lord Jesus is alive, and He says “blessed are those who have not seen and yet believed.”
Do you believe that Jesus is alive today in bodily form, David?
David, I tell you the truth: we do not need Samuel Joaquin’s priesthood to save us “but because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood.”(Hebrews 7:24)
“Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.
Such a high priest meets our need—one who is holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners, exalted above the heavens. Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself.(Hebrews 7:25-27)
Samuel as a high priest and mediator to God being the foundation of your faith is weak, because he has his own sins to atone for before he could try to save someone else – that is no savior. Christ as our high priest and mediator to God being the foundation of our faith means that it is founded on the rock.
“Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus,”(Hebrews 10:19), and not by the prayers of the false apostle Samuel, why should we fear your condemnation of us, if you can show no real Biblical foundation for his claims?
There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
May 11th, 2010 at 9:27 pm
Those are some BIG filters…
“It is called faith…”
What is the difference between the people that had faith in David Koresh and people that have faith in Samuel Joaquin? I mean, they had “faith” in Koresh and it was wrong, what makes you think your “faith” is correct? Faith is faith then? So if you have faith, it doesn’t matter if it’s not in accordance with what the Bible instructs?
May 11th, 2010 at 9:08 pm
No Colin you said the official church website, the official church website is http://www.lldm.org I think when the page loads it says official church website… Yes it does, below the picture.
May 11th, 2010 at 9:05 pm
Checks and Balances, wow, that was pretty good, I think that is what they preach in the church of Colin and Mary. Bring on the next “unscriptural doctrines of LLDM”. (Sorry) the next unscriptural doctrine of the church of Colin and Mary. Colin you cannot compare God’s government with that of the U.S. Well… You can but only in your church, not the Lords.
May 11th, 2010 at 8:50 pm
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The Word was God. Re-read now John 1:14 “The Word became flesh and dwelt among us.” Who is the Word who became flesh if it is not the Christ – Jesus of Nazareth.
“To receive the Lord you need to receive the apostle, that is all I am claiming that the Lord, said”
I told you yes the Lord said you need to receive the Apostles and you receive them by receiving their message – the New Testament! Now David tell me – where does the Bible mention Samuel Joaquin Flores as one of the apostles?
It’s called faith Colin, you do know what faith is right? Go ahead explain it to Mary and understand it yourself. Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Remember they had to believe in Jesus Christ in order to be saved. They had to believe that the apostle Paul was sent by Jesus. We read it in all his letters. Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God; Paul, an apostle (not from men nor through man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father who raised Him from the dead), etc. And there are many more verses I am sure you know which I am talking about. Look, how were the people going to believe in Jesus? Through their word, but many then like you today could not accept the fact that he was an apostle of Jesus Christ. The persecutor…
“Mary, could the church listen to the Word without an Apostle?”
Of course they could, because the Apostles wrote their message and everything they preached down. If someone (anyone the Holy Spirit chooses to send into my life – because how can they preach if they are not sent) reads me the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, or the epistles of Acts, Romans, 1,2 Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1,2 Thessalonians, 1,2 Timothy, Titus, Philemon, Hebrews, James, 1,2 Peter, 1,2,3 John, Jude, or Revelation – is it your belief that I am not then listening to the Word??
I am sorry to disappoint you again Colin, I thought we were speaking with the bible? Where are you pulling these things from? If Paul and the other apostles did not exist, no they could not listen to the word of God. Because the word was given to them… It is like Jonah, the first time he was sent to Nineveh, Nineveh did not hear anything because Jonah was not there to preach to them. He had to be there in order for them to hear God’s word and repent.
“Let me ask you this, what happened to those that died before Jesus was born?”
I’ll tell you what happened to them – they were saved on a Messianic credit card. Moses, David, Samuel, Elijah, Elisha, Abraham, Isaiah, Hosea, ALL the saints of the Old Testament, they all died looking forward to the Salvation promised through the Messiah.
Indeed they did, they looked forward but at the time of each of their deaths, there was no salvation for them. The Messiah had to come in order to bring them salvation.
They didn’t know all the details, all they knew there was One coming. David when he was an old man, said that this was his Salvation, that there was One coming in His line who would be the Messiah. The Messiah would defeat satan and death, offer redemption, and repentance and forgiveness of sins would be preached in His name to all nations, beginning in Jerusalem. They were saved by their faith in God’s promise. God saved them because of their faith, because He knew the penalty for their sins was going to be paid when the time came for Him to send the Son.
When the Son came from the Father to pay the penalty for sins, He overpaid. The Messianic credit card, if you will – He said I’m gonna pay for these from the past, but I want to pay for all the ones still to come too.
“I don’t understand the checks and balances, I think we have been very clear that the message he preaches is the same that Paul and Peter and John and all the other apostles spoke.
Then there would be more than one apostle? Why?”
Let me help you understand why with what Scripture says. Aside from the fact that there
were 13 Apostles named by Jesus in the primitive church – the reason the true “restoration of the primitive church” would have more than 1 Apostle for checks and balances like Mary said. You don’t understand checks and balances? Do you understand how the 3 branches of the U.S. government are designed to work? There is a system of checks and balances to prevent any one branch (or any one person) from having opportunity to be corrupted by complete and total authority. The Apostles of the primitive church were men, and they made mistakes. There were more than one of them so they would have equal peers who could correct their mistakes.
Ha, that is the most absurd comment I have heard come out of your mouth. They did not correct each other lol what bible did you read that from? 1 Corinthians 4:4 For I know of nothing against myself, yet I am not justified by this; but He who judges me is the Lord.
If Samuel Joaquin Flores were to make a mistake such as the mistake the Apostle Peter made, who would have the authority to rebuke Samuel like the Apostle Paul did?
!Jesus Christ!
That’s one example of the unscriptural doctrines of LLDM.
Checks and balances? That’s in the bible? Are you perhaps reading the bible of the U.S. Government?
Alpha = Beginning & Omega = End. Alpha and Omega are also the 1st and the last letters of the Greek Alphabet.
Does God have a beginning? Does God have an End?
No, He doesn’t have beginning or ending because God is the beginning and the end. So what does that tell you about Jesus when He said these things about Himself:
““”To the angel of the church in Smyrna write:
These are the words of him who is the First and the Last, who died and came to life again.”(Revelation 2:8)
Thanks for the verse, who died… Don’t recall God (Father) dying at all. The son however did die and was brought back to life.
“”Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.”(Revelation 22:12-13)
First and Last, again refers to Jesus Christ. This is where you make your mistakes, God has no beginning and no end. He has always been eternal, something Jesus has not been.
Jesus said “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End”, so David – does Jesus have a beginning? Does Jesus have an end?
The Jesus of the Bible does not. Better find out the truth about Him for Behold – He is coming soon!
Jesus has no beginning? Again what bible are you reading?
Colossians 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. Yes the firstborn. First… Born…. He is the IMAGE of the invisible God.
Revelations 3:14 ‘These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God: THE BEGINNING OF THE CREATION “OF” GOD.
May 11th, 2010 at 8:34 pm
David,
So each LLDM church in different cities have their own website and are not sanctioned by the main church?! Are you trying to tell us that headquarters are unaware of the blasphemies posted by their scattered churches throughout the world? If that is so, shame on headquarters and shame on the pastoral body for allowing such bold blasphemies to be put online.
Still, it is a genuine website of your church, so your defense is invalid.
May 11th, 2010 at 8:16 pm
Sorry to dissapoint Colin the church website is http://www.lldm.org
May 11th, 2010 at 6:25 pm
David,
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The Word was God. Re-read now John 1:14 “The Word became flesh and dwelt among us.” Who is the Word who became flesh if it is not the Christ – Jesus of Nazareth.
“To receive the Lord you need to receive the apostle, that is all I am claiming that the Lord, said”
I told you yes the Lord said you need to receive the Apostles and you receive them by receiving their message – the New Testament! Now David tell me – where does the Bible mention Samuel Joaquin Flores as one of the apostles?
“And what we learn is his word, nothing new.”
Nothing new? I respect the fact that this is what you choose to believe. But according to LLDM’s official website, there is something new because the letters of Samuel Joaquin are held as equal to the Bible. Once again, your church’s own website proves my point.
As translated from http://www.lldmhouston.org/historia.html –
“Thirteen were letters written by the Apostle Paul. The Apostle of Jesus Christ, our brother Samuel, has written over the past forty years of leadership and governance of the Church, near a thousand letters to the Church, and as many written to ministers or church members. In the entire history of the Church, since it was founded by Jesus Christ more than two thousand years, there was no organization and internal management as there is now. The ministries, directorates, commissions, fees administrative, everything absolutely everything, has been established by the Apostle of Jesus Christ.”
The only way that anyone could make such a comparison is to believe that these 1000+ letter from Samuel Joaquin are equal to or even better than the very Word of God, the Holy Bible.
“Mary, could the church listen to the Word without an Apostle?”
Of course they could, because the Apostles wrote their message and everything they preached down. If someone (anyone the Holy Spirit chooses to send into my life – because how can they preach if they are not sent) reads me the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, or the epistles of Acts, Romans, 1,2 Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1,2 Thessalonians, 1,2 Timothy, Titus, Philemon, Hebrews, James, 1,2 Peter, 1,2,3 John, Jude, or Revelation – is it your belief that I am not then listening to the Word??
“Let me ask you this, what happened to those that died before Jesus was born?”
I’ll tell you what happened to them – they were saved on a Messianic credit card. Moses, David, Samuel, Elijah, Elisha, Abraham, Isaiah, Hosea, ALL the saints of the Old Testament, they all died looking forward to the Salvation promised through the Messiah. They didn’t know all the details, all they knew there was One coming. David when he was an old man, said that this was his Salvation, that there was One coming in His line who would be the Messiah. The Messiah would defeat satan and death, offer redemption, and repentance and forgiveness of sins would be preached in His name to all nations, beginning in Jerusalem. They were saved by their faith in God’s promise. God saved them because of their faith, because He knew the penalty for their sins was going to be paid when the time came for Him to send the Son.
When the Son came from the Father to pay the penalty for sins, He overpaid. The Messianic credit card, if you will – He said I’m gonna pay for these from the past, but I want to pay for all the ones still to come too.
“I don’t understand the checks and balances, I think we have been very clear that the message he preaches is the same that Paul and Peter and John and all the other apostles spoke.
Then there would be more than one apostle? Why?”
Let me help you understand why with what Scripture says. Aside from the fact that there were 13 Apostles named by Jesus in the primitive church – the reason the true “restoration of the primitive church” would have more than 1 Apostle for checks and balances like Mary said. You don’t understand checks and balances? Do you understand how the 3 branches of the U.S. government are designed to work? There is a system of checks and balances to prevent any one branch (or any one person) from having opportunity to be corrupted by complete and total authority. The Apostles of the primitive church were men, and they made mistakes. There were more than one of them so they would have equal peers who could correct their mistakes.
If Samuel Joaquin Flores were to make a mistake such as the mistake the Apostle Peter made, who would have the authority to rebuke Samuel like the Apostle Paul did?
“When Peter came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he was clearly in the wrong. Before certain men came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he began to draw back and separate himself from the Gentiles because he was afraid of those who belonged to the circumcision group. The other Jews joined him in his hypocrisy, so that by their hypocrisy even Barnabas was led astray.
When I saw that they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter in front of them all, “You are a Jew, yet you live like a Gentile and not like a Jew. How is it, then, that you force Gentiles to follow Jewish customs?
“We who are Jews by birth and not ‘Gentile sinners’ know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified.”(Galatians 2:11-16)
There was a wonderful system of checks and balances among the Apostles in the primitive church. Where is the checks and balances in LLDM?
That’s one example of the unscriptural doctrines of LLDM.
Alpha = Beginning & Omega = End. Alpha and Omega are also the 1st and the last letters of the Greek Alphabet.
Does God have a beginning? Does God have an End?
No, He doesn’t have beginning or ending because God is the beginning and the end. So what does that tell you about Jesus when He said these things about Himself:
““”To the angel of the church in Smyrna write:
These are the words of him who is the First and the Last, who died and came to life again.”(Revelation 2:8)
“”I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.”(Revelation 1:8)
“”Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.”(Revelation 22:12-13)
Jesus said “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End”, so David – does Jesus have a beginning? Does Jesus have an end?
The Jesus of the Bible does not. Better find out the truth about Him for Behold – He is coming soon!
May 11th, 2010 at 5:16 pm
Few, I think I hit Colin where it hurts. One at a time, here we go. Mary thanks for chiming in and listening to the word of God. Because this word is life and truth. Yes David perhaps the statement in regards to James Bentley did not come back far enough, but you said it correctly, it was added even before. Either way, the verse was added.
Colin the Word is God please re-read John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
To receive the Lord you need to receive the apostle, that is all I am claiming that the Lord, said. People try to skip that part and say David, how can you receive a man’s teaching, well Jesus was a man and so were his apostles.
As far as gospel revelation, well we are talking about God’s word here, as far as gospel revelation you said.. Yes.. What about as far as God’s word? God would say what his Son said 2,000 years ago…. Yes Colin he would because his word remains forever… And what we learn is his word, nothing new.
Look at you immediately attacking a doctrine you know nothing of. Lol, good, see frustration kicks in when nothing is going right for you. Immediately start speaking things you don’t know.
You are saying that I don’t believe in Jesus Christ when I clearly told you that he is MY Saviour and God…
Mary, I do believe Jesus is God, he is My God but there is someone greater than him is there not? Yes, someone greater than him is his Father.
Yes Mary, Jesus is not of this world and neither are his apostles John 17:14 I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.
If God were to take Samuel J life then there would be no hope for salvation? Mary, could the church listen to the Word without an Apostle? And the Word is what? Salvation, life… Jesus gave them his Word, he also sends them with a message Mathew 28:19. Unfortunately Colin and many evangelicals believe that Mathew 28:19 applies to them. How will they preach if they were not sent?
No Mary, Jesus death was not in vain, Jesus death was so we could have hope of salvation. Anyone that believes in him shall have everlasting life. Let me ask you this, what happened to those that died before Jesus was born?
When there were multitudes in Acts coming to the faith it was not because the people had to believe in the apostles authority but because of the message being preached about Jesus.
100% agree. The Word is life!!
Now remember there were many preaching in the name of Jesus but they weren’t sent. Listen to this. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
Yes apostles are human like you and I and Jesus was human as well.
And I do believe we are the restoration of the primitive church. I don’t understand the checks and balances, I think we have been very clear that the message he preaches is the same that Paul and Peter and John and all the other apostles spoke.
Then there would be more than one apostle? Why?
Your church has many things that are unscriptural… please enlighten me.
The alpha and omega… Here we go…
Alpha = Beginning & Omega = End
Does God have a beginning? Does God have an End?
May 11th, 2010 at 5:03 pm
Great!
Colin, you found it! Now, I want to know who is adding to the Bible!
The French have a word for what Colin and Mary just did:
coup de grâce (k d gräs)
n. pl. coups de grâce (k)
1. A deathblow delivered to end the misery of a mortally wounded victim.
2. A finishing stroke or decisive event.
[French : coup, stroke + de, of + grâce, mercy.]
Their own church betrays them. I hope they read the link… And after they read it (if for some reason they don’t believe your translation, Colin), I’ll like to see any and all pathetic arguments they will employ to defend this link from their church and it’s bold claim.
May 11th, 2010 at 4:45 pm
When the word “church” appears in the Bible, the Greek Word used is “ekklisía”, it means “the called out” (english versions of “Ecclesiastical”, etc. are rooted from this word)
The church is not a globally controlled organization. The church is simply all the believers who God has called out from among Jews and Gentiles to be God’s people.
If you are a Christian – You have a call to be a Servant of God yourself!
You see, for almost 2,000 years – from the day of Pentecost in Acts 2 straight through to this day, God has been calling out a people to Himself through the message of Salvation that the Bible talks about – the Death, Burial, and bodily Resurrection of Jesus Christ. If you are in Christ, you are a part of the body of Christ and included in the “called out” church of the Living Lord Jesus Christ.
When you die and stand before God, it’s not gonna matter whether you were a Catholic, Lutheran, Grace Christian, Baptist, Apostolic, etc. All that will matter is this – Did you believe Jesus about who He said He was?
Well, who did Jesus say He was? He didn’t just say He was a good and righteous, and God fearing man who God had created. They would not have put Him to death for saying that, but that isn’t what He said. He said that He is God manifest in the flesh, and that if you don’t believe in Him you will die in your sins. So, that will be the main question – did you believe what Jesus said, or did you make Him out to be a liar? He said that He was going to die, and be raised to life on the 3rd day – and He was! The Father raised Jesus to life, His body never to see decay!
That is the message of the Gospel. What did you do with this message after you hear it is what determines if you are in the “ekklisía”.
May 11th, 2010 at 4:18 pm
As translated from http://www.lldmhouston.org/historia.html –
“Thirteen were letters written by the Apostle Paul. The Apostle of Jesus Christ, our brother Samuel, has written over the past forty years of leadership and governance of the Church, near a thousand letters to the Church, and as many written to ministers or church members. In the entire history of the Church, since it was founded by Jesus Christ more than two thousand years, there was no organization and internal management as there is now. The ministries, directorates, commissions, fees administrative, everything absolutely everything, has been established by the Apostle of Jesus Christ.”
This ties in directly with the question of what do we use as the source of truth – what the Bible itself says or what Samuel Joaquin and LLDM say?
Although David and other members may claim that they are basing the truth on what the Scriptures themselves actually say – by David’s responses (and by LLDM’s own words on their official website), we can see that this is not true. LLDM does not use what the Bible itself actually says as the source of truth – they use the private interpretation of what Samuel Joaquin says the Bible means. Beyond that, on LLDM’s own website, they propagate the idea that Samuel’s “letters” to the church (which are in essence nothing more than greeting cards inviting people to Guadalajara at times of the year he chose) are equal to and even better than the marvelous epistles of the New Testament.
The Apostles of Jesus Christ did not have to write 1000+ letters, because they accomplished the task of fully and completely articulating their message in just 27 letters among them and the other disciples combined.
So, what is our source of truth, LLDM members? Our guide for truth can only be what the Scriptures themselves actually say, otherwise there is no basis for determining truth from error if the source and guide is “private”.
And BTW, on a much less important (and somewhat joking) note – I don’t think Paul only wrote 13 letters, he only identified himself as the writer in 13 of them. The writer of the epistle to the Hebrews does not identify himself. But based on the language used and the style of writing in Hebrews, I think one can recognize Paul’s fingerprints on this epistle. Now if Paul didn’t write Hebrews, it means he only wrote 13 epistles. Do you really think he would have stopped at that unlucky number? He must’ve wrote Hebrews then, making it 14.
May 11th, 2010 at 2:05 pm
Oh Oscar, how could I forget? More food for the brain – Frank also was never able to answer how Jesus is the Alpha and Omega without being God.
Comments regarding LLDM’s declaration of greatness to Samuel Joaquin.
As translated from http://www.lldmhouston.org/historia.html –
“Thirteen were letters written by the Apostle Paul. The Apostle of Jesus Christ, our brother Samuel, has written over the past forty years of leadership and governance of the Church, near a thousand letters to the Church, and as many written to ministers or church members. In the entire history of the Church, since it was founded by Jesus Christ more than two thousand years, there was no organization and internal management as there is now. The ministries, directorates, commissions, fees administrative, everything absolutely everything, has been established by the Apostle of Jesus Christ.”
The only way that anyone could make such a comparison is to believe that these 1000+ letter from Samuel Joaquin are equal to or even better than the very Word of God, the Holy Bible.
As for the statement, “In the entire history of the Church….” I guess the 1500+ years of papal control by the Roman Catholic Church does not count as an organization of religion with all of its highly organized “internal management” that has been established around the world centuries before the birth of Aaron and Samuel.
But where in the Holy Scriptures, especially in Paul’s letters, does the Holy Spirit give instructions for a globally control organization?
Answer – No where does the Holy Spirit of God instruct the creation of an earthly physical church to be organized in such a manner. It is only on a local congregational level with in a community that there is to be established a level of organization starting with local Elders, deacons, teachers and preachers and that’s all.
It is amazing how the very description of organization that LLDM is professing to have created by the will of Samuel Joaquin is no where to be found with in the Holy Bible.
But of course he has written over 1000 letters himself.
I would image that if all of the letters he has written are as profound as to even redefine the original plan of church organization as laid out by the Holy Spirit then Samuel should publish such a great work for all to read and study.
Samuel has even had published a new Bible, to be purchased by the LLDM member of course. This new improved Bible is to make life simpler for his flock because it now combines the KJV Bible with the LLDM official hymnairo into one book.
The next logical step for Samuel would be to also add to this new improved Bible all of his 1000+ letters of how the Church, under his authority of course, should really be organized with his “Apostolic Authority”, “Election”, and “Times for Salvation”.
From http://www.lldmhouston.org/historia.html
“El 9 de junio de 1964, Dios llama al descanso eterno a su Apóstol. Ese mismo día, también bajo la autoridad de Dios, el hermano Samuel Joaquín Flores, es llamado al Apostolado para dirigir la Iglesia desde ese día. De todos los hombres que Dios ha enviado a la tierra para dirigir a su pueblo, a quienes Cristo llamó Apóstoles, ninguno ha hecho el trabajo del Apóstol de Jesucristo, nuestro hermano Samuel. En su humildad, el Apóstol de Jesucristo siempre ha respetado el trabajo y enseñanza de los otros Apóstoles, pero ciertamente ninguno de ellos –ni siquiera el Apóstol Pablo- logró lo que él ha logrado. A cuarenta años de administración apostólica ha logrado establecer la Iglesia en 35 naciones. Si descontamos los tres países conquistados por el Apóstol de Jesucristo, el hermano Aarón Joaquín, el hermano Samuel Joaquín ha conquistado entonces 32 naciones. Pero, siendo honestos, el trabajo del hermano Aarón, dejó establecido tan sólo un tres de iglesias en El Salvador, una en Honduras y apenas iniciada la obra en los Estados Unidos, específicamente en San Antonio y Los Ángeles. Así que, las más de 100 iglesias en El Salvador, las cerca de 100 iglesias en Estados Unidos y, otras tantas en Honduras o Costa Rica, son trabajo del Apóstol de Jesucristo, nuestro hermano Samuel Joaquín. A cuarenta años de administración apostólica, el Apóstol de Jesucristo cuenta con más de 1500 colaboradores en los 35 países en donde está presente la Iglesia. El Apóstol Pablo contó con cerca de 20 colaboradores suyos, para cuidar a la Iglesia establecida en los primeros años de la era cristiana. Precisamente en esos años, a principios de la era cristiana, no se pudieron establecer lugares para el culto. El Apóstol de Jesucristo, nuestro hermano Samuel, ha impulsado la construcción de más de 1,000 templos, majestuosos templos, edificados para la Gloria de Dios desde el inicio de su administración. Trece fueron las cartas escritas por el Apóstol Pablo. El Apóstol de Jesucristo, nuestro hermano Samuel, lleva escritas en estos cuarenta años de dirección y gobierno de la Iglesia, cerca de mil cartas a la Iglesia, y otras tantas escritas a Ministros o miembros de la Iglesia.”
This is the epitome of blasphemies! He is better than Paul?! And where are these letters to be included in the Holy Bible?! The Holy Bible is a closed work, and nothing will ever be added! LLDM knows no bounds in their hypocrisy and blatant lies.
May 11th, 2010 at 2:01 pm
And for all LLDM: Read 1 Corinthians 3
We are not to glory in any man! This chapter proves that the person God chooses to preach His word are nobody but a vessel being used. They are not to be honored or glorifed more than that. Christ is to be the focus and the honor always. The corinthian church was a very carnal church and they were boasting in who they believed were the true apostles were and that they had the true one. Paul is saying to them that they are wrong to be boasting in these men. What you and everyone needs to make sure you have is the true Jesus.
May 11th, 2010 at 1:56 pm
Amen Mary, and hallelujah! Everything needed for Salvation and for living a Christian life is in the Bible. Praise God!!
To respond to your question, no David has not been able to answer this aspect of the co-equality between the Father and Son:
ALPHA AND OMEGA (THE FIRST AND THE LAST):
God the Father – “This is what the LORD says— Israel’s King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.” (Isaiah 44:6)
The Son, Christ Jesus – “”To the angel of the church in Smyrna write:
These are the words of him who is the First and the Last, who died and came to life again.”(Revelation 2:8)
May 11th, 2010 at 1:53 pm
“Colin quiso introducir un texto que ni siquiera es. Eso es lo que hacen los testigos, cambian la biblia para que se adapte a su creencia.”
Colin, te acuerdas de un post que escribí sobre un link de una página oficial de La Luz del Mundo, en cual decían que ni siquiera el apóstol Pablo se comparaba a los hechos de Samuel Joaquin? Que según eso había escrito mas de (trying hard not to laugh!) 1,000 cartas a la iglesia mientras que Pablo solo 13?! Ahora, quien es el que quiere CAMBIAR la Biblia???
Es difícil encontrar ese post con mi iPhone. Si tienes chance, enseñale ese post y link de su propia iglesia.
Oh, and Colin? You remember Frank had the same argument about Jesus and God?
Food for thought.
May 11th, 2010 at 1:49 pm
David, If you don’t believe that Jesus is God you will die in your sins according to John 8:24. The verse before proves Jesus is not of this world because He has preexisted. You need to understand the purpose and plan of salvation to understand how God dwelt among us.
Question: If God were to take Samuel J. life then there would be no hope for salvation? That is if God doesnt send another apostle. So Jesus death was in vain? well there is no where in scripture to that up. When there were the multitudes in Acts coming to the faith it was not because the people had to believe in the apostles authority but because of the message being preached about Jesus. It all revolves around Jesus not around the apostles. Apostles are human like you and me. they all sin yes Samuel too. And if you really believe you are restoring primitive church ways then there would be more than one apostle. where is the checks and balances?
I know i know you are on the subject of Jesus Diety but your church has so many things that are unscriptural and versus used out of context. and not to mention doctrine that can’t even be based on scripture. My husband(LLDM member) “not everything is in the bible” well everything needed for salvation is.
Has David answered how Jesus claims to be the alpha and Omega in Revelations? This claim in old testament is said of God!
Don’t make the same mistake the Jews of Jesus day made. Satan is having a field day making people believe Jesus is anything less. Satan knows if he could get you to believe him less he has won.
I hope you grow in the grace and the knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ
May 11th, 2010 at 1:28 pm
John Romero:
If you look back and read post #1139, you will see that David was incorrect about 1 John 5:7 being added to the Bible.
His reference is wrong, because it claims this verse was inserted in 400 B.C. As I referenced in that post, this is not true and we know because there are several documents dated long before that which do make reference to this verse.
David’s assertion from James Bentley is not true, it is merely an assertion.
May 11th, 2010 at 1:24 pm
“He was with God in the beginning”(John 1:2)
David – who was with God in the beginning? The Word. The Word was with God and the Word was God (John 1:1). The Father sent the Son (The Word) and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us (John 1:14).
David – Who is the Word?
David, you say:
“I need to receive his apostles in order to receive him, does he not say this?”
Yes He does say this. But where does the Bible mention Samuel Joaquin Flores as one of the Apostles?
You receive them by receiving their message – the New Testament!
Has God stopped speaking? Well, as far as Gospel Revelations – yes He has stopped speaking. In these last days He has spoken to us through His Son (Hebrews 1:2), so if God spoke from heaven today, He would just say either something that Jesus already said on this earth 2,000 years ago, or He would say something that is already written in the Bible.
He has given us His full and complete revelation in the Old Testament and New Testament, and the final Word was given by the Son. The Bible is complete.
“I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book.”(Revelation 22:18)
The apostles served as the foundation of the emerging church by teaching about Christ Jesus, and by making the New Testament available in written form. In addition to the gospels of Jesus Christ, the New Testament includes the epistles (letters of instruction), for how to carry on in the faith after the apostles had passed.
Should we take anything Samuel has written and add it to the New Testament?
Don’t you realize that Paul and the 12 are dead – but they are still working for Christ to this very day. Isn’t it amazing? Their reputations of suffering for Christ and the works they left behind down here have still been pointing the way to God through Christ for centuries.
The Epistle of Jude bears witness to the 1st century Christian conviction that the days of the apostles and of gospel revelations were foundational and not ongoing. Jude speaks of “the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints” (Jude 3). The expression “once for all” clearly indicates that the “delivery” of the faith is complete, so we should not look for a new revelation. The new teachings of certain persons (Eusebio Gonzales and his son Samuel for example) are to be condemned for this very reason.
“For certain men who were marked out for condemnation long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.”(Jude 4)
The way to avoid the trap of heresy, Jude says, is to “remember the words that were spoken beforehand by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ” (Jude 17). FYI, when Jude wrote his epistle, the only apostle remaining alive was John. All of the apostles at this point were either a phenomenon of the past or fast becoming so.
The Apostle Peter also made it clear that he thought the apostolic period was ending in his day. The epistle of 2 Peter appears to have been written by Peter as he awaited martyrdom. In this epistle, he does not urge his readers to look to the next apostle or apostles for leadership, but rather to simply REMEMBER the apostolic message after he is gone.
“So I will always remind you of these things, even though you know them and are firmly established in the truth you now have. I think it is right to refresh your memory as long as I live in the tent of this body, because I know that I will soon put it aside, as our Lord Jesus Christ has made clear to me. And I will make every effort to see that after my departure you will always be able to remember these things.”(2 Peter 1:12-15)
Just like Jude, Peter also warns of false teachers who will take advantage of the lack of apostolic presence, and “secretly introduce destructive heresies” (2 Peter 2:1). The solution? Peter says it is to “remember the words spoken beforehand by the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior spoken by your apostles”(2 Peter 3:2). They are to seek diligently to follow the teachings of the apostles, particularly Paul, despite the fact that he is often twisted and misinterpreted by “the untaught and unstable”(2 Peter 3:14-16). Therefore, Peter did not look for the continuation of apostolic authority, but rather for the church to follow what the departing apostles had already taught. Like Jude, Peter does not say “listen to the apostles living today”(like LLDM says), but instead urges “Remember what the apostles said”.
David, what is your Biblical logic for listening to “apostles” today and not just following what the Bible says and remembering what the Biblical Apostles said?
May 11th, 2010 at 12:46 pm
Estoy completamente de acuerdo con David, porque quieren cambiar lo que es la palabra? Prubea de eso es que Colin quiso introducir un texto que ni siquiera es. Eso es lo que hacen los testigos, cambian la biblia para que se adapte a su creencia.
May 11th, 2010 at 12:35 pm
See Colin, the Word did not make himself flesh, the Word was MADE flesh, by whom?
May 11th, 2010 at 12:33 pm
The point is the next logical question that would follow: Is the New Testament not complete? Why dont you answer that same question… Has God stopped speaking? If so, then the New Testament is complete.
“If we all would think the way you are thinking now.. that is whay I said, you asked me if God was not powerful enough to save me, because I said My God and Saviour. He is My God and Saviour. “MY” God. Not God’s God, he is Our God and Saviour because all things are subject to him. I thought we went over this already. But My God and Saviour says, I need to receive his apostles in order to receive him, does he not say this?
May 11th, 2010 at 12:28 pm
Who is the Word who became flesh if it is not the Christ – Jesus of Nazareth? No, the Word WHO became flesh is not what the bible says, the bible says And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
The Words Glory like whose? Glory AS OF THE only begotten of the Father.
Full of grace and truth “Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth.” …For this reason we also thank God without ceasing, because when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you welcomed it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God,
v.17 but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ What came throught Jesus Christ? Yes, his word.
May 11th, 2010 at 12:23 pm
David,
first of all, let me point out that you are incorrect in saying that what John the baptist was preaching was not written in the Old Testament. Let’s indeed look at Luke 3:
As is written in the book of the words of Isaiah the prophet:
“A voice of one calling in the desert,
‘Prepare the way for the Lord,
make straight paths for him.
Every valley shall be filled in,
every mountain and hill made low.
The crooked roads shall become straight,
the rough ways smooth.
And all mankind will see God’s salvation.’ “(Luke 3:4-6)
John the baptist was quoting from Isaiah 40:3-5, so John the baptist was preaching the same thing as the prophets in the Old Testament.
Now, you agreed with me when you say “Yes the apostles message was and is written in the New Testament. What is your point?”
The point is the next logical question that would follow: Is the New Testament not complete? Do Samuel Joaquin Flores or his dad Eusebio have anything new that must be added to the New Testament?
Now, you say:
“If we all would think the way you are thinking now, and say God is powerful enough to save all of us, then why would we need Jesus Christ?”
But wait a minute David – this contradicts your own statement from earlier. You already previously acknowledged Jesus Christ as your God and Savior. You wrote “I am praying that my questions and other post get answered, in the name of Jesus Christ, MY God and Saviour.”
Therefore, you have already acknowledged that He is the Person of God, so your question of “if God is powerful enough to save all of us, why do we need Jesus Christ”, is a contradiction in itself.
We need Jesus Christ because God cannot save us on the merits of our own works. No man can offer perfect works, and He cannot save us by imperfect works. That is why we need Jesus Christ – because only He ever offered perfect works by His perfect work on the cross!
Jesus is unique among the members of the Trinity because He is fully God and fully man. As a man, He is the only one in the history of the human race to ever live His whole life in complete and total perfect submission to the Father, and perfect works through His redeeming work on the cross. As God, He extends grace to those who will put their faith in His perfect work on the cross as their redemption so that He Himself may present them to the Father.
May 11th, 2010 at 12:04 pm
Colin, I’d like to take a minute to thank you for this wonderful conversation. It is very rare atleast in person to speak with someone who is willing to talk about the word of God. The JW’s they just never have time.
What was the apostles’ message/word if it is not what is recorded in the New Testament?
The message which they spoke is the word of God. Remember the prophets also spoke the word of God. Jeremiah 1:4 Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying… Now the children of Israel did not want to listen to his word and the presence of God left them. However the old testament was written, the law was written. Now i’ll invite you to read in Lucas 3:2: while Annas and Caiaphas were high priests,[a] the word of God came to John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness. Something to think about, wasn’t the word of God already written in the law or old testament? Didn’t they have the scrolls already? Yes, so why the new mission? “ The voice of one crying in the wilderness:‘ Prepare the way of the LORD; Make His paths straight.5 Every valley shall be filled And every mountain and hill brought low; The crooked places shall be made straight And the rough ways smooth; 6 And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.’” Wasn’t the word of God already written? Ah yes, but the word of God is exactly that: But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’”
Every word that proceeds from the mouth of God. That is why there was great discussion with the disciples of John and the ones from Anas and Caifas, because they were listening to a new word, something that was not written in the old testament.
Again, this is the word of God.
Yes the apostles message was and is written in the New Testament. What is your point?
To your second question, yes, God is able to save me he is all powerful has ALWAYS been.
My friend Colin, salvation does not come from how we want to serve the God or how we think we should serve him, it is how he wants us to serve him. If we all would think the way you are thinking now, and say God is powerful enough to save all of us, then why would we need Jesus Christ? Why would we need God’s Word? Why would we need his apostles? There would be no point right? Well, God is a God of order. And he has established it. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
“He who receives you receives Me, and he who receives Me receives Him who sent Me.
To have ever lasting life, we need to receive the Son in order to receive the Father.
In order to receive the Son we need to receive those who He (The Son) sent. With his word.
What??? Why did the gentiles, jews etc have to receive the apostles, was Jesus not all powerful enough to save them? Yes, of course but Jesus has learned from his Father that there is order.
Must be sad for a gentile in those times to condemn himself simply because he could not believe in Peter or Paul or John…
There is a message and it is written, but not all messages can save, only that of the apostles of Jesus Christ. Galatians 1:6
May 11th, 2010 at 11:22 am
David, re-read post #1139, it should satisfy your curiosity.
I’ve answered every question that you have asked of me. Now, with all due respect, can you please answer the questions you have been asked by me and the others here:
Who is the Word who became flesh if it is not the Christ – Jesus of Nazareth?
“”My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message,”(John 17:20)
What was the apostles’ message/word if it is not what is recorded in the New Testament?
Your Comment regarding “My God”.
“I am praying that my questions and other post get answered, in the name of Jesus Christ, MY God and Saviour.”
Here you are accepting Jesus the Christ as “My God and Savior.” With all respect to you can you answer this question. Is your God unable to save you by His own power or is His power limited?
May 11th, 2010 at 11:08 am
I am curious as to why you would refer to a text that you know does not exist?
May 11th, 2010 at 11:07 am
To further clarify my last comment, I refer back to another of my earlier posts.
God the Father created the heavens and the earth and all that is in them, according to His own will, THROUGH His Son Jesus Christ, by whom all things continue in existence and in operations.
“Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.”(John 1:3)
“He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.”(Colossians 1:15-17)
“but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.”(Hebrews 1:2)
May 11th, 2010 at 10:58 am
David,
Your Comment regarding “My God”.
“I am praying that my questions and other post get answered, in the name of Jesus Christ, MY God and Saviour.”
Here you are accepting Jesus the Christ as “My God and Savior.” With all respect to you can you answer this question. Is your God unable to save you by His own power or is His power limited?
May 11th, 2010 at 10:53 am
David, I did answer you about John 1 already, but to save you the trouble of actually going back and reading what I wrote, I will repost it for you.
Hey David
Yes the “He” in John 1 is the Word God spoke. The Word was with God in the beginning and the Word was God. Through Him (The Word) all things were made that have been made. (John 1:1-2)
But in verse 14, it says “the word became flesh”, so God, the very words which God spoke, became flesh and made His dwelling among us.
Who is the Word who became flesh if it is not the Christ – Jesus of Nazareth?
It seems like I’m the one repeating both answers and questions.
Can you answer this question David? – “”My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message,”(John 17:20)
What was the apostles’ message/word if it is not what is recorded in the New Testament?
BTW, very glad to hear of the dust on your NWT, lol!
May 11th, 2010 at 10:51 am
Wait a minute, theres questions that you have not answered. Please review my post(s). I cannot continue repeating myself because you are avoiding my comments and questions.
May 11th, 2010 at 10:49 am
Yes Colin, Indeed I use the NWT, how else can I prove the Jehovah Witness wrong? They won’t accept any other bible so why not use theirs and prove all their contradictions. LOL. I have to admit, it does collect some dust in my book case.
May 11th, 2010 at 10:31 am
Oh my goodness David one of the Bibles you said you use is
New World Translation (Spanish and English)
Really???? Oh my! While I do use many versions of the Bible, the New World Translation is not one that I would ever use, because it’s a version created only by the watchtower society and does not match any manuscripts anywhere.
May 11th, 2010 at 10:28 am
Can you answer this question David? – “”My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message,”(John 17:20)
What was their message/word if not what is recorded in the New Testament?
Now, David the truth is 1 John 5:7 belongs in the King James Bible and was preserved by faithful Christians. But the passage was removed from many Greek manuscripts, because of the problems it seemed to cause.
It is true that there is a small number of Scriptures that are not the same between the King James Bible and the so-called “Majority” Greek text. There are a number of reasons for this:
The so-called “Majority” text was not really based on the majority of texts, but rather a relatively small number of manuscripts. The last person to try to find the differences between the majority of Greek manuscripts, Dr. Von Soden, did not collate more than 400 of the more than 5,000 Greek texts.
In other words, what is commonly called the “Majority” Greek text is not a collation of the majority of manuscripts at all.
The “Majority” Greek text is also the main Greek text used by the Eastern Orthodox religion.
They had a vested interest in changing (or deleting) some texts. More on this in a moment.
1 John itself is not in a large number of extant Greek manuscripts.
So why then is 1 John 5:7 in the King James Bible and in the Reina Valera version, but not in many of the existing Greek manuscripts? To understand the answer, we must look at the history of what happened shortly after the Bible was written.
During the early growth of the Christian church, ministers (whether saved or not) wrote down doctrines that they said were Christian and Biblical.
Starting after the death of the apostles (about 100 AD) many people taught the lie that Jesus was not God the Son and Son of God, or that Jesus became God at His baptism, or the false doctrine that the Holy Spirit was not God or was not eternal.
The growing religion that became known as Roman Catholic, after many debates eventually agreed on the doctrine of the Trinity. So they had no reason to remove 1 John 5:7 from their Bibles, since it supported what they taught.
But the Greek Eastern Orthodox religion was combating a heresy called “Sabellianism,” and would have found it easier to combat the heresy by simply removing the troubling passage from their Bibles.
But my friend – I’m sorry to say James Bentley, who you referenced, was in error in claiming this verse was inserted in 400 AD. We know this because we find references to 1 John 5:7, from as early as about 160 AD through the 1500s. Here is a useful timeline of references to this verse:
160 AD The word Trinity was first used to describe what’s said in this verse by Theophilus of Antioch to Autolycus.
200 AD Tertullian quoted the verse in his Apology, Against Praxeas.
250 AD Cyprian of Carthage, wrote, “And again, of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost it is written: “And the three are One” in his On The Lapsed, On the Novatians.
350 AD Priscillian referred to it [Corpus Scriptorum Ecclesiasticorum Latinorum, Academia Litterarum Vindobonensis, vol. xviii, p. 6.]
350 AD Idacius Clarus referred to it [Patrilogiae Cursus Completus, Series Latina by Migne, vol. 62, col. 359.]
350 AD Athanasius referred to it in his De Incarnatione
398 AD Aurelius Augustine used it to defend Trinitarianism in De Trinitate against the heresy of Sabellianism
415 AD Council of Carthage appealed to 1 John 5:7 when debating the Arian belief (Arians didn’t believe in the deity of Jesus Christ).
450-530 AD Several orthodox African writers quoted the verse when defending the doctrine of the Trinity against the gainsaying of the Vandals. These writers are:
A) Vigilius Tapensis in “Three Witnesses in Heaven”
B) Victor Vitensis in his Historia persecutionis [Corpus Scriptorum Ecclesiasticorum Latinorum, Academia Litterarum Vindobonensis, vol. vii, p. 60.]
C) Fulgentius in “The Three Heavenly Witnesses” [Patrilogiae Cursus Completus, Series Latina by Migne, vol. 65, col. 500.]
500 AD Cassiodorus cited it [Patrilogiae Cursus Completus, Series Latina by Migne, vol. 70, col. 1373.]
550 AD Old Latin ms r has it
550 AD The “Speculum” has it [The Speculum is a treatise that contains some good Old Latin scriptures.]
750 AD Wianburgensis referred to it
800 AD Jerome’s Vulgate has it [It was not in Jerome's original Vulgate, but was brought in about 800 AD from good Old Latin manuscripts.]
1000s AD miniscule 635 has it
1150 AD minuscule ms 88 has it in the margin
1300s AD miniscule 629 has it
157-1400 AD Waldensian (that is, Vaudois) Bibles have the verse
1500 AD ms 61 has the verse
Even Nestle’s 26th edition Greek New Testament, based upon the corrupt Alexandrian text, admits that these and other important manuscripts have the verse: 221 v.l.; 2318 Vulgate [Claromontanus]; 629; 61; 88; 429 v.l.; 636 v.l.; 918; l; r.
Now the “Waldensian,” or “Vaudois” Bibles stretch from about 157 to the 1400s AD. The fact is that the Vaudois received the Scriptures from missionaries of Antioch of Syria in the 120s AD and finished translating it into their Latin language by 157 AD. This Bible was passed down from generation, until the Reformation of the 1500s, when the Protestants translated the Vaudois Bible into French, Italian, etc.
This Bible carries heavy weight when finding out what God really said.
Who Has the Most to Gain? Who Has the Most to Lose?
The evidence of history shows us that the Roman Catholic religion was relentless in its effort to destroy the Vaudois and their Bible. It took them until the 1650s to finish their hateful attacks. But the Vaudois were successful in preserving God’s words to the days of the Reformation.
Now we have to ask ourselves a question: Who had the most to gain by adding to or taking away from the Bible? Did the Vaudois, who were being killed for having their Bibles, have anything to gain by adding to or taking from the words of God? Compromise is what the Roman religion wanted! Had the Vaudois just followed the popes, their lives would have been much easier. But they counted the cost. This was not politics; it was their life and soul. They above all people would not want to change a single letter of the words they received from Antioch of Syria. And they paid for this with their lives.
What about the “scholars” at Alexandria, Egypt? We already know about them. They could not even make their few 45 manuscripts agree. How could we believe they preserved God’s words?
The Reformation itself owes a lot to these Christians in the French Alps. They not only preserved the Scriptures, but they show to what lengths God would go to keep his promise
“And the words of the LORD are flawless,
like silver refined in a furnace of clay,
purified seven times.
O LORD, you will keep us safe
and protect us from such people forever.
“(Psalm 12:6-7).
And the Vaudois? That’s only part of the story about the preservation of God’s words.
May 11th, 2010 at 10:26 am
By the way Colin, why would you think that La Luz del Mundo only uses RV1960? Let me tell you the bibles that I use, Nacar Colunga “Sagrada Biblia” RV 1960 RV 1995, Biblia del Oso, Biblia de las americas, New World Translation (Spanish and English) King James New King James and NIV. I am sure you being a bible scholar also use various? Good.
May 11th, 2010 at 9:58 am
Shame on you Colin, I thought you were using the bible as your sole truth, now I know you disagree with it. I will answer your tres son los que dan testimonio. And then you will answer these questions. Why did Jesus give this commandment “El que a vosotros recibe a mi me recibe” What does this mean? As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word;. See I agree with your post 1136, I do not know why you think I do not believe in the only True God and his Son Jesus Christ, you do know Jesus died for us don’t you? Well that is the eternal life as stated. Now to your question: “Porque tres son los que dan testimonio en el cielo: el Padre, el Verbo y el Espíritu Santo; y estos tres son uno.”(1 Juan 5:7)
“This verse is in the Reina Valera version of the Bible used by LLDM. The Apostle John says these 3 are 1, and that is the definition of the Trinity.”
Oh my friend, Shame on you trying to deceive the people who read this, I thought you were a bible scholar, if so, you would know that this verse was inserted”1 John 5:7 was only first inserted by the Church into the Bible in the year 400C.E.(Secrets of Mount Sinai, James Bentley, pp. 30-33).”
Let’s read what the Nacar Colunga bible says, you do know what that version is right? Yes, I believe you do, it is the bible that the catholic church uses. And they are trinitarians as you might know. Let’s read beginning with verse 5. Y quien es el que vence al mundo, soino el que cree que Jesus es el Hijo de Dios 6. El es el que viene por el agua y por la sangre, Jesucristo; no en agua solo, sino en el agua y en la sangre, Y es el espiritu el que lo certifica, porque el espiritu es la verdad 7. Porque tres son los que testifican, 8. el espiritu, el agua y la sangre, y los tres se reducen a uno solo…
But for the sake of answer what reina valera’s bible says. Did you by chance get an opportunity to read my stance on John 1. Who is the word? And the Word was made flesh, who made it? What did God’s word become in the beginning? Light etc…
May 11th, 2010 at 3:50 am
David,
may I say I respectfully disagree with what you are trying to derive out of John 17. As we agreed, we need to let the Scripture be our guide so let’s look at what the Bible actually says here.
“After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed: “Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. I have brought you glory on earth by completing the work you gave me to do. And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.”(John 17:1-5)
This is a tremendous prayer, so I would like to discuss all of it. However, since the One I want to introduce the Jesus of the Bible to all members of LLDM, I will this time only discuss the portion above – Jesus prays for Himself. Although what is popularly known as the “Lord’s Prayer” is in Matthew 6:9-13 and Luke 11:2-4, that was actually taught by the Lord Jesus as a pattern for the disciples’ prayers. In my view, the prayer recorded here in John 17 is the true Lord’s Prayer. It exhibits the face to face communion the Son had with the Father. Jesus frequently prayed to the Father, sometimes for full nights with no sleep, but the Bible records very little of the content of His prayers (Matthew 14:23; Luke 5:16). This chapter reveals the most in depth and precious information about the Son’s communion and intercession with the Father, and in the Gospel of John it transitions between the end of Jesus’ earthly ministry and the beginning of His ministry in heaven as mediator for believers (Hebrews 7:25). Let’s peak now at the Son’s interaction with the Father:
“After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed: “Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you.”(John 17:1)
The time of His death had come. The very event that would glorify the Son was His death. By it, He received the adoration, worship, and love of billions whose sin He bore (billions, not millions because all the sins of all the Old Testament saints fell on Him too). He accepted His path to glory, knowing that by it, He would be exalted to the Father. He says glorify your Son (put me to death), that your Son may glorify you. Jesus, by His own glory (His death) sought the glory of His Father. So the Father may be glorified in His redemptive plan in the Son.
“For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him.”(John 17:2)
In regards to the authority over all people He was granted, see my answer to your reference of Matthew 28:18.
As a man, Jesus regained the authority that had been lost to men by the sin of Adam. As God, He gives eternal life to all those His Father has given Him. Verse 2 is clear and the same as what Christopher mentioned before – God has chosen since the beginning all those who will come to Christ. God Himself has elected all those who will come to a saving faith in Christ, and that is the only doctrine of “Divine Election” mentioned in the New Testament (John 15:16,19; Acts 13:48; Romans 8:29-33; Ephesians 1:3-6; 2 Thessalonians 2:13; Titus 1:1; 1 Peter 1:2).
See, Christ has the authority and the power over all people. If He wanted to, He could make every single person on this planet bow to Him. He could make all people obey Him and just make a bunch of zombies and robots out of everybody. But He doesn’t want that. See, the church is God the Father’s love gift to Christ. Whosoever will come – and the Father chose the whosoever. To ALL those the Father has given Him, Christ gives eternal life. Now:
“Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.”(John 17:3)
So this is the eternal life! It’s knowing God and Jesus Christ. There is only 1 Living and true God, and the way we know Him is through Jesus Christ, whom He has sent. See, it’s not how much you know, it’s who do you know.
Do you know Christ? Who are you looking to as your model of God? The eternal life is that we might know God, and we know God by knowing the One who He sent – Christ Jesus.
“I have brought you glory on earth by completing the work you gave me to do. And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.”(John 17:4-5)
Having completed His work, Jesus looked forward now – past the cross to when He would be returned to the glory He had with the Father before the world began.
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning.”(John 1:1-2)
The actual completion of bearing the judgement wrath for sinners was declared by Christ from the cross with the cry “It is finished.”(John 19:30)
LLDM Members, I strongly encourage you to all read the Gospel of John yourselves, praying for only the Holy Spirit to teach you. If you do, He will show you who Christ is and what He did in bearing the judgement of our sins.
It is finished. Amen.
May 11th, 2010 at 2:11 am
David,
I will discuss the Trinity with you again when you can answer me this:
What is the Apostle John saying here?
“Porque tres son los que dan testimonio en el cielo: el Padre, el Verbo y el Espíritu Santo; y estos tres son uno.”(1 Juan 5:7)
This verse is in the Reina Valera version of the Bible used by LLDM. The Apostle John says these 3 are 1, and that is the definition of the Trinity.
Therefore again – what is our source of truth? Is it our reasoning? Our feelings? What a man who says he is an apostle says?
Or is what the Bible ITSELF actually says our source for truth? You said David that the source of truth is the Bible itself, so how can you ignore what the Apostle John said right here?
“Porque tres son los que dan testimonio en el cielo: el Padre, el Verbo y el Espíritu Santo; y estos tres son uno.”(1 Juan 5:7)
May 11th, 2010 at 1:54 am
Hey David, I already answered your question about John 17. But I posed a question in reply to you which you have not answered:
“My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, “(John 17:20)
Jesus is speaking to His Father in heaven throughout all of John 17. Remember at this time, He was a man here on earth, He set aside His prerogatives of Deity and lived a human life in perfect submission to the Father. Jesus is praying throughout all of John 17 – first for himself, then for his apostles (Yes, His Apostles, but don’t get excited – Samuel is not one of them), and then we see beginning here in verse 20, He prays for all believers. He says:
“My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, “(John 17:20)
He prays for those who would believe in Him (Jesus) through their (His Apostles’) message. Now David, what was their message if it is not the New Testament?
May 11th, 2010 at 1:48 am
Hey David,
Let’s look at your reasoning:
#1 – If the Father comes from no one and the Son is begotten by the Father then the Father is before the Son.
But wait a minute David. The Bible says that the Son was “begotten” by the Father when the Father raised Him from the dead.
“”We tell you the good news: What God promised our fathers he has fulfilled for us, their children, by raising up Jesus. As it is written in the second Psalm:
” ‘You are my Son;
today I have begotten you.’ The fact that God raised him from the dead, never to decay, is stated in these words:
” ‘I will give you the holy and sure blessings promised to David.’ So it is stated elsewhere:
” ‘You will not let your Holy One see decay.’”(Acts 13:32-35).
Hebrews 1:5 is a quote from the same Psalm that Paul quoted in his sermon at antioch, and Paul makes it clear that the Son was “begotten” when the Father raised Him from the dead, His body never to see decay. But The Son existed before that.
#2 – If the Father is before the Son and the Holy Spirit comes from both; then the Holy Spirit comes after them.
Where do you get that the Holy Spirit of God comes from the Father and the Son? That’s not what the Bible says.
“Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.”(Genesis 1:2)
The Spirit of God was there in the beginning, hovering over the waters. Where do you get that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son?
#3 – If the Father is before the Son and before the Holy Spirit then neither the Son nor the Holy Spirit are co-eternal.
Well, as I just demonstrated, the Bible does not agree with your reasoning. According to the Bible, they are co-eternal.
What is our source for truth David – what the Bible itself says or your reasoning?
May 11th, 2010 at 1:38 am
Colin, I think the Lord does not agree with you, Read John 17, who is he praying for, who is he giving authority to, who is he giving the word to who is he giving the glory to? Is it not his apostles? But we arent going into details yet, there is still mucho for you to answer. We will have time to discuss the other topics. For now, we must remain on the topic (no jumping around). Remember we are talking about the “trinity”.
May 11th, 2010 at 1:34 am
Colin, my sincerest apologies, now I know your name.
Now let’s reason some more.
The trinity preaches that God is a trinity of persons they are coeternal, coequal, and copowerful. If any one of the three were removed, there would be no God.
So, they are coeternal meaning all three did not have beginning or end, coequal means they are as I said equally the same and copowerful means that none is more powerful than the other.
Reasoning:
If the Father comes from no one and the Son is begotten by the Father then the Father is before the Son.
If the Father is before the Son and the Holy Spirit comes from both; then the Holy Spirit comes after them.
If the Father is before the Son and before the Holy Spirit then neither the Son nor the Holy Spirit are co-eternal.
If the Father does not proceed from anyone and the Son is begotten by the father than the Father is before the Son because the Son is begotten. If he begot him then that means that he was not always his father, he became his father when he begot him.
Hebrews 1:5 for to which of the angels did He ever say: “You are My Son, Today I have begotten You”?
“I WILL BE to Him a Father, And He SHALL BE to Me a Son”?
He was not the Father and Jesus was not the Son until he (God) begot him. That is why the Son is after the Father and the Father is before the Son.
If the Father is before the Son, and the Holy Spirit comes from both, then the Holy Spirit is after them. Why does the Holy Spirit come after them? Because he proceeds them, is born, is derived from them.
They are not coeternal.
May 11th, 2010 at 1:31 am
Allow me to say this kindly to everyone here:
If you do not trust in Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, then the Bible will not make any sense to you.
The reason is because the Bible is all about the Christ. Every page, from Genesis to Revelation – it’s all about Jesus!
“Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. He told them, “This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.”(Luke 24:45-47)
Jesus opened up the disciples’ minds to understand the Scriptures – “Scriptures” here has to be a reference to the Old Testament, because when Jesus did this, the New Testament was not yet written. He told them that it is written in the Old Testament that The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. The disciples of Jesus were first hand eye-witnesses to fulfilled prophecy – the Christ had been written about all through out the Old Testament.
Did you know the first mention of Jesus in the Bible is in Genesis chapter 3 when God cursed satan?
“And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring and hers;
he will crush your head,
and you will strike his heel.”"(Genesis 3:15)
in regards to His human descent, the Lord Jesus Christ was only the offspring of the woman. He is the One who crushes satan’s head, while satan can only strike his heel.
The Old Testament tells you all about Jesus – what race He is, what tribe of that race He is. What family of that tribe of that race He is. The city He would be born in. That He would be born to a virgin in a certain city, at a certain time, to a certain family, of a certain tribe, of a certain race.
There are over 330 precise and detailed prophecies concerning the first coming of Christ to this earth in the Old Testament, and every single one was fulfilled in Jesus exactly down to the last, smallest detail.
But get this – there are over 3,000 precise prophecies concerning the 2nd coming of Christ to this earth in the Old and New Testaments, and every single one is going to be fulfilled.
But if you do not believe what was revealed in His 1st coming – Jesus is the Christ. He is Lord and He is Savior, then His 2nd coming will not be very pleasant for you.
The reason I know this is true (other than the fact that all the Apostles quoted the Old Testament when proving points about Christ and having discovered types in the OT myself),
is because of what Jesus said about the work of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the real author of the whole Bible, so one can only understand the Bible with the Holy Spirit guiding them. And about the work of the Holy Spirit, Jesus said:
“He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you.”(John 16:14)
Your Bible bleeds the blood of Christ on every page. If you do not trust in Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, then the Bible will not make any sense to you.
May 11th, 2010 at 12:21 am
David:
More details in my answer to your post #1124:
You say:
“Now let’s go back to my previous posts to find out why Jesus is God to us, he is not the Father but God to us.”
Again David, what are we using as the basis of truth? You agreed that it is the Bible, correct? Well, you say about Jesus that he is not the Father to us. Is that true according to the Bible?
“Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”
Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?”(John 14:8-9)
Hmm…Jesus said “anyone who has seen me has seen the Father.” Well then, according to Jesus’ own words He doesn’t agree with you David.
Let’s see, does Isaiah agree? What does Isaiah say about Jesus?
“For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.”(Isaiah 9:6)
Oh see now, Isaiah doesn’t agree with you either. If we’re using what the Bible itself actually says as our guide for determining truth from error – then my friend you are in error.
“Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.”(Matthew 28:18)
Well, let’s understand what this really means by going back to Genesis.
“God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”(Genesis 1:28)
When God created the first man, that man was given authority over creation. Adam had authority to rule over every living thing that God had created. God only set down 1 rule, they were not to eat from a certain tree. There was nothing wrong with the fruit on that tree, that was God’s test of that man. And at that time, man completely and absolutely failed. Therefore, man lost that authority through the sin of Adam.
When the Lord Jesus Christ came down to this earth, He became a man. He set aside the prerogatives of His Deity and He took on Himself all of our human weaknesses and flaws. When He was here on this earth, Jesus was tempted in every single way we are yet He was sinless. He was in perfect submission to the Will of His Father who had sent Him, willingly laying down His life trusting in His Father to raise Him from the dead. Because of His perfect servitude of the Father while He was a man here on this earth – Jesus regained what Adam had lost! God gave proof of this when He raised Jesus from the dead, His body never to see decay. That is why He and Only He has all authority in heaven and on earth, because He regained what Adam lost. In Romans, Paul talks about this how in Adam all died, in Christ all shall be made alive. We can’t go through the first Adam, only the last Adam.
That is why only Jesus Christ can intercede to God the Father for your sins. Samuel Joaquin Flores or anyone else well, they just don’t have the authority.
“Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”(Matthew 28:18-20)
According to the history of LLDM, God used a certain man to “restore” the New Testament church in 1926.
Well where was the church, and the truth they were responsible for teaching before God restored it??
Jesus said “I am with you always to the very end of the age,” so if it had to be restored, doesn’t that make Jesus a liar?
If we are using what the Bible itself actually says as our foundation of truth, then LLDM also is in error.
God’s blessings to everyone in the name of Christ Jesus, and may the Holy Spirit remove the veil from the hearts of many to see the truth today.
May 10th, 2010 at 8:57 pm
David,
to avoid any further confusion, I would like to clarify my own belief, as supported by Scripture.
I apologize in advance if this is too long for you to read, but as I said I base truth on what the Bible actually says – the TOTALITY of what it says.
Therefore, allow me to use the Scriptures to illustrate my point. I trust that a fellow Bible scholar like yourself, David will look up all references, and I pray that you will sincerely consider what the Bible says on this topic.
BTW, David I welcome your challenges, and I respect your right to respectfully disagree with me. But I also tell you not to believe me. According to Acts 17:11 – you should not believe me or anyone else, but instead should “examine the Scriptures daily” and prove for yourself what is true.
In my best effort, as guided by the Holy Spirit – this is what the Bible says on this subject.
#1 – God. There is only 1 living and true God.
“The LORD our God is one LORD”(Deuteronomy 6:4),
“I am the LORD, and there is no other;
apart from me there is no God.
I will strengthen you,
though you have not acknowledged me,
so that from the rising of the sun
to the place of its setting
men may know there is none besides me.
I am the LORD, and there is no other.
I form the light and create darkness,
I bring prosperity and create disaster;
I, the LORD, do all these things.”(Isaiah 45:5-7)
“So then, about eating food sacrificed to idols: We know that an idol is nothing at all in the world and that there is no God but one.”(1 Corinthians 8:4).
God is an infinite, all knowing Spirit.
“God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.”(John 4:24).
God is perfect in all attributes, One in essence, eternally existing in 3 Persons – Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
“Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,”(Matthew 28:19)
“May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.”(2 Corinthians 13:14).
Father, Son and Holy Spirit are 1 in being, but 3 in persons and each equally deserving of worship and obedience (Tri-une).
These 3 persons (of the 1 God) are as follows:
God the Father – Orders and disposes all things according to His own purpose and grace.
“The LORD is gracious and compassionate,
slow to anger and rich in love.
The LORD is good to all;
he has compassion on all he has made”(Psalm 145:8-9)
“yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.”(1 Corinthians 8:6).
God the Father is the creator of all things (Genesis 1:1-31)
“and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things”(Ephesians 3:9).
God the Father is the absolute omnipotent ruler of the universe. He is sovereign in creation, providence, and redemption
“The LORD has established his throne in heaven,
and his kingdom rules over all”(Psalm 103:19)
“For from him and through him and to him are all things.
To him be the glory forever! Amen.”(Romans 11:36).
His Fatherhood involves both His relationship within the Trinity and His relationship with mankind.
As creator He is Father to all men “one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.”(Ephesians 4:6), but He is Spiritual Father only to believers “”I will be a Father to you,
and you will be my sons and daughters, says the Lord Almighty.”"(2 Corinthians 6:18).
“because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.”(Romans 8:14)
He has decreed for His own glory all things that come to pass.
“In him we were also made heirs, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will,”(Ephesians 1:11).
He continually upholds, directs, and governs all creatures and events “”(1 Chronicles 29:11).
In His Sovereignty, He is neither author nor approver of sin (Habakkuk 1:13), nor does He abridge the accountability of moral, intelligent creatures (1 Peter 1:17).
He has graciously chosen from eternity past those whom He would have as His own (Ephesians 1:4-6).
He saves from sin all those who come to Him through Jesus Christ; He adopts as His own all those who come to Him, and He becomes upon adoption, Father to His own.
“Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—”(John 1:12)
“For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship. And by him we cry, “Abba, Father.”(Romans 8:15)
“to redeem those under law, that we might receive the full rights of sons.”(Galatians 4:5)
“And you have forgotten that word of encouragement that addresses you as sons:
“My son, do not make light of the Lord’s discipline,
and do not lose heart when he rebukes you,
because the Lord disciplines those he loves,
and he punishes everyone he accepts as a son.”
Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as sons. For what son is not disciplined by his father? If you are not disciplined (and everyone undergoes discipline), then you are illegitimate children and not true sons. Moreover, we have all had human fathers who disciplined us and we respected them for it. How much more should we submit to the Father of our spirits and live!”(Hebrews 12:5-9)
God the Son – Jesus Christ – possesses all divine excellencies, and in these He is co-equal, cosubstantial, and co-eternal with the Father.
“I and the Father are one.”(John 10:30)
“Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?”(John 14:9)
God the Father created the heavens and the earth and all that is in them, according to His own will, THROUGH His Son Jesus Christ, by whom all things continue in existence and in operations.
“Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.”(John 1:3)
“He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.”(Colossians 1:15-17)
“but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.”(Hebrews 1:2)
For the incarnation (God becoming man), Christ surrendered only the prerogatives of deity, but nothing of the divine essence, either in degree or in kind. He was completely and totally God in human flesh. In His incarnation, the eternally existing Son of God accepted all the essential characteristics of humanity and so became the God-man.
“Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:
Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
but made himself nothing,
taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
and became obedient to death—
even death on a cross!”(Philippians 2:5-8)
“For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,”(Colossians 2:9).
““Look!” he answered, “I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire; and they are not hurt, and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.”(Daniel 3:25)
Jesus Christ represents humanity and deity in indivisible oneness (Micah 5:2, John 5:23, 14:9-10; Colossians 2:9)
our Lord Jesus Christ was virgin born (Isaiah 7:14, Matthew 1:23,25; Luke 1:26-35).
He was God incarnate (John 1:1,14).
The purpose of the incarnation was to reveal God, redeem mankind, and rule over God’s kingdom (Psalm 2:7-9; Isaiah 9:6; Philippians 2:9-11; Hebrews 7:25-26; 1 Peter 1:18-19)
“The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!”(John 1:29).
In the incarnation, Jesus Christ laid aside His right to the full prerogatives of coexistence with God, assumed the place of a Son, and took on an existence appropriate to a servant while never divesting Himself of His divine attributes.
“Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.”(Philippians 2:5-8)
Our Lord Jesus Christ accomplished our redemption through the shedding of His blood and sacrificial death on the cross. His death was voluntary, vicarious, substitutionary, propitiatory, and redemptive (Romans 3:24-25, Romans 5:8; 1 Peter 2:24)
“just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep.”(John 10:15)
On the basis of the efficacy of the death of Our Lord Jesus Christ, the believing sinner is freed from the punishment, penalty, power, and one day the very presence of sin; and is declared righteous, given eternal life, and adopted into the family of God (Romans 3:25, 5:8-9, 2 Corinthians 5:14-15, 1 Peter 2:24, 3:18)
“For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit,”(1 Peter 3:18)
Our justification as redeemed sinners is made sure by Christ’s literal, physical resurrection from the dead and He is now ascended to the right hand of the Father, where He now mediates as our advocate and High Priest (Matthew 28:6, Luke 24:38-39, Acts 2:30-31, Romans 4:25, 8:34, Hebrews 7:25, 9:24).
“My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous, and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world” (1 John 2:1-2)
In the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the grave, God confirmed the Deity of His Son and gave proof that God has accepted the atoning work of Christ on the cross. Jesus’ bodily resurrection is also the guarantee of a future resurrection life for all believers (John 5:26-29; 14:19; Romans 4:25, 6:5-10; 1 Corinthians 15:23)
“But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.”(1 Corinthians 15:20)
Jesus Christ will return to receive the church, which is His body, unto Himself at the Rapture and, returning with His church in glory, will establish His millennial kingdom on earth (Acts 1:9-11; Revelation 20).
“Brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who fall asleep, or to grieve like the rest of men, who have no hope. We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. According to the Lord’s own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. Therefore encourage each other with these words.”(1 Thessalonians 4:13-18).
The Lord Jesus Christ is the one through whom God will judge all mankind (John 5:22,23): Believers (1 Corinthians 3:10-15; 2 Corinthians 5:10); Living inhabitants of the earth at His glorious return (Matthew 5:31-46); and Unbelieving dead at the Great White Throne (Revelation 20:11-15).
As the mediator between God and man (1 Timothy 2:5), the head of His body the church (Ephesians 1:22; 5:23; Colossians 1:18), and the coming universal King who will reign on the throne of David (Isaiah 9:6-7, Ezekiel 37:24-28, Luke 1:31-33), He is the final judge of all who fail to place their trust in Him as Lord and Savior (Matthew 25:14-46; Acts 17:30-31).
God the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is a divine person, eternal, underived, possessing all the attributes of personality and deity, including intellect (1 Corinthians 2:10-13), emotions (Ephesians 4:30), will (1 Corinthians 12:11), eternality (Hebrews 9:14), omnipresence (Psalm 139:7-10), omniscience (Isaiah 40:13-14), omnipotence (Romans 15:13), and truthfulness (John 16:13).
In all the divine attributes He is coequal and cosubstantial with the Father and Son (Matthew 28:19, Acts 5:3-4, 28:25-26; 1 Corinthians 12:4-6; Jeremiah 31:31-34, Hebrews 10:15-17).
“May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.”(2 Corinthians 13:14)
It is the work of the Holy Spirit to execute the divine will with relation to all mankind. His activity included sovereign participation in the creation (Genesis 1:2), in the incarnation (Matthew 1:18), in the written revelation (2 Peter 1:20-21), and in the work of Salvation (John 3:5-7).
“Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: when His mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found to be with child by the Holy Spirit”(Matthew 1:18)
“Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation. For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.”(2 Peter 1:20-21)
A unique work of the Holy Spirit in this age began at Pentecost when He came from the Father as promised by Christ (John 14:16-17, 15:26) to initiate and complete the building of the body of Christ.
His activity includes convicting the world of sin, of righteousness and of judgement; glorifying the Lord Jesus Christ and transforming believers to be conformed to His image (John 16:7-9; Acts 1:5, 2:4, Romans 8:29, 2 Corinthians 3:18).
“And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.”(Ephesians 2:22)
The Holy Spirit is the sovereign and supernatural agent in regeneration, baptizing all believers into the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:13).
The Holy Spirit also dwells within, sanctifies, instructs, empowers them for service, and seals them until the day of redemption (Romans 8:9-11, Ephesians 1:13)
“who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.”(2 Corinthians 3:6)
The Holy Spirit is the divine teacher who guided the Apostles and Prophets into all truth as they committed to writing God’s revelation, the Bible (2 Peter 1:19-21). Every believer possesses the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit from the moment of salvation, and it is the duty of all those born of the Spirit to be filled with (controlled by) the Holy Spirit (Romans 8:9-11; Ephesians 5:18).
“But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you all know.”(1 John 2:20)
“As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him”(1 John 2:27)
The Holy Spirit administers spiritual gifts to the church. The Holy Spirit glorifies neither himself nor his gifts by ostentatious displays, but He does glorify Christ by implementing His work of redeeming the lost and building up believers in the most holy faith (John 16:13-14, Acts 1:8, 1 Corinthians 12:4-11).
“But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, who is the Spirit.”(2 Corinthians 3:18).
In this respect, God the Holy Spirit is sovereign in the bestowing of all His gifts for the perfecting of the saints today. Speaking in tongues and the working of sign miracles in the beginning days of the church were for the purpose of pointing to and authenticating the Biblical Apostles as revealers of divine truth, and were never intended to be characteristic of the lives of believers (1 Corinthians 12:4-11, 13:8-10; 2 Corinthians 12:12; Ephesians 4:7-12).
“We must pay more careful attention, therefore, to what we have heard, so that we do not drift away. For if the message spoken by angels was binding, and every violation and disobedience received its just punishment, how shall we escape if we ignore such a great salvation? This salvation, which was first announced by the Lord, was confirmed to us by those who heard him. God also testified to it by signs, wonders and various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will.”(Hebrews 2:1-4).
And there you have it.
May 10th, 2010 at 8:28 pm
David,
First of all, my name is Colin. Micael Cano is another person who posted here, and I was addressing his comments. I don’t take offense to the fact that you did not properly read my comment to understand that.
Now, initially, you brought up Hebrews 1:5, so what I did was show you the whole chapter and other parallel Scriptures which make it clear that this:
“For to which of the angels did God ever say,
“You are my Son;
today I have become your Father”? Or again,
“I will be his Father,
and he will be my Son”?”(Hebrews 1:5)
does not refer to when Jesus was born in Bethlehem, but it refers to when God the Father raised Jesus from the dead. Paul quoted the same thing and makes it’s meaning very clear in Acts 13.
Unless I misunderstood you, the basis of your question was “if Jesus is God, how can this be? Doesn’t it mean that the Father was before and Jesus was after?”
But no, actually the totality of Scripture reveals that this is a reference to when the Father raised Jesus alive from the grave, His body never to see decay. We all know Jesus was around before then.
“”We tell you the good news: What God promised our fathers he has fulfilled for us, their children, by raising up Jesus. As it is written in the second Psalm:
” ‘You are my Son;
today I have become your Father.’ The fact that God raised him from the dead, never to decay, is stated in these words:
” ‘I will give you the holy and sure blessings promised to David.’ So it is stated elsewhere:
” ‘You will not let your Holy One see decay.’”(Acts 13:32-35)
Please clarify how this does not answer your question?
Now, in your most recent post, you make a reference to Moses. Let’s compare what God said to Moses and what God says to the Son, Christ Jesus.
Moses –
“He will speak to the people for you, and it will be as if he were your mouth and as if you were God to him.”(Exodus 4:16)
Now, He does not say Moses is God, He says it will be “as if you were God.” He does not promise Moses any throne or any kingdom.
Compare to what God the Father says to the Son –
“But about the Son he says,
“Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever,
and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.”(Hebrews 1:8)
This is very very different from what He said to Moses. To Moses He said it will be “as if you were God.” But to the Son, He calls Him God. He tells the Son “Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever,” Moses was not called God. Moses was not promised a throne that would last forever and ever. “and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.”
The Son is called God by God the Father Himself. He is told that His throne will last forever and ever, and that He will rule His kingdom in righteousness. Moses was never told that.
Hebrews chapter 3 goes into much more detail about how Jesus is superior to Moses.
Now, David – I think that perhaps you are misunderstanding me. I never said the Son was greater than the Father. Father, Son and Holy Spirit are co-equal. You see, these 3 are really just 1.
“Porque tres son los que dan testimonio en el cielo: el Padre, el Verbo y el Espíritu Santo; y estos tres son uno.”(1 Juan 5:7)
May 10th, 2010 at 7:33 pm
I am praying that my questions and other post get answered, in the name of Jesus Christ, MY God and Saviour.
May 10th, 2010 at 7:32 pm
Here’s to hoping my questions are answered as well as my previous post… In the name of Jesus Christ, my God and Saviour.
May 10th, 2010 at 7:31 pm
I am not avoiding what the bible says, when have I done so? Please answer my questions because many go unanswered, let’s reason with the scripture, you brought up John 1 and I answered. You have not replied to my answer of John 1. Anyhow, I will answer Hebrews 1:8, first, let see where this quote was taken from. I invite you to read in (Psalms 45:6-7 Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.7 You love righteousness and hate wickedness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.) Let’s plug the words in, Therefore Jesus, your God…. Who’s God? So God has a God? Or Jesus has a God? Could this God be also his father? Yes, indeed, we are getting somewhere. Now let’s understand why Jesus is called God. Exodus 4:16 So he shall be your spokesman to the people. And he himself shall be as a mouth for you, and you shall be to him as God. What? Moses as God? So Aaron will have a God and God will have a God? Yes. What God is trying to say is that he will have authority over him. Now let’s go back to my previous posts to find out why Jesus is God to us, he is not the Father but God to us. Mathew 28:18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. What was given to him? All authority, again who gave it to him? Jesus gave this to himself or did God give this to his son? So now that Jesus has all authority, what does that make him? God.
1 Corinthians 15:27 For “He has put all things under His feet.” But when He says “all things are put under Him,” it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. 28 Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all. Again, why is he God? Because God (Father) has put all things under His feet. When he says all things, he includes you and I too. So to us, who rules over everything, Jesus. But Jesus knows and I know, that there is someone greater than him, his Father. Then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.
As you said, let us read a few verses back, Titus 2 10 not pilfering, but showing all good fidelity, that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Savior in all things. Why is he our God? Because the good Lord Jesus Christ, He saved us. 13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, Whose great God? Our Great God! His Father’s?, No, sorry Our Great God.
Wow, this post is getting a little long. You see my good friend Micael, Cano, Collins whoever you are (with respect). Jesus is Our God. Not the Father’s God. He is Our God. Yes, because he is ruling over everything.
May 10th, 2010 at 6:58 pm
Hey David
Yes the “He” in John 1 is the Word God spoke. The Word was with God and the Word was God.
But in verse 14, it says “the word became flesh”
Who is the word who became flesh if it is not the Christ – Jesus of Nazareth?
May 10th, 2010 at 6:43 pm
David,
Ok, if your standard for measuring truth is what the Bible itself actually says, then don’t avoid what the Bible actually says about the Son.
“but about the Son He says ‘your throne, O God, is forever and ever’(Hebrews 1:8)
“our great God and Savior Jesus Christ”(Titus 2:13)
Isaiah 9:6, and Revelation 1:18 too. The Bible itself says that the Son Jesus is God. I didn’t say that, I didn’t write any of these things. The Bible itself says this.
How can you deny it if the Bible is your standard for truth?
May 10th, 2010 at 6:33 pm
Because “He” is God speaking. When God speaks, things happen for instance, God spoke about light and that word became light. Etc.
Believe me I do not avoid any portion of the bible, what happened is that you started going off to another subject, as you say, time is short and not enough time. Maybe if you kept the post a bit shorter and not 11 pages like that last I could answer the questions in a more timely manner, however If we continue with your post pretty soon it will be not 11 pages but 15, then 20, then 30 etc. Question at a time. Remember we are not mormons or JW (atleast I think you are not). Discussing the aspects of God, my friend, you clearly disregarded my previous post please read 1106
David Says:
May 8th, 2010 at 9:44 am
May 10th, 2010 at 6:26 pm
David,
Well, that is a question I have always asked everyone I speak with. I do not use a book of mormon or the atalaya, the only book I use is the law and the testament. Remember his thoughts are not our thoughts.
Is the standard of truth which you use the Bible itself, and what the Scriptures themselves actually say? Yes of course, have I not provided text from the bible?
Or is the standard of truth which you use the thoughts and interpretations of Samuel Joaquin Flores about what the Bible means?
That’s a silly question. Everything you have replied is it your interpretation or is it God’s? If yours, then why this question, if it is God’s how do you know that?
David,
I use what the Scripture actually says as the standard for determining all truth. Do you go by the same standard of truth?
I think I have proven to you that I use the bible as the truth.
May 10th, 2010 at 3:25 pm
David,
Before I continue discussing anything with you, or reasoning from the Scriptures any more with you, there is something I need to clarify with you.
What do we use as the basis for determining truth and falsehood?
Is the standard of truth which you use the Bible itself, and what the Scriptures themselves actually say?
Or is the standard of truth which you use the thoughts and interpretations of Samuel Joaquin Flores about what the Bible means?
David,
I use what the Scripture actually says as the standard for determining all truth. Do you go by the same standard of truth?
May 10th, 2010 at 3:11 pm
David,
Why does the Apostle John refer to the Word as “He” in John 1:2? You see, Jesus is God because He is the very Word of God made flesh. The very word that God spoke to create this universe became flesh and dwelt among us (John 1:14) – that is Jesus!
I don’t have time right now to go into elaborate detail, I will later.
However, I must ask – why did you avoid addressing Hebrews 1:8?
“But ABOUT THE SON he says,
“Your throne, O GOD, will last for ever and ever,
and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.”(Hebrews 1:8)
why did you avoid discussing the aspects of God and Jesus?
OMNISCIENT:
God the Father – “Great is our Lord and mighty in power;
his understanding has no limit.”(Psalm 147:5)
The Son, Jesus Christ – “Now we can see that you know all things and that you do not even need to have anyone ask you questions. This makes us believe that you came from God.””(John 16:30)
“”I tell you the truth,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!””(John 8:58)
This is a tremendous statement Jesus made about Himself. First of all, notice He doesn’t say “before Abraham was born I was”. What He says is “before Abraham was born I am!” Meaning that He existed before Abraham was born. He wasn’t born before Abraham, but He existed before that. Now you might say “yes, He existed in the mind of God”, but no my friend He existed AS God. He says “I AM” referring to Himself. The Jews knew exactly what Jesus was saying to them when He said this, because they had all read:
“God said to Moses, “I am who I am. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I AM has sent me to you.’ “”(Exodus 3:14).
Jesus was identifying Himself as the very same “I AM” who spoke to Moses.
SAVIOR:
God the Father – “I, even I, am the LORD,
and apart from me there is no savior.”(Isaiah 43:11)
The Son, Jesus Christ – “while we wait for the blessed hope—the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good.”(Titus 2:13-14).
ALPHA AND OMEGA (THE FIRST AND THE LAST):
God the Father – “This is what the LORD says— Israel’s King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.” (Isaiah 44:6)
The Son, Christ Jesus – “”To the angel of the church in Smyrna write:
These are the words of him who is the First and the Last, who died and came to life again.”(Revelation 2:8)
May 10th, 2010 at 2:43 pm
Hey, David wait a minute.
You write:
“”My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message,”(John 17:20)
Yes, Jesus says “their message” referring to the message the apostles would bring. What is the message the apostles brought? Is it not the New Testament?
Does Samuel Joaquin have anything to add to the New Testament?
Nehemiah 9:6 You alone are the LORD; You have made heaven, The heaven of heavens, with all their host, The earth and everything on it, The seas and all that is in them, And You preserve them all.
Psalm 33:6 By the word of the LORD the heavens were made, And all the host of them by the breath of His mouth.
Nehemiah says it was God who made the heavens, and Psalms says it was by the word of the Lord.”
Yes, it was God who made the heavens by the Word of the Lord. But who is the Word of the Lord?
It was created by The Word of the Lord. Now, with that in mind let’s look at John 1:
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that has been made.”(John 1:1-3)
Who is the Word who was with God in the beginning and was God?
“The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us.”(John 1:14)
Who is the Word who became flesh and made His dwelling among us?
May 10th, 2010 at 1:45 pm
Micael,
Ok, let’s reason, I think we should stay with the same subject, I have had several discussions with evangelical groups and they all seem to sway away. So the whole angel thing, we’ll leave that for another time. I do not want to think you are a Mormon or a Jehovah witness who fires of verse after verse topic after topic without fully understanding them.
—-The literal translation here is “but in these last days God spoke to us in the Son…” We see here, that He is saying that He has “in these last days he has spoken to us”, and the ‘us’ here, is very important to realize, that it’s the same “us” of whom He spoke to their forefathers by the prophets in the Old Testament. Therefore, these were Hebrew believers. And if God has given His final Word in the Lord Jesus Christ, then it is also the final Word you you and me today. Remember the Father out of Heaven said “this is My beloved Son, listen to Him!” —–
Yes Indeed he did say this is My beloved son, listen to him, and then Jesus Himself says “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word;
Who does He refer to when he says their word? Is it not His apostles? Did He not give them His word? I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. 19 And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth. And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: 23 I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me. Wow, these are pretty clear words of the relationship that the Apostles have with Christ and the relationship Christ has with his apostles. Shall we call this the “perfect unity”? To me that same love God showed Jesus, he shows to his apostles. That same word by which all things were made, he has given that to his apostles.
—–He is the One that is before us. Now, it says He has spoken to us by His Son. Therefore, Christ is superior to any of the Old Testament writers, because the revelation is filled up in Him—-
Fully agree! Blessed be the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
—-He fulfills all of the Old Testament, and He Himself gives God’s final Word to man. If God spoke from heaven today, He would just say something that Jesus has already said. Because of the fact that the Final Word came through the Son of God when He was here some 1900 and some odd years ago. —-
Yes the final word has been given, remember heaven and earth pass but his word remains forever. Look the doctrine that Jesus brought is not even his, it was his father’s, Jesus[c] answered them and said, “My doctrine is not Mine, but His who sent Me. God used the prophets, Jesus and his apostles to reveal his word to men. But the word has always been God’s.
—–And as He himself said, The Spirit of God will take the things of Christ and show them to us. And the Spirit of God – speaking through John and James, and Simon Peter, and Jude, and Matthew, and Mark, and Dr. Luke and Paul – has given us the full and complete revelation from God.
—-Now, He shows the superiority of the Son in 7 unmatched statements about Him here. “but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.”(Hebrews 1:2) —-
Superiority to whom? If you say men, then I fully agree if you say that he is superior to his father then you might have understood wrong, 1 Corinthians 15 27 But when He says “all things are put under Him,” it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. 28 Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.
2 of the statements are here in verse 2. #1 – “whom He appointed heir of all things.” That reveals the program for the future. The Lord Jesus Christ is the heir of all things.
Heir of all things that pertained to who? Jesus inherits the things that belonged to God his Father.
—-But there is something else here as well that we should look at very carefully. John said that all things were made by Him, and without Him nothing was made that has been made.
Ah, this is where you are wrong, all things were made by Him is referring to God and his word.
“Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.”(John 1:3).—–
Let’s look into this verse a little longer.
—-In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. —-
Nehemiah 9:6 You alone are the LORD; You have made heaven, The heaven of heavens, with all their host, The earth and everything on it, The seas and all that is in them, And You preserve them all.
Psalm 33:6 By the word of the LORD the heavens were made, And all the host of them by the breath of His mouth.
Nehemiah says it was God who made the heavens, and Psalms says it was by the word of the Lord.
Now let’s go back to those first verses in Hebrews 1 For every house is built by someone, but He who built all things is God.
2 Peter 3:5 For this they willfully forget: that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water, 6 by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water. 7 But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
Was it God or was it his word? A. The word is God, isn’t that what John 1 says?
4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
John 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.
What is that word? Life
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
The words glory is like whose? Who is the only begotten of the Father? Jesus and what was that words glory like? Like Jesus, it does not say that it was Jesus glory but a glory like that of Jesus’.
May 10th, 2010 at 11:25 am
“It All Starts with God”
(John 6:65) – “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him.” Jesus the Messiah speaking to the multitudes.
The faith that is needed to believe is a gift from God. In order to be enabled to believe we must first be given the gift of faith (Eph 2:8). There is no work that we can do to find our faith it has to come from God. God gives it to those that knows will serve His plan for salvation. Yes, He loves the world, He created it. But He also knows that not all He created will sever His will, His Plan, even angels that He created and knew His glory first hand and rejected Him as did Sodom and Gomorra and the world of the time of Noah. Did He love them? Yes, He did just as He still loves the world and those whom He knows will never accept His gift of faith from Him and just as in days of old, He will have no chose but to remove them from His presences into the lake of fire where the fallen angles are already as well Satan and all who despise the Love of God.
What this all comes down to is this; faith comes by hearing the word of God, the Lord Jesus, and all will receive the free gift of faith which only can come from the Father if they hear the true Word. Until one truly hears the word they will not be “enabled” by the Father to receive the free gift of faith and be marked with His Holy Spirit and therefore will not be able to learn the truths of God. THE POWER IS IN THE WORD AND IS THE KEY TO THE WHOLE THING! AMEN
So long as LLDM members are listening to a false teachings they will not be able to hear the true Words from the Father and the Father will not be able to enable them to receive the free gift of a true faith that calls on the Lord Jesus alone they lead to salvation.
May 10th, 2010 at 7:32 am
Frank,
Thanks for your concern. But I do understand that I will not convince anyone, because convincing them is not my responsibility. I am responsible only to speak the truth, the Holy Spirit Himself will convince who He wills. I do hope that He will choose to open the hearts of the lost souls in LLDM.
In regards to Jeziel’s last comment:
Jeziel – The name (authority) of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is the same. But the name we call them each is not the same.
If “Jesus Christ” is the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit – then this greeting from Paul doesn’t make any sense:
“Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.”(1 Corinthians 1:3)
Now, although they are both “God/Lord”, Paul distinguishes between the Father and the Son. There is a similar greeting distinguishing between the persons of the Father and Son in every single epistle.
If they all 3 are named “Jesus Christ”, then also this writing from Dr. Luke doesn’t make any sense:
“and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?”
They answered, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”"(Acts 19:2)
These people believed in the Person of Jesus Christ. But they did not know about the Holy Spirit. But if “Jesus Christ” is the name of the Holy Spirit too, then this doesn’t make any sense that they had not heard there is a Holy Spirit.
There’s several problems with that claim Scripturally, and just too many places in the Bible where it’s contradicted.
The Father is not the Son, nor is the Son the Father, and neither the Father nor the Son are the Holy Spirit. But all 3 are co-equal, co-eternal, co-existant as God. They are 3, but they are 1. They all have the same “name” (authority), but separate “namesakes” they are called, and separate duties and functions of each.
Jeziel, may the wisdom of the Holy Spirit come upon you, and “Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.”(1 Corinthians 1:3)
“Porque tres son los que dan testimonio en el cielo: el Padre, el Verbo y el Espíritu Santo; y estos tres son uno.”(1 Juan 5:7)
Translation: “For there are 3 who testify in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these 3 are 1.”(1 John 5:7)
May 9th, 2010 at 8:43 pm
Colin,
I think it is a waste of time to try convincing a fanatical member of LLDM to reason of a different explanation of the Divinity that the one they have been thought by the ministry in their congregation.
One big reason is that there are different interpretations of the Divinity even between members of the hierarchy that define the “doctrine” in LLDM.
Another one is that their source of “revelation” which is considered to be only Samuel Joaquín Flores, NEVER, NEVER has given the last word about it. He always rely on his “doctors” and “prophets” elevated to that honorary titles by himself.
Samuel does not want to be exposed to ridicule exposing his teachings about the Divinity to public scrutiny. He has been always in the shadows, listening to his “masters” to see which one is the most assertive and close to what he thinks is the truth.
Wouldn’t be he (SJF) the most appropriate one to teach these fundamental doctrines to his flock if he would be the recipient of an authentic revelation? Then I ask, Why Samuel does not teach LLDM as Paul used to expose his knowledge about the Gospel and the Divinity of Jesus Christ in a clear, coherent and permanent way like an epistle?
May 9th, 2010 at 6:51 pm
“AUTHOR: Micael Cano- Real Name
This blog, produced by Oscar Nuno, is nothing but a meaningless contemptuous effort to ruin someone’s reputation. In fact, his disdain attempt can compare to the immaturity of a cyber bully. Yet, no one has been harmed, thank the living God. His haughty behavior in expressing his thoughts has been mere slander.”
Micael, listen to James:
“With the tongue we praise our Lord and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in God’s likeness. Out of the same mouth come praise and cursing. My brothers, this should not be.”(James 3:9-10)
AUTHOR: Jeziel Granados – “(We believe in Jesus Christ. Most of all, we believe in Samuel Joaquin leading us to that salvation through Christ. No take that back, MOST OF ALL, we believe in the NAME OF Jesus CHRIST. We don’t believe in any pagan Name of any Father, and Son, and any Spirit. We believe in the name of Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit, that being Jesus CHRIST. Whoever can’t believe this stands condemned.”
Wait a minute. To verify – you say that “Jesus Christ” is the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The name of all 3 is Jesus Christ? I don’t think so. Would you please clarify how do you get that understanding from reading John chapters 1 through 3?
The Father is called “the Father of heavenly lights” – “Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows.”(James 1:17)
The Father is called “the Holy one of Israel” – “This is what the Sovereign LORD, the Holy One of Israel, says:
“In repentance and rest is your salvation,
in quietness and trust is your strength,
but you would have none of it.”(Isaiah 30:15)
The Holy Spirit is called “The Spirit of the Sovereign Lord” (Isaiah 61:1), “The Spirit of the Living God”(2 Corinthians 3:3).
“For this reason I kneel before the Father, from whom his whole family in heaven and on earth derives its name. I pray that out of his glorious riches he may strengthen you with power through his Spirit in your inner being, so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. And I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, may have power, together with all the saints, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ, and to know this love that surpasses knowledge—that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God.”(Ephesians 3:14-19).
The Father dispenses grace, but the Holy Spirit delivers it. He is the administrator of grace to those whose faith is in the Christ alone, which culminates in glory.
Now, the Son – His name is not “Jesus Christ.” His name, according to His human name is Yeshua, the Greek form of Joshua (which means the LORD Saves). Translated into English it is Jesus – Jesus of Nazareth. “She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins.”.
“Christ” is His title. Both the Word “Christ” (Greek) and the word “Messiah” (Hebrew) mean “Anointed One.” Jesus is the Christ, the One whom God has Anointed to be the Savior of the World!
And now, gentlemen, you have been shown the truth about what you have been raised to believe by Samuel Joaquin. I have nothing further to say, but please listen to what the Apostle John said about such men:
“Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist—he denies the Father and the Son. No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.
See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. And this is what he promised us—even eternal life.
I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray. As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him.”(1 John 2:22-27)
Heavenly Father, please bless both of these young men – Jeziel and Micael, with the wisdom of the Holy Spirit and the courage to make a stand for Christ Jesus alone. In Jesus’ name I pray, Amen.
May 9th, 2010 at 6:22 pm
David,
Thank you for your response. Let us indeed reason from the Scriptures about God and Jesus.
Hebrews 1:5. First of all thank you for referring to the very wonderful epistle to the Hebrews so we have an opportunity to look closer at this marvelous section of Scripture. But, wait a minute, this is verse 5, let’s backup and look at this complete passage from the beginning. The dividing of chapters and verses came from man, not God. When Hebrews was written, it was a letter of instruction to Jewish (Hebrew) Christians at the time. But it’s teaching is for all Christians today, so we must read this letter from the intro to understand what the author is telling us here.
“In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.”(Hebrews 1:1-2).
The literal translation here is “but in these last days God spoke to us in the Son…” We see here, that He is saying that He has “in these last days he has spoken to us”, and the ‘us’ here, is very important to realize, that it’s the same “us” of whom He spoke to their forefathers by the prophets in the Old Testament. Therefore, these were Hebrew believers. And if God has given His final Word in the Lord Jesus Christ, then it is also the final Word you you and me today. Remember the Father out of Heaven said “this is My beloved Son, listen to Him!”
He is the One that is before us. Now, it says He has spoken to us by His Son. Therefore, Christ is superior to any of the Old Testament writers, because the revelation is filled up in Him. He fulfills all of the Old Testament, and He Himself gives God’s final Word to man. If God spoke from heaven today, He would just say something that Jesus has already said. Because of the fact that the Final Word came through the Son of God when He was here some 1900 and some odd years ago. And as He himself said, The Spirit of God will take the things of Christ and show them to us. And the Spirit of God – speaking through John and James, and Simon Peter, and Jude, and Matthew, and Mark, and Dr. Luke and Paul – has given us the full and complete revelation from God.
Now, He shows the superiority of the Son in 7 unmatched statements about Him here. “but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.”(Hebrews 1:2)
2 of the statements are here in verse 2. #1 – “whom He appointed heir of all things.” That reveals the program for the future. The Lord Jesus Christ is the heir of all things. But there is something else here as well that we should look at very carefully. John said that all things were made by Him, and without Him nothing was made that has been made.
“Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.”(John 1:3).
So it belongs to Him already – creation is His. For He created it, we are told. So then, how can He be the heir of all things? He came down to this earth and He took upon Himself our humanity; and the first man in the human race was given dominion over this creation. In Genesis, tremendous statements are made in very few words. When God gave Adam dominion – He didn’t place him in Eden as a 1st class gardener to plant plum trees. Adam had dominion (that is rulership) over all creation. But Adam lost that. And when the Lord Jesus came to this earth, He became a man. Notice that Jesus performed miracles in every realm (natural and physical realms). He had control over the human body, control over nature, and over life and death. He could quiet a storm and feed 5,000 people with a couple fish and a few loaves of bread. He recovered what Adam had lost. And now, the Lord Jesus is going to be heir of all things because He did recover what Adam had lost, and even more. We are told in Scripture that we are heirs of God also, and we are co-heirs with Christ.
“The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.”(Romans 8:16-17).
That does not mean equal heirs. Christ has control of all of it, and He will allocate to each child of God their portion at the proper time. The Lord Jesus Christ is the heir, He controls it. But He may let me have a little patch somewhere. He may put me in charge of a little something, but that is the way that we are co-heirs with Christ. We have an inheritance that is incorruptible, undefiled, and unfading. And it’s reserved in Heaven for us. Why? Because of all the wonderful things that He did for us. He recovered what Adam lost and even more. We today are co-heirs with Christ. He is the one who is going to inherit everything and no prophet was ever promised that in the Old Testament.
The 2nd thing we are told “and through whom he made the universe.” See, as the heir, that shows us the program for the future (Christ will inherit all things), but now in the fact that the universe was made through Him – that shows us purpose in everything! He not only created everything, He did it for a purpose. The Bible makes sense then, when you realize this truth, my friend. God created man, put him in a garden, and He put down just 1 condition – he was not to eat of a certain tree. Well, there was nothing wrong with that tree, the fruit on it was good. But that was God’s test of that man. After all, it wasn’t the fruit on the tree, it was actually the pair on the ground – that’s where the problem was. So man absolutely and completely failed at that time. God has a program, see? And He has a purpose in everything. And there came another period where God tests man, and He gave the Law. And today, you and I are saved by grace – that’s the way we get in. We would never be able to get in by the Law. It wasn’t given to us to begin with, and secondly, no man can keep the Law. No man can live up to the righteous standard that God has set. God just can’t save us by our own works at all. I think that should be obvious to everyone who has thoroughly studied the New Testament. God can not save us by works, and the reason for that is because no man can offer perfect works. We can’t measure up to that. And He can’t save us by imperfect works, because His standard is higher than that. Therefore, God had to have another way. And today it is by grace that you are saved
“For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast.”(Ephesians 2:8-9).
The Lord Jesus Christ was the only one who could live a perfect life, and it’s through faith only in Christ that God extends grace to us today. Now, notice as we go along that we have more statements about Christ:
“The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.”(Hebrews 1:3)
“the radiance of God’s glory…” “radiance” here means the out-shining. The sun gives a good illustration of this. We could never know the glory of this material sun our planet revolves around. To begin with, you can’t look at it directly. It would blind you if you did. But from the rays of the sun, we get light and heat and even healing from it. That’s the way we know about the sun. Now, we would never know anything about God apart from the revelation that God has given in His Son. He is the brightness! He is the Light of the World! No one has ever seen God, but we know about Him through Jesus Christ. Just like the rays of the sun with their warmth and light tell me about the physical sun, the Lord Jesus revelas God to us today. Now, when He uses this other expression here “and the exact representation of his being,” – the word translated “exact representation” actually means steel engraving. (The Greek word is ‘charactare’). We get our word “character” from that.
So, we can see today that the Lord Jesus Christ is the revelation of God because He is God, and that is the important thing. He is not just printed material, He is the steel engraving of God.
Paul says “For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,”(Colossians 2:9). How wonderful He is!
Then we are told a 4th thing about Him – “sustaining all things by his powerful word. ” That little baby in the manger, lying helpless on the bosom of Mary out yonder in Bethlehem – He could have spoken the universe out of existence. He upholds All things by His powerful word. He not only created all things as the Word of God
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning.”(John 1:1-2), but He also holds everything together today.
Have you ever stopped to think about the power that’s required to hold it all together? Man has learned little about it, but we have learned a little. For instance, when they split the atom – they released a whole lot of power from that tiny little atom. Well, who put that power there? Who holds the atom together? Well the Lord Jesus Christ does, of course. He furnishes the program and the purpose, He is the Person of God and He is the preserver of All things. He not only created the universe, but He holds everything together. If He let go today, like say if He didn’t hold us here by the elmer’s glue that is gravity, we would go floating off into space. He holds everything together and this universe would come unglued without His constant supervision and power. He is not just an atlas holding up the earth passively, He is actively engaged in maintaining all of creation today. He’s holding it together – keeping the darn thing functioning and running. And that is one of the tremendous things that He is doing today.
Notice, there is a 5th wonderful thing now – “he had provided purification for sins” He Himself provided pardon for our sins. And He purged our sins. He went through it for you and me, and that’s the reason we need to only trust Christ. He has paid the penalty. How wonderful it is!
Up to this point in Hebrews, we had only gotten to Bethlehem, now we’ve come to Calvary. And He today offers pardon for our sins. The purification was accomplished by what He did on Calvary for you and me. And today we are accepted in the beloved and you can’t add to anything He’s done for us.
The 6th tremendouos statement is after what He did down here – “he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.” Now, this is actually the main message of Hebrews.
Christ received a glory and a Majesty when He went back to the Father’s throne that He never had before. In other words, there is something in heaven today that was not there 2500 years ago or in eternity past, that is the Man and the Glory with nail pierced hands, and the prints on His feet, and the spear wound in His side. And in a glorified body He is there, and we shall know Him by the print of the nails in His hands. We’re going to see Him some day, but at this very moment He is there. He was not there like that 2500 years ago, He was God 2500 years ago, but today He is the God Man. And when it says “He sat down”, it doesn’t mean He’s tired or He’s resting or that He’s doing nothing. He’s not twiddling His thumbs. It means that when He finished our redemption that He sat down because it was complete. That’s exactly what the 7th Day meant in creation. God rested on the 7th Day. Why, was He tired? No, He created the universe by speaking it into existence, He wasn’t tired. But it was complete, there was nothing more that He needed to do. Christ sat down because our redemption was complete, and my friend you can not even lift your little finger to add to what He already wrought for you on the cross. He has already completed your redemption, and we are complete in Christ.
As Paul said “and you have been given fullness in Christ, who is the head over every power and authority.”(Colossians 2:10). You are made full in Him and we are accepted in the beloved. That is the meaning of that “He sat down.”
But there is another aspect in that there is a Man in the Glory, but the church has lost sight of Him. Christ today has a ministry and it can be expressed like this – He died down here to save us, He lives up there to keep us saved. A ministry of intercession and of shepherding. A ministry of disciplining His own. He is still our only mediator. He is still interested in His church, He never took it out of the earth. He is still there to provide for you and me today. What do you need my friend? Do you need mercy? Do you need help? Comfort? Do you need wisdom? What do you need? Well, why don’t you go to Him? Tell Him what your problem is, have you done that? Have you laid out your problem before Him and asked Him to intervene on your behalf, and work it oout according to His will? (and BTW, He will work it out according to His will, not yours.). Prayer is not to persuade God to do something that He didn’t already intend to do. Prayer is for you and me to get in line with the program of God. And therefore, He is there today. He ever lives to make intercession for us. We can obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need. That’s what the book of Hebrews is all about – the present ministry of Christ, and that makes this pretty real. Samuel Joaquin can not help you today. Aaron Joaquin can not help you today. Nor can Buddha or Mohammad or Ghandi or Pope Benedict or any of these modern religious founders today. They can not help you today. Can Aaron help you today? Of course not, he’s dead.
But Jesus is alive forever! The Lord Jesus – Our Great High Priest is alive today. And that’s quite wonderful. That is the true message of Hebrews – Aaron is dead, Jesus is alive. He’s the one today that can help us and that is the message of this book. He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high and He took back there a glory which Heaven did not have before that. That was the body in which He wrought out your redemption and mine upon this earth. He gave Himself. He shed His blood for you and for me.
Now we come to the 7th remarkable statement that is made concerning Him here:
“So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.”(Hebrews 1:4)
We are told here that He is superior to the angels. And this is a section that proceeds on into chapter 2 – that Christ is superior to the angels. Angels figured in the ministry of the nation Israel. In fact we are told that the law was given by the ministry and agency of angels, and they figured in prominently in the Old Testament. There were 2 cherubim over the mercy seat. And we find that Isaiah had a vision of the Seraphim. And in the last days, in the book of Revelation, after the church is removed from the earth, there will be an angel ministry of judgement that is going to take place. But now, we can see in this epistle that angel ministry is not connected with the church at all.
If you are a child of God, then you are indwelt by the Spirit of God, the 3rd Person of the Trinity. What is it that He, the Holy Spirit can’t do that an angel could do for you? You wanna think that over for a while? Instead of talking about angels today, we need to recognize that angel ministry is not connected with the church at all.
And now, this becomes exceedingly difficult and dangerous. Because there is today a manifestation of demonism. Many people (LLDM “Samuelitas” for example) are unaware that demons are directing them. But the only thing is they call them angels.
http://www.luz-delmundo.com/principal/samuel-angel-apocalipsis.php
this link contains a YouTube video produced by Casa Cultural Berea (owned by Samuel Joaquin) which declares that Samuel Joaquin is an angel.
Angel ministry is not for today. All of this got into the church because some of the early church members had a talent as painters, and they liked to draw angels. I doubt any of them ever saw an angel, but many of them painted angels. If you’ve ever been inside the Sisteen Chapel in Rome and looked up at that ceiling, you would feel like angels were hovering over you. They’re thick as pigeons up there, everywhere, connected with everybody and everything. Michaelangelo for 1 certainly liked to paint angels. Now, it may be nice art, but it does not ring true for the church because there are no angels connected with our ministry today. It has to do with a Living Savior today. Let’s just push aside the angels because we don’t have to go through angels, or anyone else for that matter. We go through the Living Christ alone. We don’t need angels, we have the Holy Spirit. And we have up in heaven a great intercessor for us. Let’s get our minds off of angels and human authors of the Bible, and get our minds and hearts centered on the Person of Christ.
He is superior to angels. This is written to Hebrew Christians who were saturated with the Old Testament. And they were saturated with the angel ministry. But we now have here praise for the future – Christ is so much better than the angels. You see here, we’ve had pardon for our sins – the past. Provision for the present – for right now. And then there is praise for the future – He’s better than the angels! As we know, angels were very prominent in the ministry of the Old Testament. Again: “So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.”(Hebrews 1:4). Now the word ‘angel’ simply means ‘messenger,’ and that’s all it means, nothing more. Angels worship the Lord Jesus. They are preachers. Christ is better than the angels (messengers) and that statement is made for us very definitely and dogmatically right here.
Now the Lord Jesus, back in the Old Testament, actually appears on occasion as the angel of the Lord. But now He’s become a man, (as we see in Hebrews chapter 2). Now having assumed human form, He does not appear as the angel of the Lord, He’s the Man Christ Jesus today. He is the Only Son of Man and Son of God.
Now, we come to something here that is very important to see. We have about 273 references to angels in the whole Bible. They were messengers identified with the very throne of God. And now the writer puts forth a series of quotations from the Old Testament (many from the Psalms), with 2 references to Psalm 110, which is the most quoted Psalm in the New Testament. The Psalms have more about Christ than they have about any other thing. It was the hymn book of the temple back then, but it’s all about the Christ – Jesus! It’s praise to Him, and there is a more complete picture of Christ in the Psalms than we have in the 4 Gospels. These quotations here are very important. The writer here is quoting from the Old Testament to enforce his point, so let’s look at this now.
As you see, there is much that you miss if you read just verse 5 (that’s only a portion of what I could say about the first 4 verses, BTW). Now, let’s continue:
“For to which of the angels did God ever say,
“You are my Son;
today I have become your Father”? Or again,
“I will be his Father,
and he will be my Son”?”(Hebrews 1:5)
Now, we have come here to this tremendous quotation “”You are my Son;
today I have become your Father”?”. The writer quotes here from Psalm 2:7. And Paul quoted that too in Acts 13 in his great sermon in Antioch. It’s one of the greatest sermons Paul ever gave, and he quoted Psalm 2:7, but Paul makes it clear there that this is not a reference to Jesus’ birth in Bethlehem. It is a reference to the Resurrection of Christ when God the Father brought Him back from the dead. Therefore, He is the Only One that could die for the sins of the world. No angel could save us, my friend. Only Christ could become a man and pay the penalty. That penalty is death, the wages of sin is death. And He had to shed His blood for without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sin. Therefore, He made that redemption for you and for me and He was brought back from the dead and is alive today. He’s the Son, and He’s begotten from the dead.
Now again, he quotes from the Old Testament: “Or again,
“I will be his Father,
and he will be my Son”?”". That’s a quote from 2 Samuel 7:14. That is God’s promise to David. When He made His covenant with David, He told Him at that time that He would bring One in David’s line. There are those who think that was a reference just to Solomon. But this passage makes it very clear that when God gave that to David, it was reference to the Lord Jesus Christ. This is Biblical confirmation of that. This makes it clear that it was reference to the Lord Jesus Christ and He alone fulfilled it.
Now, notice it says:
“And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says,
“Let all God’s angels worship him.” (Hebrews 1:6)
This is another Old Testament quotation, from Deuteronomy 32:43. This is something quite remarkable – the angels of God are wonderful, but they are inferior to the Son. For they are His angels, His ministers, and His worshipers. They worship Him, He doesn’t worship them.
Now notice:
“In speaking of the angels he says,
“He makes his angels winds,
his servants flames of fire.”"(Hebrews 1:7)
This is a quotation from Psalm 104:4. Again we see that they are His angels, His ministers, His worshipers. That is very important to see. The writer here is now showing forth very clearly this fact that Christ is superior to angels; and he’s using the Old Testament Scriptures in order to prove that.
These first 2 chapters of Hebrews are so absolutely important and integral. They put down a foundation for what we find throughout the rest of the letter which is the present ministry of Christ for you and me today. Oh that you and I might be conscious of this fact – There is a Living Christ at God’s right hand right now. And He is more real than I am, more real than you are, more real than Samuel Joaquin. No one knows where I, you, or Samuel are going to be when you read this – we just don’t know what tomorrow will bring. But if you’re reading this – right now Christ is Living at God’s right hand, and that is so real it is reality itself.
“But about the Son he says,
“Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever,
and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.”(Hebrews 1:8)
Now this is a quotation from Psalm 45, and it reveals that that is one of the great Messianic Psalms. There was coming One in the line of David, and now the writer to the Hebrews says that that One is the Lord Jesus Christ. And He is the One who will rule in righteousness. God has not given that to any angel at all to do.
“You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
by anointing you with the oil of joy.”(Hebrews 1:9)
This is a tremendous statement here, but let’s back up for just a second and look at all of what God the Father says to the Son.
“But about the Son he says,
“Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever,
and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.
You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
by anointing you with the oil of joy.”(Hebrews 1:8-9)
“Your throne, O God,”. This is God the Father calling the Son (Jesus) ‘God’! You wanna deny that He is God manifest in the flesh? Then may I tell you this – you are contradicting God Himself. God called Him God! What are you going to call Him? Well, I don’t know about you, but I’m gonna call Him God. He’s God manifest in the flesh. This is a tremendous statement – He is superior to the angels because He is going to rule. He is the Messiah, the King of kings and Lord of lords who will rule over this earth some day.
And the writer is not through, he goes on:
“He also says,
“In the beginning, O Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth,
and the heavens are the work of your hands.
They will perish, but you remain;
they will all wear out like a garment.
You will roll them up like a robe;
like a garment they will be changed.
But you remain the same,
and your years will never end.”"(Hebrews 1:10-12)
We have here this tremendous statement about Jesus – That He is the Creator. And since He is the Creator, angels are Creatures. There is a tremendous contrast given to us here in this particular section. Angels are creatures, He is the Creator. And this BTW, is a quotation from Psalm 102:25-27. Tremendous statement!
Now:
“To which of the angels did God ever say,
“Sit at my right hand
until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet”? 14 Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?”(Hebrews 1:13-14)
Now, does verse 14 refer to the church? It says angels minister here, but who do they serve? “Those who will (WILL) inherit Salvation.” That’s not the church, the church has already inherited Salvation through the ministry of Christ Jesus. This is looking forward to after the rapture of the church, when God again turns to the Nation Israel and to the Gentile world after the church is removed. You see, God is moving on a program and a purpose. And when He does, then again the angels will minister. But the interesting thing is it does not say those who are right now the heirs of Salvation, we should notice that.
Now, Christ is a Son, angels are servants. Christ is King, angels are subjects. Christ is the Creator, angels are creatures. And Christ today is waiting until all His enemies are made His footstool. God never said that to any angel. He did say that to His Son, and His Son some day shall rule. This is a wonderful epistle in the Word of God, and here in chapter 1 the Deity of Christ is set before us, and He is exalted.
David, as you can infer from my comments, I do believe in God as a Trinity – that means 1 God, 3 Persons. Father, Son (Jesus Christ), and Holy Spirit. It is a very difficult concept to understand and I will admit that I do not fully comprehend it myself. Many people though, choose to not believe in it for the fact that it is difficult to understand, but God is mysterious so that does not dismiss the concept at all just because we mere humans can’t understand it. I assure you, it is Biblical. The Father is not the Son, nor is the Son the Father, and neither the Father or the Son is the Holy Spirit. All 3 are really 1, co-equal, co-eternal, co-existant, Triune. The Father devised the plan, the Son executed the plan, and the Spirit empowers the plan.
Now, David I want to thank you sincerely for opening the door for us to reason from the Scriptures and examine “is Jesus God?” from the perspective of the attributes of God and Jesus.
Is Jesus Omnipotent? Is Jesus Omniscient? Is Jesus Omnipresent? I tell you – yes, yes, yes and so much more! Wait wait, don’t believe me.
Believe what the Bible says:
OMNIPRESENT:
God the Father – “Can anyone hide in secret places
so that I cannot see him?”
declares the LORD.
“Do not I fill heaven and earth?”
declares the LORD.”(Jeremiah 23:24)
The Son, Jesus Christ – “and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”"(Matthew 28:20)
OMNISCIENT:
God the Father – “Great is our Lord and mighty in power;
his understanding has no limit.”(Psalm 147:5)
The Son, Jesus Christ – “Now we can see that you know all things and that you do not even need to have anyone ask you questions. This makes us believe that you came from God.”"(John 16:30)
OMNIPOTENT:
God the Father – “”Ah, Sovereign LORD, you have made the heavens and the earth by your great power and outstretched arm. Nothing is too hard for you.”(Jeremiah 32:17)
The Son, Jesus Christ – “Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”(Matthew 19:26).
If we could ask Jesus Himself to answer this question today, I wonder what He would say. Hmm, perhaps something like…..
“”I tell you the truth,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”"(John 8:58)
This is a tremendous statement Jesus made about Himself. First of all, notice He doesn’t say “before Abraham was born I was”. What He says is “before Abraham was born I am!” Meaning that He existed before Abraham was born. He wasn’t born before Abraham, but He existed before that. Now someone might say “yes, He existed in the mind of God”. no my friend He existed AS God. He says “I AM” referring to Himself. The Jews knew exactly what Jesus was saying to them when He said this, because they had all read:
“God said to Moses, “I am who I am. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I AM has sent me to you.’ “”(Exodus 3:14).
Jesus was identifying Himself as the very same “I AM” who spoke to Moses.
All beloved members of LLDM: Samuel Joaquin Flores cannot save anyone. Only Jesus Christ can save you, because Jesus is God. Which leads me to my final attribute of God which I will show to you, David:
SAVIOR:
God the Father – “I, even I, am the LORD,
and apart from me there is no savior.”(Isaiah 43:11)
The Son, Jesus Christ – “while we wait for the blessed hope—the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good.”(Titus 2:13-14).
Gracious and loving Father in Heaven, I pray that all those who completely read this comment will be blessed by the wisdom of the Holy Spirit, as He opens their eyes to take the things of Christ and make them real in their hearts. In Jesus’ name I pray, Amen.
May 9th, 2010 at 3:53 pm
To all members of LLDM that used to visit this blog and those that even tough they say they will not come back, I’m pretty sure they will give a glimpse once in a while again:
I am not an enemy of Samuel Joaquin Flores or his family or at least a significant one. Their worst enemies are themselves.
Their greed for power and money, their lust after young flesh, their ignorance and lack of education thinking that their “little gold mine” will last forever. But their main enemy is God himself, since they are skimming the people in his name’s sake. Their place in hell is the same as the Anti Christ and the Beast along with all the “popes” and false prophets of all times.
But the saddest part of all is all the people that will reach the presence of God with a false passport to eternity issued by a false apostle. This is sad, sad, sad.
Truth is painful always, but is the truth.
May 9th, 2010 at 9:59 am
Colin:
In response to your question if I used to be as fanatical as Jeziel when I was in LLDM, I can tell you that Jeziel does not measures up to my level of fanaticism and real dedication to the defense of the “apostle” I had while I believed he was a real servant of God.
Jeziel is no more than a young lad full of naiveness and desire to show up his commitment to maintain his “faith” in the “apostle” but just with words.
I dedicated more than 20 years to the direct service of Samuel Joaquin abandoning my family to commit to his entire will. Until I saw the real evil man behind the mask of “divine election”. That is something all the “Jeziels” in LLDM will never have the opportunity to experiment.
I understand Jeziel’s commitment to maintain his beliefs and he is right in telling us that he has never seen any wrongdoing in the “apostle” but good work.
From his position and place in the hierarchical ladder of LLDM he will never be able to see anything as the majority of LLDM members. He even gives us a glimpse to his inner thoughts full of bigotry when he calls me “homosexual” without knowing me or others in this blog.
That’s why my information has been always directed not to the people already trapped in the web of Samuel Joaquin and family but to the people that is still in a position to choose a good Christian biblically based church for their spiritual development.
Colin, you has been perhaps questioning what failed in your strategy of exposing Jeziel to the basic truth in the Bible. You’re lacking anything. Is Jeziel who has chosen not to see them. I bet he does not even thoroughly read your arguments and Bible verses that backed your words. He is not interested in to understand you, but how to make his “truth” to thrive.
That what I was used to do, write-off from the beginning any word or reasoning that would put in danger the “soundness” of my “faith”.
May 9th, 2010 at 5:45 am
AUTHOR: Micael Cano- Real Name
This blog, produced by Oscar Nuno, is nothing but a meaningless contemptuous effort to ruin someone’s reputation. In fact, his disdain attempt can compare to the immaturity of a cyber bully. Yet, no one has been harmed, thank the living God. His haughty behavior in expressing his thoughts has been mere slander. In this blog, he and his comrades have been interrogating us in patronizing manners, degrading us for being teenagers. However, in attempt to follow up to their questions, we have ridden the Ferris wheel, going in circles on the same subject. The fact is that we can’t agree with each other. As Christians, it is not our job to argue with what other’s believe is right; sometimes that can lead to more harm than good. In this site, I have heard some of the most “bogus” ideas yet placed on God’s Church, the Light of the World. Nuno’s comments, statements, opinions, expression or whatever you would like to refer to it as has been MERE slander. If I was Oscar, I’d be collecting data now trying to prove all the claims that I have made. I was accused of being related to several people I don’t even know of. I was accused of being a part of groups that don’t even exist. Most of all, I was put to shame for being just another “Samuelita”. If I knew what that was, I’m sure I would have admitted it. When I first ate out of this tree, I was interrogated for personal information. Therefore, I gave in a sarcastic manner, just for the fact that they demanded it, true personal information about myself such as: favorite color, DOB, where I live, etc. And in return, all I wanted to know was what Church THEY were from, which by the way I never received info of. And because they immediately responded to me with attitudes, I became defensive in my writing. Then, Oscar started to give these long expressive ornate speeches about his truth about our Church. To me, they were ostentatious. However, I’m glad I read them. They themselves refuted his egregious claims. His claim on us paying homage to Apostle Aaron on August 14 is completely despicable. I replied expressing how big of a liar he was. Personally, I have been a part of the Church for 2 years. I gave my testimony on that reasoning. I had no clue his birthday was on August 14. I have never heard anyone even mention his name during this time. Therefore, I couldn’t believe anything else that he has said, especially when he accused me of being related to someone else. His comrades have played a great part in his coup to ruin Apostle Samuel’s reputation. When LLDM replied to their comments, they quickly were ready to refute anything we had to say. Their object was not to help but to make contest between us. Why so? Of course, they want to portray our tenuous insides, which I give credit to them for doing so. They portrayed our weakness in being Christians and have made us stronger in what we believe. Perhaps, we could have responded in a better mood. It was in our evil nature not to do so. In this statement, it would make sense to say we our imperfect, for the fact that we came here in the first place. Replying to their comments was futile. You could not stay on one subject for long. As soon as we replied, their response was I AM RIGHT YOU ARE WRONG. These people are not trying to help. They are evil people who love to quarrel and live doing so. It is by that these people feel good about themselves. They compared us to the Pharisees, and I did as well. We felt we had to be on the blog responding because if we didn’t, we were wrong in doing so. They would be ALL LLDM MEMBERS JUST LEAVE. Therefore, with their fabricated comments, we were led back, writing, as I wrote this. They embellished their comments and claimed the “Holy Spirited” guided them. Only thing is, they lack the Holy Spirit and the understanding of how to obtain it. To most people, their sermons, as I will call them, were cryptic and superfluous. Most of the things they said were unnecessary hatred toward Apostle Samuel, which their hard hearts will never allow them to believe. And because they’re so hard to comprehend, people will never understand them. They will live with their “own” control to salvation. As they find those itchy ears that want to hear what they have to say, they too will live with their own control to salvation. My brother in Christ Jeziel (also charged with being related to me), whom I don’t know personally, responded with an intrepid attitude. As soon as I saw his comments, I told him not to waste his time. Courageous or not, Satan doesn’t care. He will grasp you with whatever lie or slander in which he can put into your mind.
Genesis Chapter 2
8 Now the LORD God had planted a garden in the east, in Eden; and there he put the man he had formed. 9 And the LORD God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground—trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
15 The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it. 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die.”
Genesis Chapter 3
1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?”
2 The woman said to the serpent “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’ ”
4 “You will not surely die,” the serpent said to the woman. 5 “For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”
6 When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it. 7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.
8 Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the LORD God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the LORD God among the trees of the garden. 9 But the LORD God called to the man, “Where are you?”
10 He answered, “I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid.”
11 And he said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?”
12 The man said, “The woman you put here with me—she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it.”
13 Then the LORD God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?”
The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.”
I’m beseeching whoever comes to this site to not be misled of who we are. The people who created this site don’t care about you. They are the serpents trying to deceive you. And as soon as they do, everything will go bad. Let me give you a short testimony. My cousin left the Church for a man out of Church. She was baptized and received the Holy Spirit. This man didn’t believe in the Church. He is an infamous Catholic. He found it wrong that man and women were divided. My cousin was madly “in love” with him. This man beats her, mistreats her daughter, and even is a drug addict. And this same very man, claims to be close to the God. Well, when my cousin left the Church, nothing turned out good for him. She has three kids with him now. He has no job or education. He recently told my brother that he is trying to knock my cousin up as many times as he can till he gets a “boy”. This same “Catholic”, I mean Christian, has dragged my cousin out of a life that was pleasing to God. What was it that beat her? Her evil nature, or sex, beat her. Now, she lives a horrible life. I look at her and hope that God never permits me to leave the Church. If believing means believing in arguments, believe whatever Oscar or his comrades have to say. You can’t ever know the truth till you experience it yourself. And my experiences through a Baptist, catholic, Methodist, Pentecostal, Immanuel and even Lutheran Church have brought me to believe even stronger in that truth. Living out of the Church, was a life that I never want to experience again. When I was baptized March 22, 2009, I thanked God for allowing me to believe. It was something that not everyone is permitted by God to do. It was not so, I would not be praising God today. Just as God hardened Pharaoh’s heart, he hardens many hearts today. Why? God sees a heart. Ultimately, a heart will tell a lot. A bit over a year now, I am blessed with such knowledge of Christ through the bible because of the understanding of Apostle’s Samuel’s interpretation. If life is all about rescuing it yourself, don’t let any of us stop you from being a maverick. My apologies are to everyone for rudeness and any feeling that I gave you that was “unchristian”. However, AGE shouldn’t give anyone reason to ignore someone. Here is the entire scripture of David being Anointed:
Samuel Anoints David as King
1 Now the Lord said to Samuel, “You have mourned long enough for Saul. I have rejected him as king of Israel, so fill your flask with olive oil and go to Bethlehem. Find a man named Jesse who lives there, for I have selected one of his sons to be my king.”
2 But Samuel asked, “How can I do that? If Saul hears about it, he will kill me.”
“Take a heifer with you,” the Lord replied, “and say that you have come to make a sacrifice to the Lord. 3 Invite Jesse to the sacrifice, and I will show you which of his sons to anoint for me.”
4 So Samuel did as the Lord instructed. When he arrived at Bethlehem, the elders of the town came trembling to meet him. “What’s wrong?” they asked. “Do you come in peace?”
5 “Yes,” Samuel replied. “I have come to sacrifice to the Lord. Purify yourselves and come with me to the sacrifice.” Then Samuel performed the purification rite for Jesse and his sons and invited them to the sacrifice, too.
6 When they arrived, Samuel took one look at Eliab and thought, “Surely this is the Lord’s anointed!”
7 But the Lord said to Samuel, “Don’t judge by his appearance or height, for I have rejected him. The Lord doesn’t see things the way you see them. People judge by outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart.”
8 Then Jesse told his son Abinadab to step forward and walk in front of Samuel. But Samuel said, “This is not the one the Lord has chosen.” 9 Next Jesse summoned Shimea,[a] but Samuel said, “Neither is this the one the Lord has chosen.” 10 In the same way all seven of Jesse’s sons were presented to Samuel. But Samuel said to Jesse, “The Lord has not chosen any of these.” 11 Then Samuel asked, “Are these all the sons you have?”
“There is still the youngest,” Jesse replied. “But he’s out in the fields watching the sheep and goats.”
“Send for him at once,” Samuel said. “We will not sit down to eat until he arrives.”
12 So Jesse sent for him. He was dark and handsome, with beautiful eyes.
And the Lord said, “This is the one; anoint him.”
13 So as David stood there among his brothers, Samuel took the flask of olive oil he had brought and anointed David with the oil. And the Spirit of the Lord came powerfully upon David from that day on. Then Samuel returned to Ramah
Therefore, you can understand, it is not age that matters, but what’s in the heart of a person. Most of our comments are invalid to Oscar because of our age. It’s okay because when it seems like teenagers should be arguing with each other; it’s the other way around. It’s the adults who are acting like children. Especially, when Colin laughed when I added a‘s’ to Revelation. What kind of attitude is that for an ADULT? If we have acted the way we have, at least our age can mollify anyone who is upset about it. After all, we are 16 and 17 year olds to Oscar and his comrades. And to Frank Media, if you are really a “Frank Medina”, you really have some issues. It’s crazy when someone can read your effusive attitude with such ebullience in slandering. You write with such frenetic emotion, which to be honest creeps me out.
2 Timothy 2
14Keep reminding them of these things. Warn them before God against quarreling about words; it is of no value, and only ruins those who listen. 15Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth. 16Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly. 17Their teaching will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus,18who have wandered away from the truth. They say that the resurrection has already taken place, and they destroy the faith of some. 19Nevertheless, God’s solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness.”
22Flee the evil desires of youth, and pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, along with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart. 23Don’t have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels. 24And the Lord’s servant must not quarrel; instead, he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. 25Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth, 26and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will.
And forgive me, I first attempted with that love and peace, but I ended up falling for your wily methods to get me angry. And don’t you see, we all shouldn’t be arguing. This is exactly what I wanted to avoid in the beginning. You didn’t give me a chance to avoid it. It was all of the sudden a force to make me believe in dubious things. And as long as you all argue, you will be exactly who you are. I don’t want this to be an argument. Through this, I want to explain what exactly went on here through my experience. And most of it was accusations and assertions which all fall under one category SLANDER. I apologize for anything that has offended you, but the truth is the truth, and it shall one day set you free from an earthly view of such world at ruins. We’re in a world where everyone can’t agree on one thing. I can tell you this, in Florida the word of God for me is the same as here in San Antonio. The Word for you is not the same for Frank Medina or Colin and Chris. I read through your blog of homosexuals. I found the crack between you all’s relationships with Christ. This is where everything that you have said falls down to nothing. You all can’t even agree that homosexuality is wrong. I can see future disparity already. What a sad world… Even when one claims to be agnostic on one site and Christian on the other… When quarreling is expresses oneself…When the drunk grasps his Budlight as he bows his head to pray believing doing so will save him… Whatever fault and lie you find in us, it can’t compare to our attempt to worship God and honor him 7 days a week. Yes, over all your complaints about Apostle Samuel and the reasons he isn’t an Apostle, he has taught us to worship God 7 days. We try our best to reach a perfection we know we can’t ever reach. Yet, we try because we believe God wants us that way. If seeing means being deceived, then yes I would rather be blind all my life. “There is no worst blind man, than one who does not want to see.”-Oscar Nuno Sometimes being blind keeps you safe from seeing things we shouldn’t see. If Adam and Eve hadn’t eaten that fruit, we would all be blind to sin. Would that not have been a good thing? Let this be MY LAST REPONSE… GOD BLESS EVERYONE & Much love and sincere apologies to everybody…
BTW: Forgive me for my poor writing skills. Forgive me if I didn’t use proper grammar or if I didn’t spell or say something right. Forgive me for any other fault you find in me. GOD BLESS
May 9th, 2010 at 5:44 am
Author: Jeziel Granados – real name
To everyone reading this:
I am rejoiced by the fact that Micael has pretty much laid out and summarized what this blog is all about; HATRED, HATRED, HATRED, and as my brother in faith or as Oscar theorized close relative has pointed out, like the serpent, they and I mean people like Oscar, Colin, the supposed Frank Medina, Alberto (who sincerely never answered my question of how he knows me), Sum, and many more poisonous people like them (no offense) are trying the destroy God’s plan, salvation of humanity. Now, I am not going to repeat the same thing Micael said so people still keep on reading.
Colin asked me a very important question that I have answered and he kept on denying it, so as God as my witness I will answer. My personal notes are in (parenthesis).
The Word Became Flesh
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning.
3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood[a] it.
6There came a man who was sent from God; his name was John. 7He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all men might believe. 8He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light. 9The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world.[b]
10He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13children born not of natural descent,[c] nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.
14The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only,[d] who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
15John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’ ” 16From the fullness of his grace we have all received one blessing after another. 17For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only,[e][f]who is at the Father’s side, has made him known.
John the Baptist Denies Being the Christ
19Now this was John’s testimony when the Jews of Jerusalem sent priests and Levites to ask him who he was. 20He did not fail to confess, but confessed freely, “I am not the Christ.[g]”
21They asked him, “Then who are you? Are you Elijah?”
He said, “I am not.”
“Are you the Prophet?”
He answered, “No.”
22Finally they said, “Who are you? Give us an answer to take back to those who sent us. What do you say about yourself?”
23John replied in the words of Isaiah the prophet, “I am the voice of one calling in the desert, ‘Make straight the way for the Lord.’ “[h]
24Now some Pharisees who had been sent 25questioned him, “Why then do you baptize if you are not the Christ, nor Elijah, nor the Prophet?”
26″I baptize with[i] water,” John replied, “but among you stands one you do not know. 27He is the one who comes after me, the thongs of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie.”
28This all happened at Bethany on the other side of the Jordan, where John was baptizing.
Jesus the Lamb of God
29The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! 30This is the one I meant when I said, ‘A man who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’ 31I myself did not know him, but the reason I came baptizing with water was that he might be revealed to Israel.” (Hint: A MAN)
32Then John gave this testimony: “I saw the Spirit come down from heaven as a dove and remain on him. 33I would not have known him, except that the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, ‘The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is he who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’ 34I have seen and I testify that this is the Son of God.”
Jesus is the son of God created by God and the perfect image of God but not God himself. Another verse to support that…
Jesus Teaches Nicodemus
1Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a member of the Jewish ruling council. 2He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the miraculous signs you are doing if God were not with him.”
3In reply Jesus declared, “I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.[a]” (For all those of you, not baptized in the name of Jesus Christ… You should think again whether you even get to see the Kingdom of God.)
4″How can a man be born when he is old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb to be born!”
5Jesus answered, “I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit[b] gives birth to spirit. 7You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You[c] must be born again.’ 8The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”
9″How can this be?” Nicodemus asked.
10″You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things? 11I tell you the truth, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. 12I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? 13No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.[d] 14Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.[e]
16″For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[f] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. 19This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God.” (We believe in Jesus Christ. Most of all, we believe in Samuel Joaquin leading us to that salvation through Christ. No take that back, MOST OF ALL, we believe in the NAME OF Jesus CHRIST. We don’t believe in any pagan Name of any Father, and Son, and any Spirit. We believe in the name of Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit, that being Jesus CHRIST. Whoever can’t believe this stands condemned. And the verdict is done said, Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth come into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God. That is why we are the light of the world. Yes, we are the light of the world. How?
Matthew 5
13″You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled by men.
14″You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden. 15Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven. (No, we are not all Jesus Christ. Yes, Jesus Christ also claimed to be the light of the world. However, Christ referred to his people as the light of the world. As long as Christ was in this world, he was the light of the world. John 9)
3″Neither this man nor his parents sinned,” said Jesus, “but this happened so that the work of God might be displayed in his life. 4As long as it is day, we must do the work of him who sent me. Night is coming, when no one can work. 5While I am in the world, I am the light of the world.” However, through his teaching, we are given an instruction to becoming as that light. I know I digressed, but I thought I should having these scriptures out already. Through those scriptures, I hope you can understand that you and your dad perhaps are not one person. If you can’t understand God and Christ are not like that, than understand that you and your own dad are two individuals. With that being said, God bless you’ll understand.)
John the Baptist’s Testimony About Jesus
22After this, Jesus and his disciples went out into the Judean countryside, where he spent some time with them, and baptized. 23Now John also was baptizing at Aenon near Salim, because there was plenty of water, and people were constantly coming to be baptized. 24(This was before John was put in prison.) 25An argument developed between some of John’s disciples and a certain Jew[i] over the matter of ceremonial washing. 26They came to John and said to him, “Rabbi, that man who was with you on the other side of the Jordan—the one you testified about—well, he is baptizing, and everyone is going to him.”
27To this John replied, “A man can receive only what is given him from heaven. 28You yourselves can testify that I said, ‘I am not the Christ[j] but am sent ahead of him.’ 29The bride belongs to the bridegroom. The friend who attends the bridegroom waits and listens for him, and is full of joy when he hears the bridegroom’s voice. That joy is mine, and it is now complete. 30He must become greater; I must become less.
31″The one who comes from above is above all; the one who is from the earth belongs to the earth, and speaks as one from the earth. The one who comes from heaven is above all. 32He testifies to what he has seen and heard, but no one accepts his testimony. 33The man who has accepted it has certified that God is truthful. 34For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God[k] gives the Spirit without limit. 35The Father loves the Son and has placed everything in his hands. 36Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on him.”[l]
Jesus the son of God. Sent to save each and every one of us. Now Jesus left a path for us to obey.
Now hopefully Colin won’t say that I have not answered his question. I want everyone to read Romans 1:18- onward
God’s Wrath Against Mankind
18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
21For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.
24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.
Now this beautiful scripture explains pretty much what these people in this horrendous website are. They try to change something left established: APOSTLES!!!
Unity in the Body of Christ
1As a prisoner for the Lord, then, I urge you to live a life worthy of the calling you have received. 2Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love. 3Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace. 4There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to one hope when you were called— 5one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
7But to each one of us grace has been given as Christ apportioned it. 8This is why it[a] says:
“When he ascended on high,
he led captives in his train
and gave gifts to men.”[b] 9(What does “he ascended” mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions[c]? 10He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.) 11It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, 12to prepare God’s people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up 13until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.
14Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming. 15Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ. 16From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work.
Now I would be using specific scriptures but like infants people whine about my suppose Swiss cheese technique I give you the whole scripture. Now let’s focus our attention our attention to verse 11-14. People who give their venom as explained by Micael, you are trying break up the Body of Christ. How would this body reach to its perfection? The teachings of a great Apostles but wait as said by many in this website “we don’t need an Apostle isn’t necessary, we can alone with the Holy Ghost”, which I’m assuming you haven’t attempted to ask for and receive.”
Matthew 26”41
41″Watch and pray so that you will not fall into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the body is weak.”
Pray people, those non believers who destroy the body of Christ. Now I want to address the suppose Frank Medina. Now I want everyone to make an observation to all of the messages sent by Frank Medina. Look at the words, the way he expresses himself, the poison that oozes from his venomous lies. Now there is a saying “a liar is always a liar”. Can we trust this man to tell the truth of the Apostle of Jesuschrist? He seems to lie about his name and there must be a particular reason why he hides his name or even fakes his whole name. Now he might say “afraid that people will come after me”. That’s just plain stupidity (pardon the word). No one will waste their time trying to look for this person. There are many reason why he hates the church and there is an obvious one used by Martin that I will not repeat but Martin and “Frank Medina”.
Romans 1:27-32:
27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.
Reason as I said that he hates the church. We need to stop this hatred, we need to stop these people, not by hurting them, not by suing them but by stop entering this blog. Colin, I have grown fond of our friendship and do pray you leave this website and pray to God for guidance. Don’t go to our church, fine with me; just don’t say things that aren’t true and I would highly appreciate it. What do I mean by things that are not true? Your accusations aren’t valid about Apostle Samuel. Being so, you should be considered for slandering as well.
GOD BLESS YOU ALL
AUTHOR: Micael Cano- Real Name
This blog, produced by Oscar Nuno, is nothing but a meaningless contemptuous effort to ruin someone’s reputation. In fact, his disdain attempt can compare to the immaturity of a cyber bully. Yet, no one has been harmed, thank the living God. His haughty behavior in expressing his thoughts has been mere slander. In this blog, he and his comrades have been interrogating us in patronizing manners, degrading us for being teenagers. However, in attempt to follow up to their questions, we have ridden the Ferris wheel, going in circles on the same subject. The fact is that we can’t agree with each other. As Christians, it is not our job to argue with what other’s believe is right; sometimes that can lead to more harm than good. In this site, I have heard some of the most “bogus” ideas yet placed on God’s Church, the Light of the World. Nuno’s comments, statements, opinions, expression or whatever you would like to refer to it as has been MERE slander. If I was Oscar, I’d be collecting data now trying to prove all the claims that I have made. I was accused of being related to several people I don’t even know of. I was accused of being a part of groups that don’t even exist. Most of all, I was put to shame for being just another “Samuelita”. If I knew what that was, I’m sure I would have admitted it. When I first ate out of this tree, I was interrogated for personal information. Therefore, I gave in a sarcastic manner, just for the fact that they demanded it, true personal information about myself such as: favorite color, DOB, where I live, etc. And in return, all I wanted to know was what Church THEY were from, which by the way I never received info of. And because they immediately responded to me with attitudes, I became defensive in my writing. Then, Oscar started to give these long expressive ornate speeches about his truth about our Church. To me, they were ostentatious. However, I’m glad I read them. They themselves refuted his egregious claims. His claim on us paying homage to Apostle Aaron on August 14 is completely despicable. I replied expressing how big of a liar he was. Personally, I have been a part of the Church for 2 years. I gave my testimony on that reasoning. I had no clue his birthday was on August 14. I have never heard anyone even mention his name during this time. Therefore, I couldn’t believe anything else that he has said, especially when he accused me of being related to someone else. His comrades have played a great part in his coup to ruin Apostle Samuel’s reputation. When LLDM replied to their comments, they quickly were ready to refute anything we had to say. Their object was not to help but to make contest between us. Why so? Of course, they want to portray our tenuous insides, which I give credit to them for doing so. They portrayed our weakness in being Christians and have made us stronger in what we believe. Perhaps, we could have responded in a better mood. It was in our evil nature not to do so. In this statement, it would make sense to say we our imperfect, for the fact that we came here in the first place. Replying to their comments was futile. You could not stay on one subject for long. As soon as we replied, their response was I AM RIGHT YOU ARE WRONG. These people are not trying to help. They are evil people who love to quarrel and live doing so. It is by that these people feel good about themselves. They compared us to the Pharisees, and I did as well. We felt we had to be on the blog responding because if we didn’t, we were wrong in doing so. They would be ALL LLDM MEMBERS JUST LEAVE. Therefore, with their fabricated comments, we were led back, writing, as I wrote this. They embellished their comments and claimed the “Holy Spirited” guided them. Only thing is, they lack the Holy Spirit and the understanding of how to obtain it. To most people, their sermons, as I will call them, were cryptic and superfluous. Most of the things they said were unnecessary hatred toward Apostle Samuel, which their hard hearts will never allow them to believe. And because they’re so hard to comprehend, people will never understand them. They will live with their “own” control to salvation. As they find those itchy ears that want to hear what they have to say, they too will live with their own control to salvation. My brother in Christ Jeziel (also charged with being related to me), whom I don’t know personally, responded with an intrepid attitude. As soon as I saw his comments, I told him not to waste his time. Courageous or not, Satan doesn’t care. He will grasp you with whatever lie or slander in which he can put into your mind.
Genesis Chapter 2
8 Now the LORD God had planted a garden in the east, in Eden; and there he put the man he had formed. 9 And the LORD God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground—trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
15 The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it. 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die.”
Genesis Chapter 3
1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?”
2 The woman said to the serpent “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’ ”
4 “You will not surely die,” the serpent said to the woman. 5 “For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”
6 When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it. 7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.
8 Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the LORD God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the LORD God among the trees of the garden. 9 But the LORD God called to the man, “Where are you?”
10 He answered, “I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid.”
11 And he said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?”
12 The man said, “The woman you put here with me—she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it.”
13 Then the LORD God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?”
The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.”
I’m beseeching whoever comes to this site to not be misled of who we are. The people who created this site don’t care about you. They are the serpents trying to deceive you. And as soon as they do, everything will go bad. Let me give you a short testimony. My cousin left the Church for a man out of Church. She was baptized and received the Holy Spirit. This man didn’t believe in the Church. He is an infamous Catholic. He found it wrong that man and women were divided. My cousin was madly “in love” with him. This man beats her, mistreats her daughter, and even is a drug addict. And this same very man, claims to be close to the God. Well, when my cousin left the Church, nothing turned out good for him. She has three kids with him now. He has no job or education. He recently told my brother that he is trying to knock my cousin up as many times as he can till he gets a “boy”. This same “Catholic”, I mean Christian, has dragged my cousin out of a life that was pleasing to God. What was it that beat her? Her evil nature, or sex, beat her. Now, she lives a horrible life. I look at her and hope that God never permits me to leave the Church. If believing means believing in arguments, believe whatever Oscar or his comrades have to say. You can’t ever know the truth till you experience it yourself. And my experiences through a Baptist, catholic, Methodist, Pentecostal, Immanuel and even Lutheran Church have brought me to believe even stronger in that truth. Living out of the Church, was a life that I never want to experience again. When I was baptized March 22, 2009, I thanked God for allowing me to believe. It was something that not everyone is permitted by God to do. It was not so, I would not be praising God today. Just as God hardened Pharaoh’s heart, he hardens many hearts today. Why? God sees a heart. Ultimately, a heart will tell a lot. A bit over a year now, I am blessed with such knowledge of Christ through the bible because of the understanding of Apostle’s Samuel’s interpretation. If life is all about rescuing it yourself, don’t let any of us stop you from being a maverick. My apologies are to everyone for rudeness and any feeling that I gave you that was “unchristian”. However, AGE shouldn’t give anyone reason to ignore someone. Here is the entire scripture of David being Anointed:
Samuel Anoints David as King
1 Now the Lord said to Samuel, “You have mourned long enough for Saul. I have rejected him as king of Israel, so fill your flask with olive oil and go to Bethlehem. Find a man named Jesse who lives there, for I have selected one of his sons to be my king.”
2 But Samuel asked, “How can I do that? If Saul hears about it, he will kill me.”
“Take a heifer with you,” the Lord replied, “and say that you have come to make a sacrifice to the Lord. 3 Invite Jesse to the sacrifice, and I will show you which of his sons to anoint for me.”
4 So Samuel did as the Lord instructed. When he arrived at Bethlehem, the elders of the town came trembling to meet him. “What’s wrong?” they asked. “Do you come in peace?”
5 “Yes,” Samuel replied. “I have come to sacrifice to the Lord. Purify yourselves and come with me to the sacrifice.” Then Samuel performed the purification rite for Jesse and his sons and invited them to the sacrifice, too.
6 When they arrived, Samuel took one look at Eliab and thought, “Surely this is the Lord’s anointed!”
7 But the Lord said to Samuel, “Don’t judge by his appearance or height, for I have rejected him. The Lord doesn’t see things the way you see them. People judge by outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart.”
8 Then Jesse told his son Abinadab to step forward and walk in front of Samuel. But Samuel said, “This is not the one the Lord has chosen.” 9 Next Jesse summoned Shimea,[a] but Samuel said, “Neither is this the one the Lord has chosen.” 10 In the same way all seven of Jesse’s sons were presented to Samuel. But Samuel said to Jesse, “The Lord has not chosen any of these.” 11 Then Samuel asked, “Are these all the sons you have?”
“There is still the youngest,” Jesse replied. “But he’s out in the fields watching the sheep and goats.”
“Send for him at once,” Samuel said. “We will not sit down to eat until he arrives.”
12 So Jesse sent for him. He was dark and handsome, with beautiful eyes.
And the Lord said, “This is the one; anoint him.”
13 So as David stood there among his brothers, Samuel took the flask of olive oil he had brought and anointed David with the oil. And the Spirit of the Lord came powerfully upon David from that day on. Then Samuel returned to Ramah
Therefore, you can understand, it is not age that matters, but what’s in the heart of a person. Most of our comments are invalid to Oscar because of our age. It’s okay because when it seems like teenagers should be arguing with each other; it’s the other way around. It’s the adults who are acting like children. Especially, when Colin laughed when I added a‘s’ to Revelation. What kind of attitude is that for an ADULT? If we have acted the way we have, at least our age can mollify anyone who is upset about it. After all, we are 16 and 17 year olds to Oscar and his comrades. And to Frank Media, if you are really a “Frank Medina”, you really have some issues. It’s crazy when someone can read your effusive attitude with such ebullience in slandering. You write with such frenetic emotion, which to be honest creeps me out.
2 Timothy 2
14Keep reminding them of these things. Warn them before God against quarreling about words; it is of no value, and only ruins those who listen. 15Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth. 16Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly. 17Their teaching will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus,18who have wandered away from the truth. They say that the resurrection has already taken place, and they destroy the faith of some. 19Nevertheless, God’s solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness.”
22Flee the evil desires of youth, and pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, along with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart. 23Don’t have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels. 24And the Lord’s servant must not quarrel; instead, he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. 25Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth, 26and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will.
And forgive me, I first attempted with that love and peace, but I ended up falling for your wily methods to get me angry. And don’t you see, we all shouldn’t be arguing. This is exactly what I wanted to avoid in the beginning. You didn’t give me a chance to avoid it. It was all of the sudden a force to make me believe in dubious things. And as long as you all argue, you will be exactly who you are. I don’t want this to be an argument. Through this, I want to explain what exactly went on here through my experience. And most of it was accusations and assertions which all fall under one category SLANDER. I apologize for anything that has offended you, but the truth is the truth, and it shall one day set you free from an earthly view of such world at ruins. We’re in a world where everyone can’t agree on one thing. I can tell you this, in Florida the word of God for me is the same as here in San Antonio. The Word for you is not the same for Frank Medina or Colin and Chris. I read through your blog of homosexuals. I found the crack between you all’s relationships with Christ. This is where everything that you have said falls down to nothing. You all can’t even agree that homosexuality is wrong. I can see future disparity already. What a sad world… Even when one claims to be agnostic on one site and Christian on the other… When quarreling is expresses oneself…When the drunk grasps his Budlight as he bows his head to pray believing doing so will save him… Whatever fault and lie you find in us, it can’t compare to our attempt to worship God and honor him 7 days a week. Yes, over all your complaints about Apostle Samuel and the reasons he isn’t an Apostle, he has taught us to worship God 7 days. We try our best to reach a perfection we know we can’t ever reach. Yet, we try because we believe God wants us that way. If seeing means being deceived, then yes I would rather be blind all my life. “There is no worst blind man, than one who does not want to see.”-Oscar Nuno Sometimes being blind keeps you safe from seeing things we shouldn’t see. If Adam and Eve hadn’t eaten that fruit, we would all be blind to sin. Would that not have been a good thing? Let this be MY LAST REPONSE… GOD BLESS EVERYONE & Much love and sincere apologies to everybody…
BTW: Forgive me for my poor writing skills. Forgive me if I didn’t use proper grammar or if I didn’t spell or say something right. Forgive me for any other fault you find in me. GOD BLESS
May 8th, 2010 at 9:44 am
I want to answer this question, Is Jesus God, let’s think about this one second.
Hebrew 1:5 For to which of the angels did he ever say: “You are my Son, Today I have begotten you”? And again: “I will be to him a Father and He shall be to Me a Son/”
I will be to him a Father, meaning that before he was not. And he shall be to Me a Son meaning that he was not a Son to him until he begot him. So the Father is before the Son and the Son after the Father.
Let us reason a little on God and Jesus.
God has always been omniscient 1 Peter 1:2 elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father and Jesus, is he omniscient? Mark 13:32 But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
How about omnipresent? God is: Psalm 139:7 where can I go from Your Spirit?
Or where can I flee from Your presence If I ascend into heaven, You are there; If I make my bed in hell, behold, You are there. And Jesus? John 11:14 Then Jesus said to them plainly, “Lazarus is dead. 15 And I am glad for your sakes that I was not there, that you may believe. Nevertheless let us go to him.”
Omnipotent? God: Genesis 35:11 Also God said to him: “I am God Almighty. Jesus: Mathew 28:18 “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Again, who gave this to him? When? Has he always had this authority? God has.
God has always had this attributes, has Jesus always had them or does he have them?
So is God and Jesus the same?, No even Jesus had his own will.
Is Jesus God? Yes, he is, because he rules over everything, God has given him everything, but there will come a time when even Jesus will subject himself to the Father.
1 Corinthians 15:27 27 For “He has put all things under His feet.”[a] But when He says “all things are put under Him,” it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. 28 Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.
May 7th, 2010 at 11:40 pm
Huuuuy que miedo! I’m dying to know the “final message” from Granados!
Jeziel calls my information “venom”. How I would call Samuel’s misleading words? I would call them a drug that makes the brain from the people in LLDM to stop thinking and listening to the authentic word of God. It’s like aspid’s breath that paralyzes it’s victims before devour them.
But doubt not Jeziel, I would not stop telling the people who really is Samuel Joaquin and his MALIGNANT progeny. If you prefer to continue living in “Samueland” instead of the kingdom of God, it is your choice, wrong but only yours. God Bless You. You really need it.
May 7th, 2010 at 1:50 pm
I’ll respond my final message very soon…
May 7th, 2010 at 12:31 pm
Oscar
What type of threats are you getting from LLDM, if you do not mind me asking?
Colin
You and Chris are gifted with the holy spirit. I am happy to be a part of Oscars web sight. The members of LLDM are fighting the truth that we are trying to show them. But thank God for you Colin, Chris and Oscar, know we can try to prevent more people that do not know about the lies yet and are not brain washed yet, and hopefully some will have an open eye to the truth.
May 7th, 2010 at 10:53 am
Jeziel,
Please clarify – do you mean to imply that I am a coward? I never implied such a thing about you, but because of your bravado I am forced to again ask you a question that you have not attempted to answer.
Jeziel: Is Jesus God?
The death of the Lord Jesus Christ on the cross is not something that any one certain day must be set aside to remember – it can be done every day.
“For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.”(1 Corinthians 11:26)
The Apostle Paul did not say it was only to be celebrated August 14 or that people should travel to any one particular place to celebrate, but he said “whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.”
Now, the Apostle Paul also said that Christ was put to death, but He was raised to life on the 3rd day and that all the Old Testament testifies about Christ – who He is, where He came from, and that He was to suffer, be put to death and be raised to life on the 3rd day. And that redemption and forgiveness of sins would be preached in His name to all nations.
LLDM teaches that Jesus’ body was left in the grave, that He did not resurrect in a physical body. That He only appeared in visions to the disciples, and that only His Spirit returned to heaven, the same spirit that now lives in “Apostle” Samuel and that is why we must believe in him to mediate to God for us.
The problem is this is not the Gospel. Jesus did resurrect from the grave in a physical body, that’s a historical fact. And in that body He ascended to heaven. What LLDM teaches about Jesus is contrary to the Scriptures.
“So the women hurried away from the tomb, afraid yet filled with joy, and ran to tell his disciples. Suddenly Jesus met them. “Greetings,” he said. They came to him, clasped his feet and worshiped him. Then Jesus said to them, “Do not be afraid. Go and tell my brothers to go to Galilee; there they will see me.”(Matthew 28:8-10)
How did they clasp His feet when they worshipped Him if He was just a vision of a spirit?
“While the women were on their way, some of the guards went into the city and reported to the chief priests everything that had happened. When the chief priests had met with the elders and devised a plan, they gave the soldiers a large sum of money, telling them, “You are to say, ‘His disciples came during the night and stole him away while we were asleep.’ If this report gets to the governor, we will satisfy him and keep you out of trouble.” So the soldiers took the money and did as they were instructed. And this story has been widely circulated among the Jews to this very day.”(Matthew 28:11-15)
The guards watching the tomb reported that Jesus’ body was no longer in the tomb. Where did the body go if He was not Resurrected immortal, and is not alive in it today?
“While they were still talking about this, Jesus himself stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.”
They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a ghost. He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.”
When he had said this, he showed them his hands and feet. And while they still did not believe it because of joy and amazement, he asked them, “Do you have anything here to eat?” They gave him a piece of broiled fish, and he took it and ate it in their presence.”(Luke 24:28-43)
Spirits and visions do not have hands and feet that you can touch and cannot eat broiled fish with people.
“In my former book, Theophilus, I wrote about all that Jesus began to do and to teach until the day he was taken up to heaven, after giving instructions through the Holy Spirit to the apostles he had chosen. After his suffering, he showed himself to these men and gave many convincing proofs that he was alive. He appeared to them over a period of forty days and spoke about the kingdom of God. On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: “Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about. For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”
So when they met together, they asked him, “Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?”
He said to them: “It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”
After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight.
They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. “Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.”(Acts 1:1-11)
That is the Gospel. His death was for our forgiveness, His resurrection was for our Salvation. The only man who ever lived a perfect sinless life – the Lord Jesus Christ. Not only was He man, but He is God also and He willingly went to suffer on the cross. When He was put to death, He rose from the grave on the 3rd day. Over the next several weeks, He appeared to over 500 people and instructed them all to tell everyone that He was alive. He then ascended to the right hand of the Father where He now sits as our Great High priest to mediate to God for sins. The Lord Jesus Christ is alive in a body today and that is why we do not need Samuel Joaquin or anyone else to intercede for us.
Not only is Jesus Christ alive today, but He is going to return for those who believe and obey the message of His chosen disciples (the men who had the privilege of revealing Christ and the mysteries of God to us in the New Testament).
What is their message? I refer again to the Apostle Paul
“Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve. After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.”(1 Corinthians 15:1-8)
What need do we have for believing in Samuel?
“Now there have been many of those priests, since death prevented them from continuing in office; but because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood. Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.”(Hebrews 7:23-25)
“…Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts as you did at Meribah,”(Psalm 95:7-8)
“As has just been said:
“Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts
as you did in the rebellion.”(Hebrews 3:15)
May 7th, 2010 at 9:04 am
That is why I write here, BECAUSE I’M NAUSEATED BY THE CORRUPTION OF THE JOAQUIN FAMILY AND THE STUPIDITY OF LA LUZ DEL MUNDO MEMBERS!
Frank, Just leave if your nauseated just leave and forget and not give your venomous lies to anyone else.