La Luz Del Mundo: A Church Founded on Lies
I find it painful and rather bothersome how masses can be brainwashed with lies and deceit, how some twisted individuals take advantage of people’s genuine faith in God by making them believe they are messiahs. I grow weary of false prophets and religious establishments founded on lies. You, as the reader, tell me: is it right for Christianity to be spread if the church’s foundation is based on lies? Personally, I think Christianity can spread with integrity, slowly but surely, without false prophets starting churches at every corner.
There is this particular church in mind called La Luz del Mundo, which translates directly to English as The Light of the World. It is a Christian denomination church headquartered in my father’s hometown of Guadalajara, Jalisco in Mexico. The church claims to be the largest non-Catholic Church in all of Latin America, and its main church, in Guadalajara, can accommodate approximately 12,000 worshipers. The Light of the World has about 5 million members in about 40 countries. All this information is all good and all, the problem lies in its foundation.
My father and his family have long tidings with this church, as most of his siblings and his parents (my grandparents) belonged or continue to belong to this church. He knows the inner workings of the church from close range and saw things that made him refuse to be a member of it. Needless to say, my father is the most ethical man I know, and if he saw wrong, then there was something wrong. He was enveloped in this church practically since birth. Since he is not a member of the church, his own siblings turned their back on him, preferring their religious brothers and sisters than their own blood. They never call to even say hello. My grandparents on my Dad’s side were never like that. Heck, my grandfather was eventually disillusioned and refused the position of pastor in his later years. An uncle, one that is not a member of this church, recently told me this about The Light of the World : “Those people are disrespectful and hypocrites”.
The church was started by a man named Aaron Joaquin Gonzales who (like Paul who encountered Jesus on the road to Damascus and was instructed to go as an apostle to the gentiles) was also called on as an apostle in 1926 in Monterrey, Mexico. This made him apostle #14, after Paul and the twelve original apostles. Aaron Joaquin Gonzales thus began to preach this new church and began to have many followers by making them believe he was “appointed” by God himself to “restore the church of Jesus Christ”. Like many churches, this church is no different in that it has evolved into a money-hungry establishment. Aaron Joaquin was revered as a deity, God on earth mentality by his followers. He passed away on June 9, 1964, and as it is common, his son, Samuel Joaquin Flores, took control of the church afterwards. It has been this man who has expanded The Light of the World to its current state and continues to serve as the director of the church. Here is the catch: He is also an apostle, on the same terms as Paul, Thomas, Peter, and the others! He is apostle #15, after his father of course, and according to his 5 million followers. I have never heard of an apostle passing down the powers of apostleship to his son but it happened here.
The only good thing I see about this church is that it introduces people to Christ and the Bible. That is the only thing. People are bred into the church and arranged marriages are not uncommon. Every year, on August 14, wherever people of the congregation may be, they must travel to Guadalajara to pay homage to the apostle of Jesus Christ. It used to be that people would kiss his hand and place their tithe in a large jar next to him. Nowadays, it is no longer required to kiss his hand. Samuel Joaquin is, of course, filthy rich. Brainwashing ignorant masses can make you so, tax free. It will be very interesting to see if they were the 14th and 15th apostles in reality. 
1,636 Responses to “La Luz Del Mundo: A Church Founded on Lies”
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May 19th, 2010 at 6:46 pm
“old Frank”,
hahaha are you serious? You are now blatantly telling lies. Did you read those statements you pasted here? Nowhere in either statement does Frank Medina state that he engaged in such activities as you claim.
All this because you cannot answer a simple question? You ask my view of homosexuals – why? To change the topic? If you want to know my view, it is posted to Oscar’s blog “On Homosexuals.”
But let’s not change the subject, “Old Frank” – why are you still avoiding a simple question?
The question is this: What is our source for truth? Is it SJF’s thoughts/feelings of (or LLDM’s interpretation of) what the Bible means, or is it the context of what the Bible itself actually says?
There is no way to discuss anything with you if you will not establish this, Frank – what is our source for determining truth?
Respectfully, I do not base truth on what Frank Medina says nor on what you say. I base truth on the Bible, and regardless of any of Medina’s claims, the fact is that according to the Bible – LLDM is preaching a false gospel.
What is your source for truth, “Old Frank”?
May 19th, 2010 at 6:04 pm
All,
I just want to let everybody know that your so called “holy spirit” has misguided you to believe that Frank Medina stories are REAL I had already informed Oscar about this guy being an imposter and trying to create stories that are far from the truth. He is really a perpetual liar and corrupt that he is using his life style to create sensationalism in his stories which are all lies and he is really playing with your minds.
I want you to pay attention about the following two posting that were done by him, one on this blog and the other on another that was transcribed by someone else but that he signed as F. Medina. The story is the same as he stated on this blog, but he gives more details on one of them in which he says that he participated in homosexual activities with other people. If you read this blog he has made several references in several postings about homosexually, there is no doubt this guy is a liar, an imposter, corrupt, and homosexual. Two stories told by the same individual in slightly differen ways. There goes your main source of real thruth about our church La Luz del Mundo!!!
Colin, what is your take on homosexuality in the church of Jesus Christ, the Son of God? Food for thought.
The old Frank
1. 758
Frank Medina Says:
January 4th, 2010 at 2:58 pm
Oscar:
Knowing that you live in Houston, TX I will suggest you to research a little into something that happened about 14 years ago.
I overheard a conversation between Benjamin Joaquín García (Samuel Joaquin son) and a brother called Pablo Mendoza (the choir director in those years) in the offices of the old temple before the construction of the new temple started.
The topic was Benjamin’s concern from the consequences that would be if a problem that was happening with a group of young boys appointed to guard the house were Asael Joaquín was convalescing from his accident would be known by the fathers of the boys and even by law authorities.
This group of approximately 10 to 14 boys were corrupted by a missionary or “obrero” put in charge of the group. The name of the missionary was Edgar or Edward. This missionary was about 20 to 25 years old.
The problem was so gross, that the boys after being seduced by the missionary, use to have homosexual sex with each other (not at the same time I think) in the trailer house parked outside of Asael’s house while performing their commission.
Benjamin’s concern was the social cost in the church and the cost of a legal battle if this problem would be known by “enemies” of the church.
His concern was not about the welfare of the boys but his good standing in his father opinion and the church’s monies.
I’m pretty sure Samuel Joaquin Flores knows about this, but nothing happened to the corrupt missionary. I knew that now he is a minister in LLDM.
The advise from the other brother was to kick out the missionary and send him to a remote “obrita” until the problem was contained.
I don’t know the final outcome since I did not returned to Houston for several years.
Would you dig about to know what happened please and let us know? Maybe Benjamin Joaquín would give you an interview! LOL
However, I think that there will be at least one of the victims (because that is what they are) will came out of the woodwork, to paraphrase Frank’s favorite word and now mine, and tell his story knowing that there will be a lot of people symphatetic to his suffering.
I’m pretty sure that there are a lot of marriages in trouble nowadays because of the covering of this problem in LLDM @ Eastex Freeway I Houston Tx.
I say to the victims of this crime to not be concern about the financial burden to LLDM if this became a legal battle. The worst it would happend is that one or two of the wild animals in the Silver Wolf Ranch wold be without food for some weeks. Nothing critical!
‘POR SUS FRUTOS LOS CONOCEREIS’
por vigilante07
TRANSCRIPCION DE ENTRADA DEL BLOG
http://groups.msn.com/IGLESIALALUZDELMUNDOEX/mensajes.msnw
A LOS MIEMBROS DE LA LUZ DEL MUNDO, ESPECIALMENTE AQUELLOS QUE FUERON AFECTADOS COMO YO VA ESTE TESTIMONIO:
YO PERTENECI A LA LUZ DEL MUNDO EN HOUSTON TEXAS. SIN EMBARGO FUI CORROMPIDO POR UN OBRERO DE LA IGLESIA QUE ERA NUESTRO COORDINADOR EN UN GRUPO DE JOVENES QUE NOS ACOMEDIMOS A CUIDAR DE LA CASA DEL HERMANO SAMUEL DONDE TENIA HOSPEDADO A SU HIJO ASAEL DURANTE LA CONVALESCENCIA DE SU ACCIDENTE AUTOMOVILISTICO DONDE CASI PERDIO LA MITAD DE SU CEREBRO Y LA VIDA. ESTE “OBRERO” FUE PUESTO POR EL PASTOR BENJAMIN JOAQUIN PARA FORMAR UN GRUPO DE JOVENES DE 12 A 17 AÑOS DE EDAD PARA CUIDAR Y VELAR ESA CASA. ESTE “OBRERO” CUYO NOMBRE NO TE PUEDO MENCIONAR PUES MI ABOGADO ESTA PREPARANDO UNA DEMANDA POR ABUSO DE MENORES EN SU CONTRA Y CONTRA LOS QUE RESULTEN RESPONSABLES, YA QUE NO SOLO FUI YO ABUSADO, SINO TODOS LOS JOVENES DEL GRUPO (APROX. 9 O 10 JOVENES) FUIMOS INDUCIDOS A TENER RELACIONES SEXUALES CON EL Y LUEGO ENTRE TODOS NOSOTROS. YO ME ACERQUE A PEDIR CONSEJO PUES ME SENTIA “SUCIO”, CON EL PASTOR QUE EN ESE TIEMPO ERA BENJAMIN JOAQUIN GARCIA (HIJO DEL SIERVO DE DIOS), SIN EMBARGO EL ME DIJO QUE NO DIJERA NADA, NI SIQUIERA A MIS PADRES, Y QUE EL HIBA A HABLAR CON LOS DEMAS PORQUE SI DECIAN ALGO, HIBA A SER UN GRAN ESCANDALO PARA LA IGLESIA Y ESO QUEDARIA EN NUESTRAS CONCIENCIAS. YO CALLE DURANTE MUCHOS AÑOS CREYENDO QUE YO ERA EL CULPABLE DE LO QUE ME HABIA PASADO. VARIAS VECES INTENTE SUICIDARME. LA ULTIMA VEZ, HACE APROX. 1 AÑO UN SICOLOGO DEL CONDADO DE HARRIS QUE ME ESTABA TRATANDO, LOGRO ABRIR MI RESISTENCIA SICOLOGICA PARA PODER SUPERAR EL TRAUMA QUE ME ESTABA DESTRUYENDO. DESDE ENTONCES HE ESTADO TRATANDO DE CONTACTAR A LOS OTROS JOVENES DEL GRUPO DE LAS VELADAS PARA CONVENCERLOS DE PROCEDER COMO YO, SIN EMBARGO LA MAYORIA ESTAN CASADOS Y CON HIJOS Y ME DICEN QUE LES DARIA MUCHA VERGUENZA QUE SE SUPIERA, PUES ALGUNOS SON MUY CONSAGRADOS EN LA IGLESIA Y HASTA ORACIONES LLEVAN, PERO SOBRE TODO TIENEN TEMOR DE QUE SUS ESPOSAS SE ENTEREN. SIN EMBARGO LE ESTOY PIDIENDO A DIOS QUE ME DE FORTALEZA PARA SUPERAR ESTE TRAUMA.
UNA AMIGA DE MI ESPOSA (QUIEN TAMBIEN DEJO LA LUZ DEL MUNDO CUANDO LE PLATIQUE MI PROBLEMA) LE PLATICO LLORANDO UNA OCASION, QUE ELLA HABIA SIDO ABUSADA POR UN PASTOR DE LA IGLESIA LLAMADO CARLOS MOTEMAYOR CUANDO ELLA TENIA APROX. 15 AÑOS. MI ESPOSA LE PREGUNTO QUE PORQUE NO LE HABIA DICHO A SUS PADRES O A ALGUNA AUTORIDAD Y ELLA LE DIJO QUE LE HABIA DICHO A SUS PADRES, PERO QUE NO LE HABIAN CREIDO LO QUE LE ACONTECIO, QUE DEJARAN DE BLASFEMAR CONTRA LA AUTORIDAD DE DIOS Y QUE EL DIABLO SE LES HABIA METIDO.
DIJO ELLA QUE EL PASTOR LAS HACIA ESPERAR A ELLA Y A OTRA DE SUS HERMANAS MENOR QUE ELLA, EN LAS OFICINAS DEL TEMPLO ANTERIOR QUE FUE DEMOLIDO PARA CONSTRUIR EL NUEVO. ELLAS LES DECIAN A SUS PADRES QUE SE TENIAN QUE QUEDAR A AYUDAR AL PASTOR CON LAS COMPUTADORAS A LLEVAR EL REGISTRO DE ORACIONES Y ASISTENCIAS DE LOS MIEMBROS DE LA IGLESIA. DESPUES QUE TODOS LOS HERMANOS SE RETIRABAN, EL LES ORDENABA QUE SE METIEARAN A SU CARRO EN EL ASIENTO DE ATRAS ACOSTADAS EN EL PISO O AGACHADAS PARA QUE NADIE LAS VIERAN. DESPUES EL SALIA Y LAS LLEVABA A UN MOTEL DONDE SE PONIA A VER CANALES PORNOGRAFICOS Y DESPUES LES INDICABA QUE LE HICIERAN A EL LO QUE VEIAN EN LA PANTALLA. CUANDO ELLAS LE DIJERO QUE ESO NO ESTABA BIEN, EL PASTOR LES DECIA QUE NO HIBAN A PECAR PORQUE EL TENIA LA AUTORIDAD DEL APOSTOL DE DIOS PUES LA AUTORIDAD DE DIOS ERA “COMO UNA CADENA, DIOS ESTABA CONECTADO CON EL APOSTOL, EL PASTOR ESTABA CONECTADO AL APOSTOL Y ELLAS HIBAN A CONECTARSE CON EL” ASI QUE REALMENTE HIBAN A “CONECTARSE” CON DIOS MISMO ATRAVES DE LA CADENA DE AUTORIDAD. DESPUES DE CALMARLAS CON ESOS ARGUMENTOS, PROCEDIA A TENER SEXO ORAL CON ELLAS Y PARA TERMINAR, LAS SODOMIZABA (LAS PENETRABA POR EL RECTO). CUANDO ELLAS SE QUERIAN RESISTIR PUES ERA MUY DOLOROSO PARA ELLAS, EL LES DECIA QUE ASI, SEGUIRIAN SIENDO VIRGENES EN ALMA Y CUERPO Y SE PODRIAN CASAR DE BLANCO Y CON TODA LA HONRA EN LA IGLESIA. TODO ESTO CON LA COMPLICIDAD DE LA ESPOSA DEL PASTOR LLAMADA JUANITA.
EL CONOCER ESTO ME HIZO RECAPACITAR Y HACER LO QUE ESTOY HACIENDO. NO QUIERO DAÑAR A LOS MIEMBROS DE LA IGLESIA PUES SE QUE LA MAYORIA SON SINCEROS Y NO HAN TENIDO LA DESGRACIA DE EXPERIMENTAR LO QUE YO Y OTROS MUCHOS QUE PREFIEREN CALLAR O SE ALEJAN DE LA LUZ DEL MUNDO CALLADOS Y LLORANDO EN SILENCIO, CON EL ALMA TRAUMATIZADA, PUES YA NO SE PUEDE VOLVER A CONFIAR EN NINGUNA “IGLESIA” MUCHO MENOS EN OTRO “SIERVO DE DIOS”.
A LA JERARQUIA DE LA IGLESIA LA LUZ DEL MUNDO:
RECUERDEN QUE NO SOLO ES CULPABLE EL QUE COMETE EL DELITO, SINO EL QUE LO PROPICIA CON SU SILENCIO COMPLICE Y SU FALTA DE VOLUNTAD PARA ECHAR FUERA AL CORRUPTOR Y ENTREGARLO A LAS AUTORIDADES.
HERMANO BENNY, VEA EL CASO DEL CARDENAL MAHONY DE LOS ANGELES, POR NO DESCUBRIR A LOS CURAS PEDOFILOS BAJO SU AUTORIDAD, AHORA ESTA TAMBIEN BAJO DEMANDAS.
POST DATA:
SE DE BUENA FUENTE QUE EL PASTOR CARLOS MOTEMAYOR FUE REINSTALADO EN EL CUERPO MINISTERIAL, AHORA ES DIACONO EN SANTA ANA, CA Y BAUTIZA Y SE DEDICA A PREDICAR CONTRA “LOS CURAS PEDOFILOS DE LA IGLESIA CATOLICA, PERVERSOS CORRUPTORES DE MENORES” (AL LADRON! AL LADRON!). CUIDADO HERMANOS DE SANTA ANA, NO DEJEN A SUS HIJAS SOLAS CON ESTE DEGENERADO, PUES SEGUN EXPERTOS EN DELITOS SEXUALES, LA PEDOFILIA ES TRATABLE PERO NO CURABLE!
POST DATA:
AL REFERIRSE A PASTORES, SE ENTIENDE EL OFICIO DE ESTAR AL FRENTE DE UN GRUPO DE MIEMBROS, NO A UNA POSICION JERARQUICA. EN LA LUZ DEL MUNDO, PASTOR ES UN GRADO JERARQUICO. S
LA ESTRUCTURA JERARQUICA EN LA LUZ DEL MUNDO ES COMO SIGUE (EN ORDER DESCENDIENTE):
1.- APOSTOL (SOLO PUEDE HABER UNO A LA VEZ, NO COMO EN LA PRIMITIVA IGLESIA CRISTIANA, QUE HABIA VARIOS.
Comentario por vigilante07 22,Marzo 2008 @ 5:27 pm
CONTINUACION….
POST DATA:
AL REFERIRSE A PASTORES EN EL ARTICULO ANTERIOR, SE ENTIENDE POR ‘PASTOR’ EL OFICIO DE ESTAR AL FRENTE DE UN GRUPO DE MIEMBROS, NO A UNA POSICION JERARQUICA. EN LA LUZ DEL MUNDO, PASTOR ES UN GRADO JERARQUICO.
LA ESTRUCTURA JERARQUICA EN LA LUZ DEL MUNDO ES COMO SIGUE, AUNQUE SIGUE MODIFICANDOSE PARA ACOMODAR POSICIONES DE HONOR (EN ORDER DESCENDIENTE):
1.- APOSTOL (SOLO PUEDE HABER UNO A LA VEZ, NO COMO EN LA PRIMITIVA IGLESIA CRISTIANA, QUE HABIA VARIOS).
2.- PASTOR OBISPO (CON VARIANTES, “EVANGELISTA”, “PROFETA”, “DOCTOR” ETC.)
3.- PASTOR (CON VARIANTES, “EVANGELISTA”, “PROFETA”, “DOCTOR” ETC.)
3.- DIACONO (CON VARIANTES, “EVANGELISTA”, “PROFETA”, “DOCTOR” ETC.) PUEDE HABER MUJERES SOLO ASTA ESTA POSICION
4.- ENCARGADO
5.- OBRERO
6.- MIEMBRO (ACTIVO, RETIRADO TEMPORAL, ETC.)
F. MEDINA
Comentario por vigilante07 22,Marzo 2008 @ 5:38 pm
May 19th, 2010 at 4:27 pm
just have to say that im sorry you see the church this way and what is true to you anyway?
May 19th, 2010 at 1:27 pm
It is very apparent that some people “salieron cortos en el repartimiento de cerebros”.
Of course like Samuel and his children and most of his pastors. What education does Samuel have, again? That’s right, zero. Just an honorary doctorate that any rich philantropist can get. Your gas tank is running on empty Frank. I hope you don’t break down again and tell me I have monas or whatever. Gente que cree la fantasía que Samuel es libre de pecado y que necesitan al apóstol para llegar al cielo, si que llegaron muy tarde a la repartición de cerebros, como tu dices.
May 19th, 2010 at 12:44 pm
Old Frank,
Likewise there are the many many many verses to prove His divinity which you choose not to accept. Plus the title Son of God actually proves His divinity because He is not the son like you are a son (humanly speaking).
You are making a grave mistake in not knowing what the bible is testifying of. The whole bible from Genesis to Revelations testify of Jesus. He preexisted before coming to die for our sins. You choose to not accept this. The Jews of Jesus day made the same mistake. They are God’s own chosen people knowing God the Father but not knowing God the Son.
Your church says the hardest thing for people to accept is that there is a living apostle today. I say the hardest thing for people to accept is that God became flesh and dwelt among us! Many other “cults” if you study them they go through many efforts to change the scriptures or spiritualize the bible to make Jesus less than He is. In fact I have been told by LLDM that we take the bible too literally. well you dont take it literally enough. Jesus was only less for roughly 33 years while on this earth because of His purpose of salvation. If you only knew of the prophecies of the old testament you would know that He had to become Man for a time. What do you think the whole purpose of having A chosen people?? Not so they could boast but to bring a line of decendents from which Jesus must come from.
You call us gentiles that are blind to the truth but Frank if you are not a Jew by birth well then you are a gentile too. And this is of course according the Scripture. Of course if you read more you will realize there is no Jew or Gentile anymore in Christ. But you have to have the real Jesus!
May you grow in the grace and KNOWLEDGE of the Lord Jesus Christ.
May 19th, 2010 at 12:37 pm
sorry Colin
I wrote my comment but your post was not their yet. This is exactly what we have been trying to show LLDM is that the holy spirit is the same when it is sent by God.
May 19th, 2010 at 12:32 pm
Old frank
You do not recognize Jesus as Gods son you see him as a man with a spirit is that correct? Gods son, dose that give you a clue that he is a God? let me repeat my self Gods son, is that any more clear. Dose it say Gods little man? little human? no it says Gods son, the almighty and omega of us little human sinners. Jesus who died for us on a cross to forgive us for all of our sins. Jesus dose not have the blood of marry and Joseph marry was a virgin at that time, the holy spirit was in her planted by God. Do you believe that marry was a virgin before having Jesus?
May 19th, 2010 at 12:31 pm
“Old Frank,” this is a very simple question, and it requires a very simple answer. I do not understand why you continue to avoid this:
What is our source for truth? Is it SJF’s thoughts/feelings of (or LLDM’s interpretation of) what the Bible means, or is it the context of what the Bible itself actually says?
This is the same issue we had before when talking with you, Frank. We all agree that Jesus is the Son of God. But what does that mean? He was conceived by the Holy Spirit, so…is Jesus half a God? Even as far as DNA goes, He is the seed of the woman only, so what does that mean, Frank, according to Genesis 3? Please explain what it means to be the Son of God?
The other issue we continue to have with you is that you pick and choose verses from the Bible. You pay extra close attention to the verses declaring Jesus as the Son of Man and Son of God, but you completely avoid and ignore the verses which declare the Deity and eternality of the Son.
“But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.”(Hebrews 1:8)
“Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.”(John 8:58)
“And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.”(Revelation 22:12-13)
Frank it is indeed illogical to discuss anything with you if you will not answer a simple question to establish what is our guide for finding truth?
What is our source for truth? Is it SJF’s thoughts/feelings of (or LLDM’s interpretation of) what the Bible means, or is it the context of what the Bible itself actually says?
May 19th, 2010 at 11:52 am
You guys are really desperate for the lack of a better argument now are turning into copy a paste, it is very apparent that some people “salieron cortos en el repartimiento de cerebros”
It is ilogical for me to answer Colin and everybody else questions about anything that they can think of, when I presented a topic that can be easily titled “Explanation of who is God and who is Jesus for DUMMIES” and you guys still do not get it.
The bible is full (many many verses) stating that Jesus is the Son of God, and you guys with your own so called “holy spirit” cannot decipher it. Go read where Jesus gathered his diciples and started explaining the paraboles and they questioned, why didn’t you explain it to the rest of the people; Jesus said so that they hearing cannot hear and seeing they cannot see, that this sounds familiar.
The old Frank
May 19th, 2010 at 10:33 am
THE CONCEPT OF THE GREAT APOSTASY
Most significant, Evangelical Christians not following the rites of Latin Catholic and Orthodox Christian denominations have formally taught that at some point in history, the original teachings and practices of the primitive or original Christian church were greatly altered. All of these denominations have considered their own teachings to be major corrections of the errors of the state of Christianity preceding them, and for this reason believe that their separated continuation, especially outside of the Catholic-Orthodox-Anglican traditions, is not only justifiable, but a necessary measure. These views are not necessarily taught in the modern descendant denominations; but historically this type of doctrinal stance accounts for the continuing separation of the denominations from the Anglican, Catholic and Orthodox communions.
All of these groups differ in their perception of the types and the extent of errors evident in Catholic-Anglican-Orthodox traditions, and therefore their proposed corrections also differ, but all agree that the Catholic-Anglican-Orthodox tradition is to some important degree corrupted and apostate in the sense that it will not or cannot be reformed; to the extent other separated denominations contain these rejected traditions, they also are sometimes considered corrupt. This alleged corruption and resistance to reform by the traditional, especially Catholic, churches may sometimes be called The Great Apostasy by non-Catholics.
Some groups see themselves as uniquely restoring original Christianity. In their case, the term Great Apostasy is used more technically than above, directed in a sweeping way over all of Christianity beyond their group, indicating that true Christianity has not been preserved, but rather restored. These various groups differ as to exactly when the Great Apostasy took place and what the exact errors or changes were, but all of them make a similar claim that true Christianity was generally lost until it was disclosed again in themselves. The term Great Apostasy appears to have been coined in this narrower, technical sense, by “Restorationists”. The term may sometimes be used in this sense by other groups claiming their unique authority as representing Christianity.
May 19th, 2010 at 10:32 am
Ok! I know Wikipedia is a generic source; but never the less is accurate in general. I copied and posted these facts. Read them LLDM members.
THE CONCEPT OF THE DARK AGES
From Wikipedia,
This article is about the origin and use of the term ‘Dark Ages’ as it is colloquially applied to the Middle Ages. For discussion of the historical era, see Early Middle Ages and Middle Ages.
The concept of a Dark Age originated with the Italian scholar Petrarch (Francesco Petrarca) in the 1330s, and was originally intended as a sweeping criticism of the character of Late Latin literature.[4][8] Petrarch regarded the post-Roman centuries as “dark” compared to the “light” of classical antiquity. Later historians expanded the term to refer to the transitional period between Roman times and the High Middle Ages, including not only the lack of Latin literature, but also a lack of contemporary written history, general demographic decline, limited building activity and material cultural achievements in general. Popular culture has further expanded on the term as a vehicle to depict the Middle Ages as a time of backwardness, extending its pejorative use and expanding its scope.
Petrarch, who conceived the idea of a European “Dark Age”. From Cycle of Famous Men and Women, Andrea di Bartolo di Bargilla, c. 1450The Dark Ages is a term referring to the perceived period of cultural and economic decline and disruption that took place in Western Europe following the decline of the Roman Empire.[1][2] The word is derived from Latin saeculum obscurum (dark age), a phrase first recorded in 1602.[3] The label employs traditional light-versus-darkness imagery to contrast the “darkness” of the period with earlier and later periods of “light”. Originally, the term characterized the bulk of the Middle Ages as a period of intellectual darkness between the extinguishing of the light of Rome, and the Renaissance or rebirth from the 14th century onwards.[4] This definition is still found in popular usage,[1][2][5] but increased recognition of the accomplishments of the Middle Ages since the 19th century has led to the label being restricted in application. Today it is frequently applied only to the earlier part of the era, the Early Middle Ages. However, most modern scholars who study the era tend to avoid the term altogether for its negative connotations, finding it misleading and inaccurate for any part of the Middle Ages.[6][7]
May 19th, 2010 at 10:00 am
“Carlos Montemayor” has posted videos on you tube misleading his listeners about the Concept of the DARK AGES.( LOS TIEMPOS DE TINIEBLAS) as he calls them. He uses the concept of the DARK AGES to support his reasoning as to when the primitive church dissapeared off the face of the earth; there for, salvation ceasing to exist for humanity until the calling of Aaron Joaquin to restore the primitive church.
May 19th, 2010 at 9:55 am
Oh yeah!
I know about the history of Carlos Montemayor.
Old Frank,
Will you be comming back to say Frank Medina is making up lies about the history of this guy.
May 19th, 2010 at 12:48 am
I’m flabbergasting watching a video in which Carlos Montemayor, minister in charge of the LLDM church in Phoenix, AZ, DEMANDS $50,000.00 (Fifty thousand dollars) per WEEK to his flock formed basically by illegal immigrants with low paid jobs, some of them selling tamales in the corners of the city to fulfill Carlos’ demands.
Does he knows how hard is to earn $100.00 to comply with his mandatory “contributions”?
Supposedly, all that money is going to be used in the construction of the new MEGA-CHURCH.
This is in addition (as Carlos is clarifying in the sermon) to ALL the other monetary obligations like collects for SJF’s ranchs and celebrations all year round.
Additionally, every family should provide for meals to the “voluntary workers” one day a week on their own expenses.
Besides that, Carlos is known for his taste and inclination for young girls. I have not doubt that a big portion of the money will end in the private accounts of Carlos and his relatives, including the expenses in his “personal treatments” in discrete massage parlors.
Around 1993 Carlos was called to give reason of all the money spent in an arbitrary way by the “apostle”. Since he couldn’t justify the pilfering of hundreds of thousand dollars, was degraded from the status of Pastor to a simple “obrero” without any authority. He lately recovered his status of “diacono” (Deacon), however Samuel is very suspicious of his excessive use of power and has not restored his former status. He was spared from being thrown out of the ministry because his wife Juanita is a member (as Carlos) of the group of “unconditionals”, hence her knowledge of the unmoral private practices of Samuel Joaquín.
Samuel knows very well the temper and sagacity of this cunning ex-hippie. Therefore, he maintain his distance and respect for him.
Here is the link to Carlos speeches:
http://www.justin.tv/lldmstreams/b/258528939
May 18th, 2010 at 9:07 pm
The majority of LLDM members have been told over and over that one proof that Samuel is an authentic apostle of God is because of the “amazing” growth rate. They have repeated this fallacy so many times, that even who created the lie believes in it!
When LLDM was a small, segregated protestant religious group in Mexico, Samuel used to say that it was because ” The way to perdition is wide and many people follows it, and the good way to heaven was so narrow, that just a few could find it” as the Bible says.
If we follow this assertion, we find that LLDM as become a freeway to perdition, because “5 milllions” have found it! And many more will follow. Although the INEGI (Mexican Census Office) has found that there are no more than 75,000 members of LLDM in all Mexico (Who are the liars?).
When LLDM was a small group, formed mainly by non-educated and generally blue collar people, Samuel used to boast that “It was because God came to the poor and ignorant, not to the rich and educated”. Now even Samuel is looking for the riches and the “glory of this world” with his “Dr. Honoris Causa” bought for $300.00 USD.
I HAVE A QUESTION TO THE MEMBERS OF LLDM: WHAT HAPPENED?
May 18th, 2010 at 2:54 pm
Señor Ramirez,
Si usted es quien pienso que es, muy bien venido a este lugar!! Jamás me imagine que alguien como usted, de hace tantos años ponga algo en este sitio. Todavía no lo puedo creer! Se acuerda de mi papá, Arturo? El trabajo con usted en Tepic, Nayarit, le manda saludos. Muchas gracias por lo que puso en este blog y espero me responda el email que le mande.
Mi papá me dijo hace tiempo de que usted fue amigo de Samuel, incluso hace poco hasta puse su nombre en un “post” que puse, diciendo que no le hemos mentido a nadie sobre lo que hemos dicho sobre esta iglesia. Usted todavía vive en Los Angeles? Espero podamos estar en contacto y que nos pueda contar mas de Samuel. Le mandamos saludos, y gracias de nuevo!!
May 18th, 2010 at 2:53 pm
It is so sad
so sad that the members of LLDM are like Muslims. Can we really convince a mu-slum to believe that Jesus is our savior? Mu slums believe that he is just a prophet not a holy God or son of God. Mu slums are not allowed to believe in anything but their fake prophet Mohamed and completely reject the truth of the coming Christ. They can be killed if they believe in Christ.
May 18th, 2010 at 2:31 pm
Jeziel, I’m sorry, but your stupidity is beyond belief.
That’s not refuting anything, you are again playing “that’s lies”, not refuting with evidence otherwise. Of course your pastors are going go tell you they are lies, but they are very much real and whoever tells you otherwise is a damn liar. Everything I posted is the truth, I may be many things but I’m not a liar, and I don’t “believe” what I said, I KNOW it for a fact. Like Colin said, get the LLDM people from here in Houston straight, you saw the link to their website. Listen, you can choose to be the idiot who believes Samuel is on equal terms with Jesus, be my guest. Or, you can choose to do the smart thing and think for yourself and research if your Samuel is really what you claim he is. Just because you weren’t there doesn’t mean things didn’t happen. Samuel is a fake, you can cry in anguish as much as you want and call us liars as much as you want, but guess what? At the end of the day, all I have said is true and Samuel will still be a fake. I’m sorry, Jeziel, but that is the truth. If you cannot accept that, that is a personal problem.
May 18th, 2010 at 12:40 pm
Espero este escrito le llegue a mi viejo amigo, Samuel Joaquin Flores
Te acuerdas d mi Samuel? Soy tu amigo de infansia, Otoniel Ramirez. Mis seres queridos me dijeron de esta página y te quería mandar saludos. Si te acuerdas de cuando éramos jóvenes?de aquellos tiempos cuando bajábamos tierra en gondula del Cerro del Cuatro? Era antes de que te creyeras el cuento que eras divino, cuando eras aquel chavo sencillo que convivías conmigo. Yo creo que si te haz de acordar. Eramos bien cuates, uno de tus pocos amigos.
Si no te acuerdas de mi, tal vez te acuerdes de mi papá, Perfecto Ramirez, un gran predicador. Te acuerdas cuando le predicaba a la gente que solo era un gusano antes la precensia de Dios? Te acuerdas Samuel? Desgraciadamente a mi padre no le empezaron a gustar las mentiras y corrupcion de la Iglesia, y por eso se salio. Mi padre era un verdadero siervo del señor y con mucha fe. Como se salió de la iglesia le empezaron a decir a la gente que el era el enemigo y tuvimos que huir a California. Te acuerdas Samuel? Y mi pobre hermana Leticia fue a los medios de comunicación y la ley a denunciarlos pero ustedes pagaban buen dinero para que el caso no avanzara, tachando de loca a mi hermana.
Claro que te acuerdas de mi, Samuel. Uff, ahora eres el apóstol divino! A quien quieres engañar? Yo te conozco personalmente no como estos babosos fanáticos y Pastorcitos chafas que tienes hoy día. Tienes puras lacras que quieren dinero, Samuel. Nada que ver con los pastores de antes. Nunca has hecho ningún milagro. El único ha sido es robar a la gente y salirte con la tuya. Te conozco camarada. Apóstol? Ni tu te la crees, para mi sigues siendo aquel amigo con quien convivía y trabajaba, no tienes nada de divino, eres común y corriente. Yo guerito y tu indito. Que triste ver el hombre en cual te convertiste.
como dije,
esta gente tonta que cree en ti y tus nuevos pastorcitos mensos no saben nada de ti, apoco también vas a negar que me conoces? Sudábamos juntos en aquel cerro, trabajando contigo aparte de la panadería. Tu iglesia arruino a mi familia, gente buena que si amaban a Jesucristo, y arruino nuestra gran amistad. Espero llegue este mensaje a ti. Que años aquellos verdad Samuel?
Atte:
Otoniel “El motor” Ramirez
May 18th, 2010 at 11:53 am
Gosh, Old Frank
You can do better than that! I think you mean that Chema Valencia was Arturo’s step-father, I’m very much my father’s blood son. Again, check your sources and connect your brain with your fingers to type the truth. Your posts continue to get more and more empty, conjuring up conjectures that are really out of scope.
Everything I posted that people think are lies we came up with are 100% unadulterated truths. Just because I wasn’t there for some of them, doesn’t mean they didn’t happen, old sport. So, since I wasn’t around when Hitler tried to take over the world, it didn’t happen? That’s ludicrous! Even my dad, who was there, you are trying to write off as if what he witnessed did not happen! Where were you? My father was there. Where were you? He doesn’t hate the church, in fact, he doesn’t even know about the content of this website. My father has only spoken good things of his step dad, like when he told Aaron he refused to be a pastor because he had a family to maintain and didn’t want them to suffer, as they had done in Zacualpan. As the eldest child, he helped the rest of his siblings by working and providing. Pepito, Ruben, ALL of them should thank him, but with their fanatismo they preferred the hipocrisy of LLDM. Not that we ever needed any of them, my Dad has lived a most stable and fulfilling life than ANY of his LLDM-attending siblings. Get your facts straight, old Frank, don’t just talk because you have a mouth and type because you have hands.
I must admit, your post is funnier than Jeziel’s. If you guys had common sense, you would probably stay quiet, as everytime you post, you only end up looking more foolish in your desperation of trying to defend your false apostle. Oh, and thanks for your interest in me, I feel special that you used a satellite to see where I live. That’s the priority isn’t? Trying to know who we are and where we live. That’s cult mentality if I ever saw it.
Hey, want me post pics of the plaque at Houston’s LLDM that has “his excellency” Samuel’s name etched 5 times larger than Jesus Christ or do you prefer pics of the palace in Silver Wolf ranch? Let me know. Send my regards to Carlos Montemayor… David, Frank, whoever you are.
May 18th, 2010 at 11:39 am
To everyone reading,
LLDM will probably go on to become an even larger institution then what it is now, just like the mormons, Jehova witness, seventh day adventist and so on. LLDM members will argue by saying in spanish…si la obra no es de dios no crese..well, can you explain to me how in the world did mormons, catholics, jehova witnesses, etc..etc..grow into such large institution as they are now, much larger then LLDM?
Point being, no matter what time and century we live in, the grace, love and mercy of our Lord and God Jesus will always be around reaching out to those who seek him and those he chooses to call upon. Blessings to everyone!
May 18th, 2010 at 11:36 am
Reposted for “Old Frank”’s benefit:
From comment #1208 May 12th, 2010 at 11:06 pm:
Beloved members of LLDM, grace and peace to all of you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Please understand where I come from. SJF and LLDM are propagating something which was first claimed by Eusebio Gonzalez in 1926. Now, what he claims is not written in the Bible, but it is a claim related to what Jesus spoke in that he claims he was chosen to restore a church that was founded by the Lord Himself 2,000 years ago.
This is a concept entirely new to me, because from my prayerful study of the Bible, what I understand is that the Lord Jesus Christ Himself will be the One to restore everything. But this man says no, he will restore it. OK.
Now, I am in the position where I am faced with the task of determining if this man’s claim is true, or if he is just another Adam Smith or Charles Taze Russell. So, how am I to determine if it is true?
I wouldn’t be able to know whether or not His claim is true, unless I had a source for determining truth. As a Christian, my source for truth is the Bible. So, the easiest way to know if it’s true is to consider this – Is the Jesus who he is restoring this church for the same Jesus of the Bible? I mean someone could make a golden calf and put a “Jesus” name tag on it, but that doesn’t mean it’s the real Jesus, right? Naturally the question to ask is – who do you say Jesus is?
David, Lluvia, or anyone else, correct me if this is not the case, but according to LLDM, the answer would be this:
Jesus of LLDM:
“the Spirit of God, the Word, came down to earth and entered into the body of man named Jesus at the time of his baptism by John the Baptist. At his birth, a baby was born such as Moses. One destined to serve God, but not God in the flesh. Just a man, and this man’s name was Jesus.”
OK, now I would have to compare this myself to the Jesus of the Bible.
If the Bible is our source of truth, then we cannot lean on our own knowledge, or wisdom, or feelings about what it means to understand it. We cannot trust SJF’s interpretations of it as our source of truth.
We can only stand on the great truths as they are written in the context of the whole Bible. So, let’s compare the Jesus of the Bible, and the Jesus of LLDM.
In the book of John, there are certain things that characterize John’s Gospel, and they emphasize the content. John was the last Apostle to die, and before he departed, he wrote the final words about the Lord Jesus from a different aspect than any of the other 3 Gospels that had been written.
Matthew focused on Jesus as the Christ – the promised Messiah who fulfills all the prophecies of the Old Testament.
Mark focused on Jesus in His servanthood, perfectly submitting to the will of the Father.
Luke focused on the humanity of Jesus, how He took our human weaknesses and flaws upon Himself.
It’s highly possible, and probably very likely, that John wrote his Gospel after receiving the Revelation of Jesus Christ. As the last surviving Apostle of Jesus Christ, he knows that this will be the final eyewitness account and recorded history of the Lord Jesus’ life on this earth. Moved by the Holy Spirit, John is compelled to write about the life of Christ on earth from a different aspect altogether, and John focuses on His Deity.
John’s Gospel from beginning to end emphasizes this fact about Jesus Christ – He is God incarnate. God manifest in the flesh. He is absolutely and totally God in human flesh – fully God, and fully man.
In chapter 1, Jesus is called the Word (Greek “logos”). That is not explained by Greek philosophy, but by the Hebrew tetragram “YHWH” (”Jehovah,” many people say). He is Jehovah. Now, John begins his Gospel with this statement:
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.”(John 1:1-3)
There are actually 4 great, earth-shaking statements made here in the first 3 verses.
1 – “In the beginning was the Word,” And here, the Word is the Lord Jesus Christ. And the “beginning” mentioned here is the same “beginning” that is mentioned in Genesis. It goes back to the creation of the physical universe, which no one can accurately date. We just don’t honestly know how long the universe has been here, and everything science will tell you about the age of the universe – it’s just some man’s hypothesis. My thought is this on that – give it enough time, and science will catch up to the Bible. But we don’t know how long the universe has been here.
After all, we have a God of eternity. What do you thing He’s been doing in the past? Waiting for you and me and SJF to come around? He hasn’t been waiting around for us.
As far as exactly when in the past this universe started, we don’t know, but it’s been here a long time. All we know about the beginning is what is written in the totality of the Bible, and that includes this – “In the beginning was the Word,” Now, the interesting thing here about the beginning that’s mentioned – it’s already past tense. Continued action is the imperfect form that’s used here – “In the beginning WAS the Word.” So, whenever you want to say the universe began is not important. Wherever you date the beginning of the universe – that’s where the Lord Jesus comes out to meet you and He is already past tense. “In the beginning WAS the Word,” so this is a beginning that is not a beginning at all. It’s a beginning that you and I can go to and play the guessing game called “when?” – but whenever our guess falls – the Lord Jesus Christ is already past tense. He’s the Ancient of Days and His hair is as white as snow.
“In the beginning WAS the Word.” To determine the exact meaning of this is not really that easy. Obviously, The Lord Jesus Christ is not the “logos” of Greek philosophy. But rather He is the “memra” of Hebrew Scriptures – the Word of God. This is the One who is the Word. And gathering up everything that was said about Him in the Old Testament – He is now presented as the One in the beginning. This beginning pre-dates the very first words in the Bible. We’re dealing with a God of eternity so when we read “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth”(Genesis 1:1) – “the beginning” that’s mentioned is the beginning of our physical universe. It is not God’s beginning. He was already there before that, and that is exactly the same way it’s used in John 1 – “In the beginning was the Word.” Not “is” the Word, it WAS in the beginning. “Was” is a durative imperfect, and the meaning is it’s continued action. It means that the Word WAS in the beginning. What beginning? When? Well, just as far back as you wanna go – the Bible says “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.” Did that begin God? No. Before creation – He already WAS.
He comes out of eternity to meet us. He did not begin, “in the beginning WAS the Word.” He was already there when the beginning was, He’s already past tense! “In the beginning WAS the Word,” – just 5 words, but very profound. And there is not a man on the topside of this earth who can put a date on it or even really fathom it at all. This 1st tremendous statement starts us off way out in space, you see?
The 2nd statement is this: “and the Word was with God,” – This makes it abundantly clear that He is distinct from God the Father. We cannot identify Jesus as God the Father, because He was WITH God.
Now right here, our human understanding would tell us “well, if He’s with God, then He is not God.” But John was guided by the Holy Spirit,
and the 3rd statement he makes immediately set us straight on that:
“and the Word was God.” This is a clear and emphatic declaration that the Lord Jesus Christ is God. In fact, in the original Greek language this was written in it’s even moore specific than this. In the Greek, the important word is placed at the beginning of the sentence, and translated literally it reads “God was the Word.” And my friend that is emphatic, you can’t get any more emphatic than that.
You wanna get rid of the Deity of Jesus Christ? My friend you cannot get rid of it – the first 3 statements in the Gospel of John tie the thing down. “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”
Now will you notice:
“The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.”(John 1:2-3)
He’s the Creator also. “All things were made by Him” – Jesus is the creator. Now John continues:
“In him was life; and the life was the light of men.”(John 1:4)
Now In Him was life! That doesn’t mean He was alive, although that’s true, but there was LIFE in Him! You see, men need life because they are dead in trespasses and sin. Paul said “As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins,”(Ephesians 2:1). You see, what men need today is life.
“In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.”(John 1:4-5).
Jesus is light! And now notice, Jesus is now contrasted with John the Baptist:
“There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.(John 1:6) – This is John the Baptist. John the Baptist bore witness to the light, but he was not the light he just bore witness to the light.
“The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.”(John 1:7-8)
Now notice what Apostle John says next:
“That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.”(John 1:9)
This is also a tremendous statement. You see, light comes through the Word of God. Without the Word of God, there is no light. When you come to read the Bible – you are in the light! What light? The light of the Word of God:
“That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.”
“every man that cometh into the world” – that is, any man who comes into the light, just like the sun. It lights every man that comes into the sunlight. Those way down in the caves of the earth, it doesn’t light them, they have to come to the light.
Now it says:
“He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.”(John 1:10)
That is the tragedy of the world. The creator came down to this earth, and He took upon Himself our humanity. And yet, the world didn’t know Him. The world rejects Him to this very day because everybody wants to create their own version of Jesus and slap a “Jesus” name tag on it. The Jesus of the Bible tragically came into the very world that was created through Him, and the world did not recognize Him.
“He came unto his own, and his own received him not.”(John 1:11)
A lot of people consider “his own” here to mean his own race – the Nation Israel, and that thought carries them to the idea of replacement theology (that the church is to replace Israel in God’s plan). But in the context of chapter 1, it can be expanded out. This is His world, because as John mentioned previously He created it. He came into His own world and His own world did not recognize or receive Him. It’s a universal rejection. But notice:
“But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:”(John 1:12)
Life therefore is received by the new birth. John says “even to them that believe on His name,” so it comes by faith.
“Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.”(John 1:13)
The life that is received by the New Birth comes by faith in Christ. By faith in Christ, we are born “not of blood,” that is natural generation. And it’s not “of the will of the flesh,” which means you don’t become a child of God by your own self effort – something you do, your good works. “nor of the will of man,” – that’s education and training. You don’t become a child of God by training, you become a child of God by being born again. Because it says “”Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.” – it’s the direct action of the Holy Spirit.
Now, in the first 3 verses we had 4 remarkable statements about Christ. In verse 14, there are 3 more remarkable statements.
“And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.”(John 1:14)
“The Word was made flesh,” – I want you to look at that for just a moment. A great philosopher might go for verse 1, but would not accept this because they could never accept the fact that “the Word was made flesh.” The Greek language here also allows us to see this more specifically. The Literal Greek reads “The Word was born flesh.”
Now turn this over in your mind for a moment. Here comes God out of eternity. He’s already the Ancient of Days. But He also came to Bethlehem.
“They were looking for a king to lift them high, He came a little baby thing that made a woman cry” – George McDonough.
Notice that John’s Gospel does not even mention His birth in Bethlehem or His childhood. Why? John’s talking about One who is too big for Bethlehem. He comes out of eternity, and He takes upon Himself our humanity. “The Word was made flesh” (Lit. Greek: “The Word was born flesh”). This is the only Christmas story that’s contained in John’s Gospel, it’s very important to see that. He was born flesh, and the only way it could take place was by the virgin birth, see? The writer to the Hebrews says “For surely it is not angels he helps, but Abraham’s descendants.”(Hebrews 2:16).
He took part of flesh and blood, so that through death, He could destroy the One who has the power of death – that is, the devil.
Christ’s birth is similar to the new birth of believers which John mentioned in verse 13. He was born “not of blood,” He was not born in a human way, or by human effort “the will of the flesh,” nor by the will of man – but He was born of God. “The Word was made flesh” What a statement! “The Word was made flesh” – That is the Christmas story, He was born flesh.
“For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.”(Isaiah 9:6)
A little child was born in Bethlehem, but the Son came out of eternity “The Word was born flesh,”
The 2nd statement is: “and dwelt among us.” The Word dwelt among us! The word for ‘dwelt’ here is the Greek word “skineo” which means to pitch a tent. Our human bodies here are just little tents in which we live. And they’re just as frail as a tent, my friend. The Apostle Paul used the same imagery as John, he says “Now we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands.”(2 Corinthians 5:1).
This body we live in is just a tabernacle – it’s a little tent, a little wind could blow it over in a night. It could be snuffed out in an instant, because you and I live in these little tents. The God of eternity came down to this earth and took upon Himself a human body. He pitched His tent here among us, and that is the 2nd tremendous statement here.
The 3rd – “(and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.” – Notice there is first a parenthetical statement (a statement like this in parenthesis). When reading, we know that a parenthetical statement is always an add on – meaning you do consider the parenthetical statement, but you don’t let it screw up the flow of the sentence. Therefore the emphasis is on this – He was full of grace and truth! His glory is emphasized, but the parenthesis – the part John considers less critical to the information presented is that he was there when it happened. John understands that He needs Christ, Christ does not need Him. John merely had the privilege of beholding His glory firsthand. “The glory as of the only begotten of the Father” – remember that Paul made it clear He was “begotten” when the Father raised Him from the dead. He is the only One that has been raised by the Father immortal – never to die again. And He was FULL of grace and truth.
Again, by now our human reasoning would have kicked in and said “well, if He was born flesh He sure limited Himself.” Guided by the Holy Spirit, John sets us straight on that – he says wait a minute! He was FULL of grace and truth. The word ‘full’ means that you just cannot possibly have any more. He brought all the Deity with Him – He was FULL of grace and truth when He came down here. And John the Baptist now bears witness of Him:
“John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.
And of his fullness have all we received, and grace for grace.”(John 1:15-16) – It’s out of the fullness of Christ, the ‘pluroma’ of Christ.
A few of the disciples of SJF have made the claim that “the Word” in verse 1 is not a reference to Jesus Christ. Up to this point, John has been a little mysterious with his writing. So to clear the thing up and show that The Lord Jesus Christ is the Word of which He is speaking, He nails that down right here:
“For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.”(John 1:17)
Jesus Christ. This is the One we are talking about. He came out of eternity, and took upon Himself our humanity without surrendering any of the substance of His Deity because He was full of grace and truth.
Now, I want to just jump back for a moment:
“John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.”(John 1:15)
John the Apostle tells us what John the Baptist said about Jesus Christ. In plain english, He said “He’s the One I was telling you about. He comes after me but He’s preferred before me, because He WAS before me.” In Luke’s Gospel we learn that John the Baptist was born 6 months before Jesus, so how can he have been before? John is witnessing to what the Apostle John started His gospel with – Jesus pre-existed, He was past tense whenever the universe began. 2,000 years ago, He stepped out of eternity and came down to this earth and took upon Himself our humanity.
Amen.
So, if I am using the Bible as the source for truth, then there’s only one conclusion I can draw. The description of Jesus from LLDM and the description of Jesus in the Bible are not the same. So it must not have been the same Jesus who told Aaron to restore the church, probably a demon spirit with a “Jesus” name tag on.
The Jesus of the Bible – the Christ, will restore all things Himself.
May 18th, 2010 at 11:28 am
“Old Frank”,
Read post #1208. If you read that whole comment, it should be pretty clear to you who Jesus is according to the Bible, and that I do not confuse Jesus with God the Father.
Now, Frank – can you answer a question when you are asked one, or will you continue to avoid it? The most recent question I have asked you which you have not answered is this:
What is our source for truth? Is it one man’s thoughts/feelings of (or one group’s interpretation of) what the Bible means, or is it what the Bible itself actually says?
Please answer this question, Frank. How can we have any discussions with you if you will not answer our questions to establish – what is our guide for determining what is and is not true? Is it the Bible itself? Or SJF’s interpretations of the Bible?
Jeziel asked the question of where the Bible says the prerequisites for being an Apostle?
Let’s look at the Bible and what qualifications/prerequisites the Bible gives for an authentic apostle of Jesus Christ.
Qualification #1 – The Witness of an Apostle.
Let me start by saying that the Bible makes it very clear that Apostles of Jesus Christ had to bear eye witness to the fact that Jesus had risen from the dead. To do this, they had to have seen him after he was resurrected. As Peter wrote “We did not follow cleverly invented stories when we told you about the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty.” (2 Peter 1:16).
The story of Aaron’s “calling” – eyewitness account, or cleverly invented story?
Christ told His apostles that they were to be His witnesses to testify as to what they had seen with their own eyes – “He told them, “This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. You are witnesses of these things.” (Luke 24:46-48).
When presenting candidates to replace Judas Iscariot, the one chosen had to be an eyewitness – “Therefore it is necessary to choose one of the men who have been with us the whole time the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, beginning from John’s baptism to the time when Jesus was taken up from us. For one of these must become a witness with us of his resurrection.” (Acts 1:21-22).
Jesus told the apostles “But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.” (Acts 1:8). And so they did “With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and much grace was upon them all.” (Acts 4:33).
Paul is unique in that He is the only Biblical apostle to have been witness to the fact that Jesus had risen and was alive after He had already ascended into Heaven.
“As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?”
“Who are you, Lord?” Saul asked.
“I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,” he replied. “Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.”
The men traveling with Saul stood there speechless; they heard the sound but did not see anyone. Saul got up from the ground, but when he opened his eyes he could see nothing. So they led him by the hand into Damascus.(Acts 9:3-8).
It states here that the men with Paul heard the sound, but did not see anyone. When later recounting this story, Paul says that the men with him saw the light, but did not understand the voice of the one who was speaking to him (Acts 22:6-9). Is Paul contradicting himself here? Absolutely not.
Paul saw someone in the brilliant flash of light and heard an audible voice speaking to him. The one he saw was Jesus, and He spoke with Jesus, and was given specific instructions from Him.
If you examine the words used in these chapters closely, it’s clear that the men with Paul did see a flash of light, but did not see anyone. And they did hear a sound, but could not understand as they would an audible voice.
Paul was blinded, and the men with him were not effected at all – although no one present would be able to deny that something supernatural had occured. I’ve always taken Paul’s subsequent blindness after this event to be both literal and metaphorical. Paul had seen Jesus after He had already ascended into Heaven, that is why he was blinded literally, because no one (with the possible exceptions of Moses, Enoch and a few others) had seen the full glory of God while in their earthly bodies. Now, metaphorically I take the fact that Paul came away blinded to signify that anyone who does not see the value in accepting Jesus as the Lord and the only path to Salvation (as was the case with Saul of Tarsis), is blind spiritually. It’s also very significant to note that the men who were with Paul could see and hear that something was happening, even though they did not understand what it was.
Most recounts of the story of Eusebio, AKA Aaron’s calling, state that he was in bed with his wife when he had his “vision” and heard the sound of God’s voice. However, most would agree that his wife did not see anything nor hear anything herself, but the “apostle” was able to convince her that it had indeed happened. Seem fishy?
But, moving on…Paul, in defending his apostleship, appealed to the fact that He had seen Jesus with his own eyes – “Am I not free? Am I not an apostle? Have I not seen Jesus our Lord? Are you not the result of my work in the Lord? Even though I may not be an apostle to others, surely I am to you! For you are the seal of my apostleship in the Lord.” (1 Corinthians 9:1-2).
To test anyone who claims to be an apostle today, you don’t have to look any further than the gospel they teach, and whether it matches exactly to the gospel preached by the Biblical Apostles. In that same 1st epistle to the Church in Corinth, Paul lays out the true gospel which was preached by all the Biblical Apostles:
“Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve. After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.
For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me was not without effect. No, I worked harder than all of them—yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me. Whether, then, it was I or they, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed.” (1 Corinthians 15:1-11)
By this gospel we are saved. This has been the true gospel of Jesus Christ for almost 2,000 years. If we do not hold firmly to this gospel, our belief is in vain.
Now, since I am discussing the witness of an apostle, I would like to point out verse 8 – “and LAST of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born”. Paul was the last person whom Jesus appeared to and designated as an apostle. This translation is from the NIV, but in the NKJV, this verse reads as: “Then last of all He was seen by me also, as by one born out of due time.”
Again, last of all, he was seen by Paul, and Paul’s apostleship was “born out of due time.” If Paul’s apostleship was “born out of due time” in first century AD, then 1926 I dare say was almost 2 milleniums too late.
I do not question the sovereignty of God, and if God wishes to raise up new apostles in this day and age, then of course he can. But, he would not alter the gospel, nor would he leave us in the dark without a way to test the claims of men who claim to be apostles
“I know your deeds, your hard work and your perseverance. I know that you cannot tolerate wicked men, that you have tested those who claim to be apostles but are not, and have found them false.”(Revelation 2:2).
Qualification #2 – signs.
The eyewitness testimony of the New Testament Apostles was confirmed through the Holy Spirit in the form of signs, wonders, and miracles.
“The things that mark an apostle—signs, wonders and miracles—were done among you with great perseverance.” (2 Corinthians 12:12).
“I will not venture to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me in leading the Gentiles to obey God by what I have said and done— by the power of signs and miracles, through the power of the Spirit. So from Jerusalem all the way around to Illyricum, I have fully proclaimed the gospel of Christ.” (Romans 15:18-19)
“how shall we escape if we ignore such a great salvation? This salvation, which was first announced by the Lord, was confirmed to us by those who heard him. God also testified to it by signs, wonders and various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will.” (Hebrews 2:3-4).
Jesus gave the apostles the ability to heal the sick, raise the dead, drive out demons and perform other miraculous signs. “He called his twelve disciples to him and gave them authority to drive out evil spirits and to heal every disease and sickness.” (Matthew 10:1).
Paul refers to his ability to perform signs, wonders, and miracles as the things that mark an apostle (2 Cor. 12:12). But it was not only Paul, but also the 12 Apostles who by the grace of God had this ability –
“Then the disciples went out and preached everywhere, and the Lord worked with them and confirmed his word by the signs that accompanied it.” (Mark 16:20)
“Everyone was filled with awe, and many wonders and miraculous signs were done by the apostles.” (Acts 2:43)
“The apostles performed many miraculous signs and wonders among the people. And all the believers used to meet together in Solomon’s Colonnade.” (Acts 5:12).
“One day Peter and John were going up to the temple at the time of prayer—at three in the afternoon. Now a man crippled from birth was being carried to the temple gate called Beautiful, where he was put every day to beg from those going into the temple courts. When he saw Peter and John about to enter, he asked them for money. Peter looked straight at him, as did John. Then Peter said, “Look at us!” So the man gave them his attention, expecting to get something from them.
Then Peter said, “Silver or gold I do not have, but what I have I give you. In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, walk.” Taking him by the right hand, he helped him up, and instantly the man’s feet and ankles became strong. He jumped to his feet and began to walk. Then he went with them into the temple courts, walking and jumping, and praising God. When all the people saw him walking and praising God, they recognized him as the same man who used to sit begging at the temple gate called Beautiful, and they were filled with wonder and amazement at what had happened to him.
While the beggar held on to Peter and John, all the people were astonished and came running to them in the place called Solomon’s Colonnade. When Peter saw this, he said to them: “Men of Israel, why does this surprise you? Why do you stare at us as if by our own power or godliness we had made this man walk? The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus. You handed him over to be killed, and you disowned him before Pilate, though he had decided to let him go. You disowned the Holy and Righteous One and asked that a murderer be released to you. You killed the author of life, but God raised him from the dead. We are witnesses of this. By faith in the name of Jesus, this man whom you see and know was made strong. It is Jesus’ name and the faith that comes through him that has given this complete healing to him, as you can all see.” (Acts 3:1-16)
I have brought this point up in discussions with several members and pastors of LLDM, and the majority say they have heard of Samuel Joaquin working miracles (although they refuse to give details of such tales), but have not seen it with their own eyes. But the miracle working power of the Biblical Apostles was indeniable, and done out in the open for all to see. They had nothing to hide. “But since they could see the man who had been healed standing there with them, there was nothing they could say. So they ordered them to withdraw from the Sanhedrin and then conferred together. “What are we going to do with these men?” they asked. “Everybody living in Jerusalem knows they have done an outstanding miracle, and we cannot deny it.” (Acts 4:14-16).
The Bible also adamantly warns that in latter times, false (counterfeit) miracles will be performed by satan in an effort to deceive those who reject the truth of the Bible.
“The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.” (2 Thessalonians 2:9-10).
Now, I do believe the old saying that miracles happen every day. They most certainly do – in answer to our prayers, but no longer by the hands of miracle workers (in a spiritual sense: there is healing, but no healers).
The testimony of the Biblical Apostles (New Testament) was confirmed in signs, which shows that it is inspired of God. It sufficiently upholds the message that Jesus is God’s Messiah, He is the Christ, the Son of the Living God, and that this Jesus, God has raised up from the dead.
“God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all witnesses of the fact.” (Acts 2:32)
“When I came to you, brothers, I did not come with eloquence or superior wisdom as I proclaimed to you the testimony about God. For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. I came to you in weakness and fear, and with much trembling. My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit’s power, so that your faith might not rest on men’s wisdom, but on God’s power.” (1 Corinthians 2:1-5)
“I want you to know, brothers, that the gospel I preached is not something that man made up. I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.” (Galatians 1:11-12).
No additional apostles are needed to testify that Jesus was crucified, buried, and raised from the dead on the 3rd day according to the Scriptures. Instead of “modern apostles” we are to rely on the Holy Bible, which is God’s living word (Hebrews 4:12).
You want me to believe in Samuel’s apostleship? I will need to see him defy the laws of physics. He will need to do something that human beings just simply cannot do. I don’t care if it’s a card trick – show me something.
Qualification #3 – The Foundational role of Apostles:
Let me start by pointing out that The Apostle Paul, before he was called to be an apostle, had only one occupation and it was as a tentmaker. Therefore, it can be concluded that he understood something about construction, and that is why he used some metaphors comparing the church to a building.
I have worked in my younger days as a carpenter’s assistant and I learned a lot about construction. A “chief cornerstone” is laid along with the foundation, and it’s function is to align the the foundation properly, ensuring the foundation will be solid and allowing for construction on top of it.
Although it is called a chief cornerstone, it technically is still a part of the foundation, and in fact is the MOST important part of the foundation.
In understanding this, it’s quite clear that Paul’s writings never contradict themselves. Now, hundreds of years before Jesus came to the earth, the Sovereign Lord spoke through the prophet Isaiah, foretelling the laying down of the foundation of the emerging church:
“So this is what the Sovereign LORD says:
“See, I lay a stone in Zion,
a tested stone,
a precious cornerstone for a sure foundation;
the one who trusts will never be dismayed.” (Isaiah 28:16).
All the Old Testament Prophets, and Isaiah especially spoke of the redemption of mankind coming through a Son who was to be born to us, and the New Testament makes it clear that the Son is Jesus – who is the Christ.
The prophets are a part of the foundation as well because they foretold Jesus’ coming, and yes even the apostles, centuries before they arrived. Now, looking at this passage from Ephesians:
“Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” (that done in the body by the hands of men)— remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.
For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace, and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.
Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God’s people and members of God’s household, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.” (Ephesians 2:11-22)
There are two majorly important things that stand out in this passage. The first – verse 14, which makes it clear that the barrier that divided Jews and Gentiles was broken down by Jesus Christ, and both were united in Him.
La Luz Del Mundo claims that only members of their church will be certain to receive Salvation from God as they are following their “apostle” Samuel Joaquin, and those who are not members (who they refer to as Gentiles), well that will just be up to God’s Judgement.
This is heretical and divisive and contradicts this passage, which speaks about unity (for all people) through Jesus Christ – NOT through any apostle. The other is of course Ephesians 2:20, which states that God’s household is built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Jesus Christ as the chief cornerstone.
As I have also learned working construction, a foundation is laid down one time in the beginning, and it is never done again.
The apostles served as the foundation of the emerging church by teaching about Christ Jesus, and by making the New Testament available in written form. In addition to the gospels of Jesus Christ, the New Testament includes the epistles (letters of instruction), for how to carry on in the faith after the apostles had passed.
Surely, no one would want to take anything Samuel Joaquin writes and add it to the New Testament. And well, if you would, then I would advise that you please read Revelation 22:18-19.
To summarize, we know that the foundation of our faith, which was laid in the first century AD, was a sure foundation (Isaiah 28:16), because Jesus Christ was the chief cornerstone. We know that the apostles comprised a part of this foundation, along with the prophets. We know that once a foundation has been laid, it can never be laid again.
As I have asked before, if we are to believe that Samuel Joaquin is a living apostle today, then we should conclude that he is laying a foundation, so should we expect another Lamb of God to ensure it is a solid foundation? Absolutely not!
1 Corinthians sums it up very well: “Brothers, I could not address you as spiritual but as worldly—mere infants in Christ. I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready. You are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not worldly? Are you not acting like mere men? For when one says, “I follow Paul,” and another, “I follow Apollos,” are you not mere men?
What, after all, is Apollos? And what is Paul? Only servants, through whom you came to believe—as the Lord has assigned to each his task. I planted the seed, Apollos watered it, but God made it grow. So neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God, who makes things grow. The man who plants and the man who waters have one purpose, and each will be rewarded according to his own labor. For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building.
By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as an expert builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should be careful how he builds. For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.” (1 Corinthians 3:1-11).
Verse 7 – ONLY God is anything. And verse 11 – NO other foundation can be laid, then the one which already has been.
LLDM teaches people that they must “earn” their salvation through good works.
Yet the Bible does not say that Salvation can be earned – it is a free gift from God, which once received by faith will produce good works.
Paul writes that we are saved by GRACE, we are not saved by works, so therefore no one can boast. It would be impossible for anyone to save ourselves by doing good works, because all human beings are sinful creatures. Even on your best day, you still messed up. We have righteousness through our faith in Jesus Christ alone. “He came to pay a debt He did not owe, because we owed a debt we could not pay.”
Qualification #4 – the election of an apostle – that is they had to be chosen specifically by Christ.
We all know the original 12 were hand-picked by Jesus Christ Himself. “When morning came, he called his disciples to him and chose twelve of them, whom he also designated apostles: Simon (whom he named Peter), his brother Andrew, James, John, Philip, Bartholomew, Matthew, Thomas, James son of Alphaeus, Simon who was called the Zealot, Judas son of James, and Judas Iscariot, who became a traitor. (Luke 6:13-16).
“With the reward he got for his wickedness, Judas bought a field; there he fell headlong, his body burst open and all his intestines spilled out. (Acts 1:18).
The remaining 11 apostles were left to choose who would take Judas’ place among the apostles. But the thing is, Jesus made that decision too.
“Then they prayed, “Lord, you know everyone’s heart. Show us which of these two you have chosen to take over this apostolic ministry, which Judas left to go where he belongs.” Then they cast lots, and the lot fell to Matthias; so he was added to the eleven apostles.” (Acts 1:24-26).
I have asked pastors of La Luz Del Mundo about this, and their reasoning was that since Jesus was not there in person to choose Matthias, it was not a direct decision from Jesus. However, the fact that they “Cast Lots” indicates that it was not a personal decision by any of the men, but was directly from God the Son. The main obvious reason for casting lots was the impartiality of a certain decision. No one could argue that the decision was the result of politics, nepotism, favoritism, etc. It basically was the same as the casting of dice of today.
Next, Jesus Christ personally appeared to Saul of Tarsis to make him his “chosen vessel” to deliver the message of the gospel to the Gentiles –
“As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?”
“Who are you, Lord?” Saul asked.
“I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,” he replied. “Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.”
The men traveling with Saul stood there speechless; they heard the sound but did not see anyone. Saul got up from the ground, but when he opened his eyes he could see nothing. So they led him by the hand into Damascus. For three days he was blind, and did not eat or drink anything.
In Damascus there was a disciple named Ananias. The Lord called to him in a vision, “Ananias!”
“Yes, Lord,” he answered.
The Lord told him, “Go to the house of Judas on Straight Street and ask for a man from Tarsus named Saul, for he is praying. In a vision he has seen a man named Ananias come and place his hands on him to restore his sight.”
“Lord,” Ananias answered, “I have heard many reports about this man and all the harm he has done to your saints in Jerusalem. And he has come here with authority from the chief priests to arrest all who call on your name.”
But the Lord said to Ananias, “Go! This man is my chosen instrument to carry my name before the Gentiles and their kings and before the people of Israel. I will show him how much he must suffer for my name.” (Acts 9:3-16)
Paul even refers to himself as – “Paul, an apostle—sent not from men nor by man, but by Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead” (Galatians 1:1)
Jesus appeared to Paul for the purpose of personally designating him as an apostle –
“‘Now get up and stand on your feet. I have appeared to you to appoint you as a servant and as a witness of what you have seen of me and what I will show you” (Acts 26:16).
In hearing the story of Aaron’s calling (depending on who’s version you hear), most people do not say he saw Jesus Christ appear to him personally. One pastor even tried to reason with me that “hearing His voice is the same as seeing him.” To which I would reply “Did hearing Him cause him to go blind for 3 days like Paul?”
Apostles of Jesus Christ were thoroughly familiar with Him, they were with him throughout His personal ministry on earth (Acts 1:21-22).
They heard Him teach, they saw His works, and they touched Him. And they declared everything in the New Testament to us so that we may have life and fellowship with our God –
“That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ.” (1 John 1:1-3)
Jesus affirmed these things when promising the gift of the Holy Spirit – “And you also must testify, for you have been with me from the beginning.” (John 15:27)
The Holy Spirit empowered the Biblical apostles with full rememberance of everything Jesus taught, and directed them in what to say and write – (John 14:26, Matthew 10:19-20, 1 Corinthians 2:6-13, Ephesians 3:3-7).
As a result of this, we have complete confidence in the apostles’ testimonies concerning the life and teachings of Jesus. By their message, we are brought to faith only in Christ and eternal life in Him. –
“Jesus did many other miraculous signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book. But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.” (John 20:30-31),
“We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ. We write this to make our joy complete.” (1 John 1:3-4).
Qualification #5 – The test of the Gospel.
If SJF were a true apostle, he would be preaching the exact same gospel preached by the Biblical Apostles. For it is written –
“But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!”(Galatians 1:8-9)
There are several warnings in the Bible about accepting a different gospel from the one in the Bible. This is all important. Let’s look at the gospel preached by the Biblical apostles. If it is added to, subtracted from, or changed in any way, it is not the gospel of the Bible.
“But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming:”(Romans 10:8)
OK, follow closely, because nowhere is there a clearer statement of what the Biblical Apostles proclaimed then what Paul writes here:
“That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. As the Scripture says, “Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame.” For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”(Romans 10:9-13)
There it is: “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
What’s LLDM’s version? It would be something more like this: “If you confess with your mouth that you believe Samuel Joaquin was elected as apostle, and believe in your heart that he is the only authoratative representative of Christ on earth, you will be saved.”
Pretty distorted huh?
Let’s look at another passage where Paul makes it clear:
“Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve. After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, and LAST OF ALL he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.
For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me was not without effect. No, I worked harder than all of them—yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me. Whether, then, it was I or they, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed.”(1 Corinthians 15:1-11)
Again, let’s compare this to the gospel of Samuel Joaquin, what has LLDM added to this? It would be like this: “After LAST OF ALL appearing to Paul, Christ waited another 1,893 years, then he appeared again to Aaron, and 34 years after that he appeared also to Samuel and gave them divine revelations to pass on to us. These revelations include new regulations for how people should be baptized, dress, live, and believe. You must believe in the election of these “modern day apostles” if you wish to have any hope of salvation through Jesus Christ.”
Once again, pretty distorted huh?
It is clearly not identical to the Gospel preached by the Biblical Apostles. In preaching this, the leaders of LLDM, and “apostle” Samuel especially, are bringing condemnation on themselves. And that isn’t me who says this, it’s the Word of God:
“But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!”(Galatians 1:8-9)
That’s the most important test of an apostle. And in failing this, Samuel now completely fails the test of apostles based on how the Bible defines Apostles. Let’s look:
Eyewitness to Christ 0/1; Elected by Christ, 0/2; Signs, wonders and miracles, 0/3; Foundational role in Christianity 0/4; preaching of the true gospel, 0/5.
About Samuel, I confidently say this, but once again it is not me who says it, but the Word of God:
“For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.”(2 Corinthians 11:13-15)
LLDM Members will advise:
“Forget what other people say just listen to your heart.”
This is horrible advice. Do you not know that the most wicked thing is the heart of a man? Because it so easily lies and is so quick to believe lies that sound like the truth.
(Jeremiah 17:9) – The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?
(Ecclesiastes 9:3) – This is the evil in everything that happens under the sun: The same destiny overtakes all. The hearts of men, moreover, are full of evil and there is madness in their hearts while they live, and afterward they join the dead.
(Matthew 15:19) – For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander.
The point that I am making here is that no human can rely only on their heart to decide rather something or someone is the truth. This is why the Apostle Paul praised the Bereans.
(Acts 17:11) – Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.
And the Apostle John commands us to test very spirit against the Scriptures to test whether the spirit is from God or from the Antichrist.
(1 John 4:1) – 1Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
May 18th, 2010 at 11:17 am
Colin,
I am glad this is finally sinking in with you, ONE GOD, and one mediator Jesus Christ, exactly what the La Luz del Mundo has been saying all along. Did your wife finally convert you to the thruth? or you are going to come back with another reply and do some more explanation? This is hilarious when you do not have the thruth and the Holy Spirit to guide you, it get you going in circles, like a mary-go-round. Clearly Jesus is not GOD the Father, no matter what you say, it always comes back to what he really is, the Son. Even Alberto agrees with you on this one!!!
The old Frank
May 18th, 2010 at 11:16 am
LLDM defenders love to use MATHEW 10:40 to support the need of their apostle…and built their case from there on.
40… “He who receives you receives Me, and he who receives Me receives Him who sent Me. 41…. He who receives a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet’s reward. And he who receives a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man’s reward. And whoever gives one of these little ones only a cup of cold water in the name of a disciple, a42… ssuredly, I say to you, he shall by no means lose his reward.”
but they wisely avoid going into details with these other verses…
Luke 9:46-48
46 Then a dispute arose among them as to which of them would be greatest. 47 And Jesus, perceiving the thought of their heart, took a little child and set him by Him, 48 and said to them, “Whoever receives this little child in My name receives Me; and whoever receives Me receives Him who sent Me. For he who is least among you all will be great.”
LLDM will also this passage 1Corinthians 3:4-7
4.. For when one says, “I am of Paul,” and another, “I am of Apollos,” are you not carnal?
5.. Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers through whom you believed, as the Lord gave to each one? 6 I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the increase. 7 So then neither he who plants is anything, nor he who waters, but God who gives the increase.
The message in all of these passage is that it doesnt matter who exposes the word of the Lord to you, no matter how insignificant an idividual may seem, even a child.Its the lord our god reaching out, no matter who it is. As long as its done in the name of the lord.
May 18th, 2010 at 11:03 am
“Old Frank”,
You ask:
“Do you still believe that Jesus is our mediator between God and human, or you already changed your mind?”
Well, let’s see:
“For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all men—the testimony given in its proper time.”(1 Timothy 2:5-6)
Yep, the Bible still says that He is. I still believe in the Bible as the source for truth, so therefore yes, I still believe what the Bible itself actually says.
Now, Frank – can you answer a question when you are asked one, or will you continue to avoid it? The most recent question I have asked you which you have not answered is this:
What is our source for truth? Is it one man’s thoughts/feelings of (or one group’s interpretation of) what the Bible means, or is it what the Bible itself actually says?
Please answer this question, Frank.
I have asked Jeziel the same question. If this 16 year old can “think circles around us” as you claim, then he also should not have any problem answering this question: What is our source for truth? Is it one SJF’s thoughts/feelings of (or LLDM’s interpretation of) what the Bible means, or is it what the Bible itself actually says?
May 18th, 2010 at 10:45 am
Oscar,
You have no knowledge of the things you say here period. You have never ever been a member of our church; I know your very close relatives of your father, I mean really close, you are not the biological son of Arturo, he is your step-father. Arturo has always been angry about our church and that is why Jose Valencia kicked him out of his house, I know several of Arturo relatives , they have told me the whole story about him. In essence, you know nothing about our church, only from second hand and distorted stories.
I am a member and has been for many years being so closed to what goes on our church, all of what you say is hearsay, tell me one thing that you have been a witnessed, yourself? And about people spying on you that is also a blatant lie from your part, 95% of what’s been said about you is on your profile on this website, go check it out, maybe you forgot about it. The 5% left, pretty much it has been understood from your previous postings, I must say that I have used some geosynchronous information from satellites to pinpoint the exact location of places, but that have been kept to a minimum due to cost, but mainly because is very accessible at no cost. You call this spying, you got to be kidding!
Please backup what you are saying in your last posting by citing where you witnessed what you are saying, then and only then, I will give you some credibility, otherwise is just a bunch of bologna.
As to what Alberto is saying it goes along the same way with the rest, for the lack of a better argument; they go an attack people that are not here to defend themselves. It is amazing how is trying to lure a 16 year to think otherwise than what he has learned by dealing with some of our members. This is what a call real fanatism, brainwashing, as you can see this young boy can out think you many many times and now you are trying to lie to change his mind, this is low point for you Alberto.
Do you still believe that Jesus is our mediator between God and human, or you already changed your mind?
The old Frank
May 18th, 2010 at 10:41 am
Oscar
My wife is cracking up while she sits next to me. She says we finally added some humor!
May 18th, 2010 at 10:11 am
Lol!
“I’m going to tell mommy and daddy on you, Alberto!”
Gosh, Jeziel. Why is it so important to know his identity? I’m still waiting for you to refute all the “lies” I just posted. You can get help if you want.
May 18th, 2010 at 9:57 am
Jeziel,
I wont call you Jezielito no more, as you wish. Anyway, when your father gets home from work, please do make sure you ask him what his personal opinion about those two is. You are totally correct, your father does know them; so please make sure you get your fathers opinion so that you can see that im not making up lies.
BTW, make sure you ask your father about LLDM persuading the church members to support and vote for EL PRI. you were just a toddler when those events took place. Then come back and testify if I’m still lying.
May 18th, 2010 at 9:55 am
Jeziel asks:
“Tell me where Jesus states the prerequsites of an Apostle. It funny seeing the invention of a heresy of these people.”
Let’s look at the Bible and what qualifications/prerequisites the Bible gives for an authentic apostle of Jesus Christ.
Qualification #1 – The Witness of an Apostle.
Let me start by saying that the Bible makes it very clear that Apostles of Jesus Christ had to bear eye witness to the fact that Jesus had risen from the dead. To do this, they had to have seen him after he was resurrected. As Peter wrote “We did not follow cleverly invented stories when we told you about the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty.” (2 Peter 1:16).
The story of Aaron’s “calling” – eyewitness account, or cleverly invented story?
Christ told His apostles that they were to be His witnesses to testify as to what they had seen with their own eyes – “He told them, “This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. You are witnesses of these things.” (Luke 24:46-48).
When presenting candidates to replace Judas Iscariot, the one chosen had to be an eyewitness – “Therefore it is necessary to choose one of the men who have been with us the whole time the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, beginning from John’s baptism to the time when Jesus was taken up from us. For one of these must become a witness with us of his resurrection.” (Acts 1:21-22).
Jesus told the apostles “But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.” (Acts 1:8). And so they did “With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and much grace was upon them all.” (Acts 4:33).
Paul is unique in that He is the only Biblical apostle to have been witness to the fact that Jesus had risen and was alive after He had already ascended into Heaven.
“As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?”
“Who are you, Lord?” Saul asked.
“I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,” he replied. “Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.”
The men traveling with Saul stood there speechless; they heard the sound but did not see anyone. Saul got up from the ground, but when he opened his eyes he could see nothing. So they led him by the hand into Damascus.(Acts 9:3-8).
It states here that the men with Paul heard the sound, but did not see anyone. When later recounting this story, Paul says that the men with him saw the light, but did not understand the voice of the one who was speaking to him (Acts 22:6-9). Is Paul contradicting himself here? Absolutely not.
Paul saw someone in the brilliant flash of light and heard an audible voice speaking to him. The one he saw was Jesus, and He spoke with Jesus, and was given specific instructions from Him.
If you examine the words used in these chapters closely, it’s clear that the men with Paul did see a flash of light, but did not see anyone. And they did hear a sound, but could not understand as they would an audible voice.
Paul was blinded, and the men with him were not effected at all – although no one present would be able to deny that something supernatural had occured. I’ve always taken Paul’s subsequent blindness after this event to be both literal and metaphorical. Paul had seen Jesus after He had already ascended into Heaven, that is why he was blinded literally, because no one (with the possible exceptions of Moses, Enoch and a few others) had seen the full glory of God while in their earthly bodies. Now, metaphorically I take the fact that Paul came away blinded to signify that anyone who does not see the value in accepting Jesus as the Lord and the only path to Salvation (as was the case with Saul of Tarsis), is blind spiritually. It’s also very significant to note that the men who were with Paul could see and hear that something was happening, even though they did not understand what it was.
Most recounts of the story of Eusebio, AKA Aaron’s calling, state that he was in bed with his wife when he had his “vision” and heard the sound of God’s voice. However, most would agree that his wife did not see anything nor hear anything herself, but the “apostle” was able to convince her that it had indeed happened. Seem fishy?
But, moving on…Paul, in defending his apostleship, appealed to the fact that He had seen Jesus with his own eyes – “Am I not free? Am I not an apostle? Have I not seen Jesus our Lord? Are you not the result of my work in the Lord? Even though I may not be an apostle to others, surely I am to you! For you are the seal of my apostleship in the Lord.” (1 Corinthians 9:1-2).
To test anyone who claims to be an apostle today, you don’t have to look any further than the gospel they teach, and whether it matches exactly to the gospel preached by the Biblical Apostles. In that same 1st epistle to the Church in Corinth, Paul lays out the true gospel which was preached by all the Biblical Apostles:
“Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve. After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.
For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me was not without effect. No, I worked harder than all of them—yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me. Whether, then, it was I or they, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed.” (1 Corinthians 15:1-11)
By this gospel we are saved. This has been the true gospel of Jesus Christ for almost 2,000 years. If we do not hold firmly to this gospel, our belief is in vain.
Now, since I am discussing the witness of an apostle, I would like to point out verse 8 – “and LAST of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born”. Paul was the last person whom Jesus appeared to and designated as an apostle. This translation is from the NIV, but in the NKJV, this verse reads as: “Then last of all He was seen by me also, as by one born out of due time.”
Again, last of all, he was seen by Paul, and Paul’s apostleship was “born out of due time.” If Paul’s apostleship was “born out of due time” in first century AD, then 1926 I dare say was almost 2 milleniums too late.
I do not question the sovereignty of God, and if God wishes to raise up new apostles in this day and age, then of course he can. But, he would not alter the gospel, nor would he leave us in the dark without a way to test the claims of men who claim to be apostles
“I know your deeds, your hard work and your perseverance. I know that you cannot tolerate wicked men, that you have tested those who claim to be apostles but are not, and have found them false.”(Revelation 2:2).
Qualification #2 – signs.
The eyewitness testimony of the New Testament Apostles was confirmed through the Holy Spirit in the form of signs, wonders, and miracles.
“The things that mark an apostle—signs, wonders and miracles—were done among you with great perseverance.” (2 Corinthians 12:12).
“I will not venture to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me in leading the Gentiles to obey God by what I have said and done— by the power of signs and miracles, through the power of the Spirit. So from Jerusalem all the way around to Illyricum, I have fully proclaimed the gospel of Christ.” (Romans 15:18-19)
“how shall we escape if we ignore such a great salvation? This salvation, which was first announced by the Lord, was confirmed to us by those who heard him. God also testified to it by signs, wonders and various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will.” (Hebrews 2:3-4).
Jesus gave the apostles the ability to heal the sick, raise the dead, drive out demons and perform other miraculous signs. “He called his twelve disciples to him and gave them authority to drive out evil spirits and to heal every disease and sickness.” (Matthew 10:1).
Paul refers to his ability to perform signs, wonders, and miracles as the things that mark an apostle (2 Cor. 12:12). But it was not only Paul, but also the 12 Apostles who by the grace of God had this ability –
“Then the disciples went out and preached everywhere, and the Lord worked with them and confirmed his word by the signs that accompanied it.” (Mark 16:20)
“Everyone was filled with awe, and many wonders and miraculous signs were done by the apostles.” (Acts 2:43)
“The apostles performed many miraculous signs and wonders among the people. And all the believers used to meet together in Solomon’s Colonnade.” (Acts 5:12).
“One day Peter and John were going up to the temple at the time of prayer—at three in the afternoon. Now a man crippled from birth was being carried to the temple gate called Beautiful, where he was put every day to beg from those going into the temple courts. When he saw Peter and John about to enter, he asked them for money. Peter looked straight at him, as did John. Then Peter said, “Look at us!” So the man gave them his attention, expecting to get something from them.
Then Peter said, “Silver or gold I do not have, but what I have I give you. In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, walk.” Taking him by the right hand, he helped him up, and instantly the man’s feet and ankles became strong. He jumped to his feet and began to walk. Then he went with them into the temple courts, walking and jumping, and praising God. When all the people saw him walking and praising God, they recognized him as the same man who used to sit begging at the temple gate called Beautiful, and they were filled with wonder and amazement at what had happened to him.
While the beggar held on to Peter and John, all the people were astonished and came running to them in the place called Solomon’s Colonnade. When Peter saw this, he said to them: “Men of Israel, why does this surprise you? Why do you stare at us as if by our own power or godliness we had made this man walk? The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus. You handed him over to be killed, and you disowned him before Pilate, though he had decided to let him go. You disowned the Holy and Righteous One and asked that a murderer be released to you. You killed the author of life, but God raised him from the dead. We are witnesses of this. By faith in the name of Jesus, this man whom you see and know was made strong. It is Jesus’ name and the faith that comes through him that has given this complete healing to him, as you can all see.” (Acts 3:1-16)
I have brought this point up in discussions with several members and pastors of LLDM, and the majority say they have heard of Samuel Joaquin working miracles (although they refuse to give details of such tales), but have not seen it with their own eyes. But the miracle working power of the Biblical Apostles was indeniable, and done out in the open for all to see. They had nothing to hide. “But since they could see the man who had been healed standing there with them, there was nothing they could say. So they ordered them to withdraw from the Sanhedrin and then conferred together. “What are we going to do with these men?” they asked. “Everybody living in Jerusalem knows they have done an outstanding miracle, and we cannot deny it.” (Acts 4:14-16).
The Bible also adamantly warns that in latter times, false (counterfeit) miracles will be performed by satan in an effort to deceive those who reject the truth of the Bible.
“The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.” (2 Thessalonians 2:9-10).
Now, I do believe the old saying that miracles happen every day. They most certainly do – in answer to our prayers, but no longer by the hands of miracle workers (in a spiritual sense: there is healing, but no healers).
The testimony of the Biblical Apostles (New Testament) was confirmed in signs, which shows that it is inspired of God. It sufficiently upholds the message that Jesus is God’s Messiah, He is the Christ, the Son of the Living God, and that this Jesus, God has raised up from the dead.
“God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all witnesses of the fact.” (Acts 2:32)
“When I came to you, brothers, I did not come with eloquence or superior wisdom as I proclaimed to you the testimony about God. For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. I came to you in weakness and fear, and with much trembling. My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit’s power, so that your faith might not rest on men’s wisdom, but on God’s power.” (1 Corinthians 2:1-5)
“I want you to know, brothers, that the gospel I preached is not something that man made up. I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.” (Galatians 1:11-12).
No additional apostles are needed to testify that Jesus was crucified, buried, and raised from the dead on the 3rd day according to the Scriptures. Instead of “modern apostles” we are to rely on the Holy Bible, which is God’s living word (Hebrews 4:12).
You want me to believe in Samuel’s apostleship? I will need to see him defy the laws of physics. He will need to do something that human beings just simply cannot do. I don’t care if it’s a card trick – show me something.
Qualification #3 – The Foundational role of Apostles:
Let me start by pointing out that The Apostle Paul, before he was called to be an apostle, had only one occupation and it was as a tentmaker. Therefore, it can be concluded that he understood something about construction, and that is why he used some metaphors comparing the church to a building.
I have worked in my younger days as a carpenter’s assistant and I learned a lot about construction. A “chief cornerstone” is laid along with the foundation, and it’s function is to align the the foundation properly, ensuring the foundation will be solid and allowing for construction on top of it.
Although it is called a chief cornerstone, it technically is still a part of the foundation, and in fact is the MOST important part of the foundation.
In understanding this, it’s quite clear that Paul’s writings never contradict themselves. Now, hundreds of years before Jesus came to the earth, the Sovereign Lord spoke through the prophet Isaiah, foretelling the laying down of the foundation of the emerging church:
“So this is what the Sovereign LORD says:
“See, I lay a stone in Zion,
a tested stone,
a precious cornerstone for a sure foundation;
the one who trusts will never be dismayed.” (Isaiah 28:16).
All the Old Testament Prophets, and Isaiah especially spoke of the redemption of mankind coming through a Son who was to be born to us, and the New Testament makes it clear that the Son is Jesus – who is the Christ.
The prophets are a part of the foundation as well because they foretold Jesus’ coming, and yes even the apostles, centuries before they arrived. Now, looking at this passage from Ephesians:
“Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” (that done in the body by the hands of men)— remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.
For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace, and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.
Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God’s people and members of God’s household, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.” (Ephesians 2:11-22)
There are two majorly important things that stand out in this passage. The first – verse 14, which makes it clear that the barrier that divided Jews and Gentiles was broken down by Jesus Christ, and both were united in Him.
La Luz Del Mundo claims that only members of their church will be certain to receive Salvation from God as they are following their “apostle” Samuel Joaquin, and those who are not members (who they refer to as Gentiles), well that will just be up to God’s Judgement.
This is heretical and divisive and contradicts this passage, which speaks about unity (for all people) through Jesus Christ – NOT through any apostle. The other is of course Ephesians 2:20, which states that God’s household is built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Jesus Christ as the chief cornerstone.
As I have also learned working construction, a foundation is laid down one time in the beginning, and it is never done again.
The apostles served as the foundation of the emerging church by teaching about Christ Jesus, and by making the New Testament available in written form. In addition to the gospels of Jesus Christ, the New Testament includes the epistles (letters of instruction), for how to carry on in the faith after the apostles had passed.
Surely, no one would want to take anything Samuel Joaquin writes and add it to the New Testament. And well, if you would, then I would advise that you please read Revelation 22:18-19.
To summarize, we know that the foundation of our faith, which was laid in the first century AD, was a sure foundation (Isaiah 28:16), because Jesus Christ was the chief cornerstone. We know that the apostles comprised a part of this foundation, along with the prophets. We know that once a foundation has been laid, it can never be laid again.
As I have asked before, if we are to believe that Samuel Joaquin is a living apostle today, then we should conclude that he is laying a foundation, so should we expect another Lamb of God to ensure it is a solid foundation? Absolutely not!
1 Corinthians sums it up very well: “Brothers, I could not address you as spiritual but as worldly—mere infants in Christ. I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready. You are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not worldly? Are you not acting like mere men? For when one says, “I follow Paul,” and another, “I follow Apollos,” are you not mere men?
What, after all, is Apollos? And what is Paul? Only servants, through whom you came to believe—as the Lord has assigned to each his task. I planted the seed, Apollos watered it, but God made it grow. So neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God, who makes things grow. The man who plants and the man who waters have one purpose, and each will be rewarded according to his own labor. For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building.
By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as an expert builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should be careful how he builds. For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.” (1 Corinthians 3:1-11).
Verse 7 – ONLY God is anything. And verse 11 – NO other foundation can be laid, then the one which already has been.
LLDM teaches people that they must “earn” their salvation through good works.
Yet the Bible does not say that Salvation can be earned – it is a free gift from God, which once received by faith will produce good works.
Paul writes that we are saved by GRACE, we are not saved by works, so therefore no one can boast. It would be impossible for anyone to save ourselves by doing good works, because all human beings are sinful creatures. Even on your best day, you still messed up. We have righteousness through our faith in Jesus Christ alone. “He came to pay a debt He did not owe, because we owed a debt we could not pay.”
Qualification #4 – the election of an apostle – that is they had to be chosen specifically by Christ.
We all know the original 12 were hand-picked by Jesus Christ Himself. “When morning came, he called his disciples to him and chose twelve of them, whom he also designated apostles: Simon (whom he named Peter), his brother Andrew, James, John, Philip, Bartholomew, Matthew, Thomas, James son of Alphaeus, Simon who was called the Zealot, Judas son of James, and Judas Iscariot, who became a traitor. (Luke 6:13-16).
“With the reward he got for his wickedness, Judas bought a field; there he fell headlong, his body burst open and all his intestines spilled out. (Acts 1:18).
The remaining 11 apostles were left to choose who would take Judas’ place among the apostles. But the thing is, Jesus made that decision too.
“Then they prayed, “Lord, you know everyone’s heart. Show us which of these two you have chosen to take over this apostolic ministry, which Judas left to go where he belongs.” Then they cast lots, and the lot fell to Matthias; so he was added to the eleven apostles.” (Acts 1:24-26).
I have asked pastors of La Luz Del Mundo about this, and their reasoning was that since Jesus was not there in person to choose Matthias, it was not a direct decision from Jesus. However, the fact that they “Cast Lots” indicates that it was not a personal decision by any of the men, but was directly from God the Son. The main obvious reason for casting lots was the impartiality of a certain decision. No one could argue that the decision was the result of politics, nepotism, favoritism, etc. It basically was the same as the casting of dice of today.
Next, Jesus Christ personally appeared to Saul of Tarsis to make him his “chosen vessel” to deliver the message of the gospel to the Gentiles –
“As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?”
“Who are you, Lord?” Saul asked.
“I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,” he replied. “Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.”
The men traveling with Saul stood there speechless; they heard the sound but did not see anyone. Saul got up from the ground, but when he opened his eyes he could see nothing. So they led him by the hand into Damascus. For three days he was blind, and did not eat or drink anything.
In Damascus there was a disciple named Ananias. The Lord called to him in a vision, “Ananias!”
“Yes, Lord,” he answered.
The Lord told him, “Go to the house of Judas on Straight Street and ask for a man from Tarsus named Saul, for he is praying. In a vision he has seen a man named Ananias come and place his hands on him to restore his sight.”
“Lord,” Ananias answered, “I have heard many reports about this man and all the harm he has done to your saints in Jerusalem. And he has come here with authority from the chief priests to arrest all who call on your name.”
But the Lord said to Ananias, “Go! This man is my chosen instrument to carry my name before the Gentiles and their kings and before the people of Israel. I will show him how much he must suffer for my name.” (Acts 9:3-16)
Paul even refers to himself as – “Paul, an apostle—sent not from men nor by man, but by Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead” (Galatians 1:1)
Jesus appeared to Paul for the purpose of personally designating him as an apostle –
“‘Now get up and stand on your feet. I have appeared to you to appoint you as a servant and as a witness of what you have seen of me and what I will show you” (Acts 26:16).
In hearing the story of Aaron’s calling (depending on who’s version you hear), most people do not say he saw Jesus Christ appear to him personally. One pastor even tried to reason with me that “hearing His voice is the same as seeing him.” To which I would reply “Did hearing Him cause him to go blind for 3 days like Paul?”
Apostles of Jesus Christ were thoroughly familiar with Him, they were with him throughout His personal ministry on earth (Acts 1:21-22).
They heard Him teach, they saw His works, and they touched Him. And they declared everything in the New Testament to us so that we may have life and fellowship with our God –
“That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ.” (1 John 1:1-3)
Jesus affirmed these things when promising the gift of the Holy Spirit – “And you also must testify, for you have been with me from the beginning.” (John 15:27)
The Holy Spirit empowered the Biblical apostles with full rememberance of everything Jesus taught, and directed them in what to say and write – (John 14:26, Matthew 10:19-20, 1 Corinthians 2:6-13, Ephesians 3:3-7).
As a result of this, we have complete confidence in the apostles’ testimonies concerning the life and teachings of Jesus. By their message, we are brought to faith only in Christ and eternal life in Him. –
“Jesus did many other miraculous signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book. But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.” (John 20:30-31),
“We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ. We write this to make our joy complete.” (1 John 1:3-4).
Qualification #5 – The test of the Gospel.
If SJF were a true apostle, he would be preaching the exact same gospel preached by the Biblical Apostles. For it is written –
“But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!”(Galatians 1:8-9)
There are several warnings in the Bible about accepting a different gospel from the one in the Bible. This is all important. Let’s look at the gospel preached by the Biblical apostles. If it is added to, subtracted from, or changed in any way, it is not the gospel of the Bible.
“But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming:”(Romans 10:8)
OK, follow closely, because nowhere is there a clearer statement of what the Biblical Apostles proclaimed then what Paul writes here:
“That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. As the Scripture says, “Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame.” For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”(Romans 10:9-13)
There it is: “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”
What’s LLDM’s version? It would be something more like this: “If you confess with your mouth that you believe Samuel Joaquin was elected as apostle, and believe in your heart that he is the only authoratative representative of Christ on earth, you will be saved.”
Pretty distorted huh?
Let’s look at another passage where Paul makes it clear:
“Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve. After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, and LAST OF ALL he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.
For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me was not without effect. No, I worked harder than all of them—yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me. Whether, then, it was I or they, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed.”(1 Corinthians 15:1-11)
Again, let’s compare this to the gospel of Samuel Joaquin, what has LLDM added to this? It would be like this: “After LAST OF ALL appearing to Paul, Christ waited another 1,893 years, then he appeared again to Aaron, and 34 years after that he appeared also to Samuel and gave them divine revelations to pass on to us. These revelations include new regulations for how people should be baptized, dress, live, and believe. You must believe in the election of these “modern day apostles” if you wish to have any hope of salvation through Jesus Christ.”
Once again, pretty distorted huh?
It is clearly not identical to the Gospel preached by the Biblical Apostles. In preaching this, the leaders of LLDM, and “apostle” Samuel especially, are bringing condemnation on themselves. And that isn’t me who says this, it’s the Word of God:
“But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!”(Galatians 1:8-9)
That’s the most important test of an apostle. And in failing this, Samuel now completely fails the test of apostles based on how the Bible defines Apostles. Let’s look:
Eyewitness to Christ 0/1; Elected by Christ, 0/2; Signs, wonders and miracles, 0/3; Foundational role in Christianity 0/4; preaching of the true gospel, 0/5.
About Samuel, I confidently say this, but once again it is not me who says it, but the Word of God:
“For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.”(2 Corinthians 11:13-15)
LLDM Members will advise:
“Forget what other people say just listen to your heart.”
This is horrible advice. Do you not know that the most wicked thing is the heart of a man? Because it so easily lies and is so quick to believe lies that sound like the truth.
(Jeremiah 17:9) – The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?
(Ecclesiastes 9:3) – This is the evil in everything that happens under the sun: The same destiny overtakes all. The hearts of men, moreover, are full of evil and there is madness in their hearts while they live, and afterward they join the dead.
(Matthew 15:19) – For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander.
The point that I am making here is that no human can rely only on their heart to decide rather something or someone is the truth. This is why the Apostle Paul praised the Bereans.
(Acts 17:11) – Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.
And the Apostle John commands us to test very spirit against the Scriptures to test whether the spirit is from God or from the Antichrist.
(1 John 4:1) – 1Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
LLDM Members: Please do not deceive yourself by claiming that you don’t glorify Samuel Joaquin.
The fact is the choirs of this church sing songs about Samuel and Aaron in a worshipful manner (I’ve heard it for myself), and that is wrong. For an example of this, please take out your LLDM hymnal and look up all the songs mentioned in the following article:
http://www.sectas.org/Articulos/luzdelmundo/laluz.htm
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=es&u=http://www.sectas.org/Articulos/luzdelmundo/laluz.htm&ei=atjASuDYOJfq6APT24GEAQ&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=4&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%25C2%25BFCu%25C3%25A1les%2Bson%2Blas%2Bdoctrinas%2Bde%2B%2522La%2BLuz%2Bdel%2BMundo%2522%253F%26hl%3Den%26rlz%3D1T4GGIT_enUS329US329
If one examines the whole Bible in context, it becomes clear that what LLDM teaches and what the Bible teaches actually contradict each other.
P.S. – Welcome back, Jeziel. I’m still waiting for you to answer this question: What do we use as the source for truth? Do we use SJF and LLDM’s interpretation of the Bible, or do we use what the Bible itself actually says?
May 18th, 2010 at 9:44 am
BTW I am not addicted I just curious of who you are!!
May 18th, 2010 at 9:43 am
Stop okay , my dad knows them! They are not Lesbians and sister Rebecca was the truest sister I ever met. You should be ashame okay!!!! So Alberto isn’t your true name? and stop calling me Jezielito because thats what my family calls me and i pretty much hate u
May 18th, 2010 at 9:39 am
Jezielito,
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!JUDITH CORONADO IS A LESBIAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
along with her sister Rebeca. Please ask around, better yet ask your own father what his personal opinion about those two is. I’m sure he can better inform you.
You are as stubborn as they come. You say you don’t care for this website yet your already addicted to it. And as I stated before, I remain anonymous for the sake of my children. Yeah right, i’m supposed trust a stubborn teenage boy to keep his word and remain silent. You gotta be kidding!
May 18th, 2010 at 8:50 am
Alberto,
Its Jeziel !!!! I am tired of your lies, tired of your mental brain making up false statements. JUDITH CORONADO IS NOT A LESBIAN. I will sue if you say that again okay I know her very well and I know who she is. Alberto why are scared of revealing your identity to me? As said by everyone I am only a 16 year old. I am tired of your lies!!! I will find out who you are, i’m speaking to my Grandma and asking each of my uncles.
May 18th, 2010 at 8:47 am
“Diyhdk” or the donkey criticizing long ears:
You said about me:
“He won’t even tell us his real name because he knows that what he says is false and knows he could be sued for slander. Pray to God and flee this website. They are just hungry wolves looking the sheep to devour.”
Are you so blind? Do you really think that the emblem for the name “Joaquin” is TWO VICIOUS WOLVES, is just a coincidence? If you really believe that nothing happens without God’s hand intervention, then you have your answer.
Should we infer that everything you are telling here is a LIE because you do not use your real name? Then, what is your excuse? Are you too afraid of a lawsuit against you for libel?
We will analyze your words to see if they make sense and are in accord to reason, then we will judge.
Or maybe I’m wrong and your name is Diyhdk, then what is your last name and which one is the congregation you attend? In this way your peers would know who to blame for the ridiculous defense of your “apostle”.
May 18th, 2010 at 8:42 am
“”Have we lied that Samuel has supposedly written over 1,000 letters to the Church and that LLDM claims he is better than Paul?” – Now people, now this is truly a lie. I have a heard from the Apostles own words )and this is where people get it wrong), that he feels less than the Apostle Paul so there goes one lie.
Well, Diyhdk then you better straighten out the people in houston.
As translated from http://www.lldmhouston.org/historia.html –
“Thirteen were letters written by the Apostle Paul. The Apostle of Jesus Christ, our brother Samuel, has written over the past forty years of leadership and governance of the Church, near a thousand letters to the Church, and as many written to ministers or church members. In the entire history of the Church, since it was founded by Jesus Christ more than two thousand years, there was no organization and internal management as there is now. The ministries, directorates, commissions, fees administrative, everything absolutely everything, has been established by the Apostle of Jesus Christ.”
The only way that anyone could make such a comparison is to believe that these 1000+ letter from Samuel Joaquin are equal to or even better than the very Word of God, the Holy Bible.
“Have we lied that he fails the prerequisites of a true apostle? – Tell me where Jesus states the prerequsites of an Apostle. It funny seeing the invention of a heresy of these people.”
The Bible defines it in several places. There are about 5 requirements. I don’t have much time right now so I’ll just give you one that Samuel fails – Samuel was not and never has been an eyewitness to Christ’s resurrection.
“Therefore it is necessary to choose one of the men who have been with us the whole time the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, beginning from John’s baptism to the time when Jesus was taken up from us. For one of these must become a witness with us of his resurrection.”"(Acts 1:21-22)
Read all the comments on this blog – Samuel soundly fails the Biblical test of an apostle.
“Have we lied that Samuel has no education and “bought” his doctorate to be called doctor? – Yes, where do you get your evidence that he bought his own doctorate. He worked for it as everyone works to achieve things.”
Samuel Joaquin Flores does not have any formal education or theological training. Nor is he really a Doctor.
He was granted an honorary doctorate in education from Iberoamerica two years ago. Iberoamerica is not an educational institution itself, it is a non-profit group set up by political leaders.
Source: Carlos A. Montemayor
camonte102@aol.com
And there is just a little bit the evidence that you are just dismissing what we say because you want to believe they are lies.
LLDM and Samuel Joaquin are the only ones telling lies, Diyhdk.
Diyhdk, tell me – what do you use as a source for truth? What the Bible actually says, or what SJF interprets the Bible to mean?
Diyhdk, who do you say Jesus is?
“Therefore, holy brothers, who share in the heavenly calling, fix your thoughts on Jesus, the apostle and high priest whom we confess.”(Hebrews 3:1)
May 18th, 2010 at 7:46 am
Dear loved ones in Christ Jesus,
Remember the “Rabbit Hole” effect!! Keep your eyes on the prize, the Lord Jesus’ gosple of salvation. What ever SJF is doing, or has done, or is purchasing with his churches money, or where he goes for vaction or even who he spends his personal time with, does not matter; are they events of his works in his heart? Yes.
But what matters is that we continue to bring to light that he is preaching a false gosple that is of the anti-christ’s spirit and can only be fought with the spiritual weapons of rightousness – the Word of God – The Holy Scripture and is the work of the Holy Spirit. The Spirit of the one and only savior Christ Jesus.
Continue to be steadfast in pray and in encouraging the reading of the Bible for it is the only medican that will lift the vail of darkness from their hearts and cure them of the disease of death – the sin of Adam.
God’s blessing and peach of Christ be in our hearts. Amen
May 18th, 2010 at 7:32 am
to Diyhdk,
Your fanatism blinds you. You say Oscar and the rest of us here invent lies, only because we can’t prove it with physical evidence.
Diyhdk, can you present me your physical evidence that proves, otherwise? Can you honestly say that in LLDM they dont teach that SJF is the only PERFECT MAN, FREE OF SIN WALKING THE FACE OF THE EARTH?
I was a teeneger warming up the benches in that beautifull temple in East L.A. listening to the instructions from the minister persuading everyone in attendance to show their support of the Mexican political party EL PRI. the minister also encourgaged everyone who was a Mexican born citizen to exercise the right to vote in favor of EL PRI. These are the exact words he used, !!!!!!!!!!!!EL DESEO DEL VARON DE DIOS ES QUE APOYEMOS AL PRI, Y EL DESEO DEL VARON DE DIOS ES UN MANDAMIENTO!!!!!!!!!!!!! Im sure you’ve heard the statement many times before.
Basically samue joaquin feared that EL PRI would loose to el PAN a rival party whom samuel claimed had ties with the catholic church. Please dont call me a liar.
my sister was a member of el grupo de jovenes serving Samuel in his then, modest home in East L.A. I witnessed my sister and the rest of the young Ladies at the time put on the most fitted figure revealing uniformed dresses, just to serve samuel joaquin in his home. By the way, my sister at the time 16yrs old, fell victim to child molestation at the hands of the perpetuous lesbian JUDITH CORONADO. im sure you are familiar with her, since she helps run the travel agency own by SJF.. she has always been one of SMJ closest confidents in East L.A. she was managing el grupo the jovencitas at that time serving SMJ privately in his home. So please, !!!!!!!!!!!DO NOT CALL ME A LIAR!!!!!!!!!!
May 18th, 2010 at 6:42 am
I do apolagize for misunderstanding of my last entry:
“hey I do not waste my time serving God how Jesus taught. I rather defend the ministry of an Apostle”
I meant something else but lets continue to Oscar’s lies!!!
“You wish. Name one lie, and try to refute it. Don’t just come in here and call us all liars, tell us where we have lied. Have we lied in that Samuel has a plaque outside his church in Houston with his name etched 5 times bigger than the name of Jesus? Have we lied that Samuel has supposedly written over 1,000 letters to the Church and that LLDM claims he is better than Paul? Have we lied that he fails the prerequisites of a true apostle? Have we lied on the beginnings of the Church with drunk womanizing pastors like Ignacio Castañeda? Have we lied that Samuel dresses in Armani and used Church money to buy a ranch with exotic animals worth 3 million dollars near San Antonio? Have we lied that Samuel has no education and “bought” his doctorate to be called doctor? Have we lied that LLDM claims to be the only church with salvation? Have we lied that that LLDM steered it’s congregation to vote for El PRI in Mexico? Have we lied about Samuel forgetting his friends like Otoniel Ramirez before he inherited the church from Aaron? Have we lied that people have tried to research my identity to find out who I am and “shut me down”? Have we lied that LLDM brainwashes widows to donate their houses to the church? Have we lied that LLDM sends pastors to the poorest of places while the “princes” get the best churches? Have we lied that in some places churches are built for LLDM by unqualified personnel and without proper city permission? Have we lied that young women work at Samuel’s home in well-adjusted uniforms to reveal their figure? Have we lied that Samuel goes to Las Vegas casinos?”
The definition of a lie is a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood.
Deliberate intent to decieve, now Oscar I do ask you something and please dont try to refute the question by asking some other question because I will not answer!
Do you honestly believe what you say? Now you proclaim many things without bringing forth any true evidence. How can I disprove your lies without you having proper evidence?
Now lets say I make a website called “oscarisstupid.com” (not meant to offend no one just an example) and in this website I start to post many blogs such as “The Truth About Oscar Nuno” and I start saying the same thing you say about the Apostle Samuel Joaquin:
Oscar has a plaque outside his church in Houston with his name etched 5 times bigger than the name of Jesus. Oscar dresses in Armani and used Church money to buy a ranch with exotic animals worth 3 million dollars near San Antonio.Oscar has no education and “bought” his doctorate to be called doctor. Oscar steered it’s congregation to vote for El PRI in Mexico. young women work at Oscar’s home in well-adjusted uniforms to reveal their figure. Oscar goes to Las Vegas casinos.
Is this true Oscar? I believe not!
Now lets look at your false claim! Frank Medina claims so many things and honestly I believe his whole claims are lies! How can we prove that Frank Medina was ever that near to Samuel Joaquin? Can he prove it or is he just lying:
1.”Have we lied that Samuel has supposedly written over 1,000 letters to the Church and that LLDM claims he is better than Paul?” – Now people, now this is truly a lie. I have a heard from the Apostles own words )and this is where people get it wrong), that he feels less than the Apostle Paul so there goes one lie.
2.Have we lied that he fails the prerequisites of a true apostle? – Tell me where Jesus states the prerequsites of an Apostle. It funny seeing the invention of a heresy of these people.
3. Have we lied on the beginnings of the Church with drunk womanizing pastors like Ignacio Castañeda? – Yes sir you did! yet again where we see these people want to lie! Ignacio was not a drunk and Oscar didn’t even know him or “Frank Medina”.
4. Have we lied that Samuel dresses in Armani and used Church money to buy a ranch with exotic animals worth 3 million dollars near San Antonio? – Clothes bought by the members of Church as well as the Ranch.
5. Have we lied that Samuel has no education and “bought” his doctorate to be called doctor? – Yes, where do you get your evidence that he bought his own doctorate. He worked for it as everyone works to achieve things.
6. Have we lied that LLDM claims to be the only church with salvation?- This on is true. We are and I am most certain, the Only true Church of a living God.
7.Have we lied that that LLDM steered it’s congregation to vote for El PRI in Mexico? – Again no evidence to support that except for websites that anyone can make.
The bell rang for class I will finish later
May 17th, 2010 at 10:13 pm
Diyhdk,
I’m a little confused by this comment you made:
“hey I do not waste my time serving God how Jesus taught. I rather defend the ministry of an Apostle:”
First of all, what makes Samuel Joaquin Flores an Apostle? The Bible does not name him as one or foretell of him anywhere. He only claims to be an apostle. Now, I would ask you to clarify your statement, because it appears that what you are saying is that instead of serving God how Jesus taught; you would rather serve a man who claims to be an apostle.
It is beyond that, beloved members of LLDM – The Bible says that Christ Jesus is the only mediator between man and God (1 Timothy 2:5), but SJF claims that he mediates/intercedes to God for the sins of mankind. By doing so, in effect, Samuel claims to be Christ himself.
Diyhdk, my question for you is very simple – You quoted from the writings of the Apostle Matthew, the Apostle John, and the Apostle Paul. Can you show me any writings of “apostle” Samuel anywhere in the Bible?
Let’s look at the context of the passages Diyhdk quoted, and let’s see if we really should put our faith in SJF:
He quotes: Hebrews 3:7-19, let’s look at the whole passage:
“Therefore, holy brothers, who share in the heavenly calling, fix your thoughts on Jesus, the apostle and high priest whom we confess.”(Hebrews 3:1)
This is the 3rd chapter of the Epistle to the Hebrews, and the subject is this – Christ is superior to Moses.
In Hebrews chapter 1, we find that Jesus is superior to the prophets, and in Hebrews chapter 2 we find that Christ is superior also to the angels.
Having established these great truths, the writer continues now:
“”Therefore, holy brothers, who share in the heavenly calling, fix your thoughts on Jesus, the apostle and high priest whom we confess.”"(Hebrews 3:1) – “therefore” begins this chapter, so you must understand what he has already said – Christ is superior to the prophets and to angels, therefore…
”brothers” here refers to the Hebrews. I feel that Paul is the author of Hebrews, and he himself was a Hebrew, but the 12 Apostles were also Jewish (Hebrew). According to the flesh, Paul was a Hebrew, and he calls them his brethren.
They are believers, and they are “holy”, not because of what they do, but the word actually means “separated”. They are separated unto God – they belong to Him now.
And he says “who share in the heavenly calling”. Now, the Nation Israel had an earthly calling. All the promises to the Nation Israel in the Old Testament had to do with this earth. He promised them rain from heaven. He promised them the Land, and the fertility of the soil. He promised them bountiful crops, and those blessings were physical blessings, although they did have a spiritual purpose.
Now, when the writer says here “partakers of the heavenly calling”, remember that these are Jewish Christians – these are the brethren who had an earthly calling, but they’ve come up to date. They now belong to Christ – part of a generation of Israelites who had given their lives to Christ.
We have moved into a different age, the writer to the Hebrews makes that very clear. In the past (for these Hebrews it was just yesterday really), to offer animal sacrifices was according to the Mosaic system and it was right. But now, it’s wrong. Because it’s all been fulfilled in Christ and now you have a heavenly calling.
The earthly calling has not disappeared, but now they have been called by a heavenly calling. They are partakers of the heavenly calling.
See, a man can be a Jew and be a child of God. Just like us Gentiles – a man is still a Mexican, or a German, or an Irishman, or a Swede, or an Italian – you don’t give that up.
Gentiles are still Gentiles, and Jews are still Jews – together they are partakers of a heavenly calling (this is the real meaning of Ephesians 2 also, BTW).
A Jew is still a Jew, the difference is he has now come to Christ – he’s been moved along by the revelation of God. He’s now partaker of the heavenly calling, that’s important to see.
And the Epistle to the Hebrews now becomes almost meaningless if you don’t consider the fact to whom it is written and when it was written. This is what context is all about.
“partakers of the heavenly calling” Now, notice what the writer says: “fix your thoughts on Jesus, the apostle and high priest whom we confess.”
Who is the apostle whom we confess? It’s Jesus!!!
Now, we’re told to consider him (fix your thoughts on). This means that we are to pay faithful attention only to Him. We are to give time to Him. This is a very important statement. Consider Him – fix your thoughts on Jesus. Spend your time thinking about Him. It’s a very significant thing. It means careful, CAREFUL thought and serious attention. It’s one we should spend more than a little time with. He says “the apostle”. The Lord Jesus was an apostle in very barest meaning of the word. After all, what is an apostle? It’s one who is sent.
Consider Jesus the apostle – He was sent from God to this world. He’s God’s messenger. He is the revelation of God. Consider Him. Now, He comes from God to man as an apostle, but he says “the apostle and High Priest.” That is the main subject of this epistle. The writer only mentions Jesus as our High Priest right here, but by the 5th chapter that’s all he talks about. But at this point let me say this:
We have Jesus. We have a High Priest in Jesus, and we are to consider Him. A high priest is going in the opposite direction of an apostle. An apostle (New Testament) goes from God to man with a message, just like a prophet (Old Testament).
But a high priest is on the other side of the freeway going to opposite direction, He’s coming from man to God. He represents man before God. Jesus is our High Priest, He represents us before God. It’s Jesus! Jesus is our mediator. Jesus! Jesus is our intercessor. Jesus! The emphasis is on His humanity. The Man Christ Jesus.
There’s a Man in the Glory today, my friends! And He represents us up there. I’m very happy He’s up there. Because the Bible tells us He is an advocate for us, He defends us, He is on our side, He understands us as no one else understands us.
He’s up there today for you and for me. Jesus understands how you feel. And we are to consider this today. We are to give serious thought and careful attention He is our apostle – He was sent from God the Father to man. And He went into the Father’s presence for you and for me today. Faith in SJF will come to naught.
Only faith in the Resurrected Jesus is faith in our apostle and Great High Priest.
I wonder why you would skip that verse when citing this passage, Diyhdk??
LLDM Members – what else are they keeping from you?
Search the Scriptures and find the truth yourselves!!! May God richly bless all of you!
May 17th, 2010 at 8:42 pm
It’s funny how LLDM tries to feed us that they have Jesus as their priority and that they only “honor” their apostle. Yeah right, every mass has the apostle at its center, not Jesus. It seems that being better than Paul isn’t enough, Samuel wants to be better than Jesus! Come to Samuel for Salvation! Yeah, right. Talk about horse manure.
May 17th, 2010 at 8:30 pm
Hungry wolves?! Lies?!
-Yawn-
You wish. Name one lie, and try to refute it. Don’t just come in here and call us all liars, tell us where we have lied. Have we lied in that Samuel has a plaque outside his church in Houston with his name etched 5 times bigger than the name of Jesus? Have we lied that Samuel has supposedly written over 1,000 letters to the Church and that LLDM claims he is better than Paul? Have we lied that he fails the prerequisites of a true apostle? Have we lied on the beginnings of the Church with drunk womanizing pastors like Ignacio Castañeda? Have we lied that Samuel dresses in Armani and used Church money to buy a ranch with exotic animals worth 3 million dollars near San Antonio? Have we lied that Samuel has no education and “bought” his doctorate to be called doctor? Have we lied that LLDM claims to be the only church with salvation? Have we lied that that LLDM steered it’s congregation to vote for El PRI in Mexico? Have we lied about Samuel forgetting his friends like Otoniel Ramirez before he inherited the church from Aaron? Have we lied that people have tried to research my identity to find out who I am and “shut me down”? Have we lied that LLDM brainwashes widows to donate their houses to the church? Have we lied that LLDM sends pastors to the poorest of places while the “princes” get the best churches? Have we lied that in some places churches are built for LLDM by unqualified personnel and without proper city permission? Have we lied that young women work at Samuel’s home in well-adjusted uniforms to reveal their figure? Have we lied that Samuel goes to Las Vegas casinos?
We HAVEN’T LIED. Your fanatismo doesn’t let you see farther than your nose.
Psh! I can go on and on for days, but I’m sleepy.
May 17th, 2010 at 7:28 pm
To all the LLDM members,
Do not lose faith in the Apostle, what Frank says is a lie. He won’t even tell us his real name because he knows that what he says is false and knows he could be sued for slander. Pray to God and flee this website. They are just hungry wolves looking the sheep to devour.This website does not help at all, the best thing is to pray, not post lies or allow people to post lies. God knows all and knows the hearts.
Hebrews 3:7-19: So, as the Holy Spirit says:
“Today, if you hear his voice,
8do not harden your hearts
as you did in the rebellion,
during the time of testing in the desert,
9where your fathers tested and tried me
and for forty years saw what I did.
10That is why I was angry with that generation,
and I said, ‘Their hearts are always going astray,
and they have not known my ways.’
11So I declared on oath in my anger,
‘They shall never enter my rest.’ ”
12See to it, brothers, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. 13But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called Today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness. 14We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first. 15As has just been said:
“Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts
as you did in the rebellion.”
16Who were they who heard and rebelled? Were they not all those Moses led out of Egypt? 17And with whom was he angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies fell in the desert? 18And to whom did God swear that they would never enter his rest if not to those who disobeyed? 19So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief.
BTW “Frank Medina” your little story is irrational and I can prove those irrational points but hey I do not waste my time serving God how Jesus taught. I rather defend the ministry of an Apostle:
How were we before being brought to the light (LLDM): Focus your attention in Ephesians 2:1-10:
Made Alive in Christ
1As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature[a] and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath. 4But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast. 10For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
Then Jesus unified us in one Ephesians 2:11-19:
One in Christ
11Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” (that done in the body by the hands of men)— 12remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. 13But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.
14For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace, 16and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. 17He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. 18For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit. 19Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God’s people and members of God’s household,
Then now this is where it gets complicated for you all but easy for who opens their spiritual eyes: Ephesians 2:20-21:
20built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. 21In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. 22And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.
John 6:25-29: 26Jesus answered, “I tell you the truth, you are looking for me, not because you saw miraculous signs but because you ate the loaves and had your fill. 27Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. On him God the Father has placed his seal of approval.” 28Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?” 29Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”
Matthew 10:40-41: 40″He who receives you receives me, and he who receives me receives the one who sent me. 41Anyone who receives a prophet because he is a prophet will receive a prophet’s reward, and anyone who receives a righteous man because he is a righteous man will receive a righteous man’s reward. 42And if anyone gives even a cup of cold water to one of these little ones because he is my disciple, I tell you the truth, he will certainly not lose his reward.”
Apostles bring the Word of Jesus that corrects the path of Man.
John 17:20-26:20″My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: 23I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me. 24″Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world. 25″Righteous Father, though the world does not know you, I know you, and they know that you have sent me. 26I have made you known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them.”
God help all!!!
May 17th, 2010 at 4:01 pm
Amen Alberto! On the official website many years ago they had a question and answer part. One of the questions was Is Mary the mother of God? (obviously reffering to catholic beliefs) The answer was no because how could God have a mother. Well in that same human thinking How could God have a son? We are 3 dimensional beings trying to understand a God outside of time and dimension. They just don’t understand Jesus true purpose to become man for a time for the purpose of salvation.
May 17th, 2010 at 2:43 pm
I’m waiting “Old Frank’s or Jeziel or David response to my comments about homosexuality in the very guts and head of LLDM.
*
When Samuel Joaquin was accused publicly (in the media) of rape (homosexual practices) by Moises Padilla Iñiguez, the brother of Magda Padilla, Samuel’s mistress since childhood, Samuel was so pissed-off that he let his temper show in his real nature in front of the ministers that were having breakfast with him in “La Casa Grande”.
He slammed the table with the rolled newspaper with the accusations and exclaimed very angry: “”Now they don’t even left me my manliness , He says I’m an homosexual!” And he said – “I’d like to meet him face to face (to Moises Padilla) and say to him: ” Don’t you remember how you squealed as a pig when I was possessing you?”
Admitting with his own words that the rape had happened, but not the way Moisés had told the media, but all the opposite way (Moisés accounts were that he had been the active part in the rape).
All the ministers, including myself were flabbergasted of what we were hearing Samuel say.
Samuel very quickly recovered his posture and said “Well, that if really happened what Moises said” trying to correct his exasperation.
I was there, I saw it happen and nobody told me. That is why I laugh at the puerile defense of fanatic people totally ignorant of Samuel’s real private conduct.
I’m waiting for Old Frank’s response. Although I already know what his answer would be.
May 17th, 2010 at 12:44 pm
Let me get this straight to all the members of LLDM.
The bible says that Jesus can take our sins and only Jesus because he is the only perfect sacrifice.
Jesus Is God and pure and holy.
Apostle from LLDM, is a man, a sinner, and is preaching false teachings that go against the bible. Samuel did not die for us on a cross and he can not take away sins because the bible says that only Jesus can. A question to the Apostle of LLDM, Are you prepared to face Jesus if you were even worthy to be next to him? Why do you believe that you are as valuable as Jesus? Are you the anti Christ? Because Jesus is God and he is my perfect sacrifice.
May 17th, 2010 at 11:35 am
Food for Though.
In interacting with members of LLDM over the internet for the past 2 years many have responded with ‘just leave us alone’ or ‘what do you want with us’. Either statement declares “No Trespassing” and that we (the members) are in a world that makes us “feel good” and “safe”, so don’t mess this up for us.
I have often thought, if members of LLDM are so sure that they have the “truth” as taught by Samuel then why be so afraid to be open to those, who according to their understanding of the truth, are lost because we do not have the ability to understand the truth with out Samuel.
Read the following passage from the Gospel of Luke and see what the Holy Spirit says to you.
(Luke 4:33-37)
33In the synagogue there was a man possessed by a demon, an evil spirit. He cried out at the top of his voice, 34″Ha! What do you want with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are—the Holy One of God!”
35″Be quiet!” Jesus said sternly. “Come out of him!” Then the demon threw the man down before them all and came out without injuring him.
36All the people were amazed and said to each other, “What is this teaching? With authority and power he gives orders to evil spirits and they come out!” 37And the news about him spread throughout the surrounding area.”
For me it is simple, the spirit of the Antichrist knows and is only afraid of the one true Spririt of God, and it wants to be left alone.
May 17th, 2010 at 7:20 am
“The old Frank”,
Your comment:
“It is important that we realize that the only one that stands between God and us is Jesus. he is the only one that can mediate for our sins.”
Question is “he” here? Is Jesus or Samuel?
Your comment:
“So Jesus is between God and us? then he cannot be God, this is more than a joke! you are hilarious!”
Then please help me to understand how the world’s sins can be forgiven by the blood of Christ Jesus on the Cross if He is not God made Flesh.
May 16th, 2010 at 8:27 pm
I think the biggest problem for Frank and the rest of LLDM and many others is the following; they limit the power of god’s abilities to those of a human being. After all, we are speaking of a god that is above anything that is supernatural.
If God is a spirit, then what is the nature of god. Do spirits have mating partners later producing and off spring? in this case Jesus? thats where the problem lies. if you try to relate god to the limits of humanity, then all your are left with is no god at all , just another human being made of flesh and bone.
The bible states that no man or flesh can withstand the prescence of god, yet the bible states in John 1:1-14..that the word was with god and the word was god and that the word was made flesh and dwelt among and some beheld his glory.
As Colling & christopher have pointed out..
Isaiah 44:6 i am the first and last beside me there’s no other God.
yet Jesus says this about himself..
Revelation 22:12-13..i am the alpha and omega the first and the last
Revelation 2:8..here Jesus says this about himself..Im the first and last, which was dead and is alive.
My point is this, if you try to compare or make god to be exactly like one of us, you limit his powers as to what he can accomplish, you make him seem as if he has no control over the laws of physics. So with that in mind, in relation to human nature, yes Jesus is the son, yes Jesus is less then the father.
We must always remember god is beyond a supernatural being, perhaps that is why he felt that relating to a son just the same way you and i relate to our children as sons and daughters, perhaps we might come to understand his will and recognise him as our Master, Lord & savior.
May 16th, 2010 at 8:10 pm
Well put, Alberto.
Everybody knows John 3:16. But everybody should learn 1 Timothy 3:16 too.
“Beyond all question, the mystery of godliness is great:
He appeared in a body,
was vindicated by the Spirit,
was seen by angels,
was preached among the nations,
was believed on in the world,
was taken up in glory”(1 Timothy 3:16)
The mystery for me has always been why He did it. Who are we mere humans that God should have such love for us? No man is good, and no man is worthy of it. Why did God love us so much that He would send His Son?
Beyond all question, the mystery of godliness is indeed great. Why would the Son of God willingly set aside His own Deity – God out of eternity, and come to earth to take on our weak, frail human body?
Being vindicated (justified) by the Spirit, He is the only man to have lived his whole life without sin, perfectly obeying the Holy Spirit without any spot or blemish for 33 years He perfectly submitted to the will of His Father – why would He allow Himself to be executed as a criminal for us lowly sinners?
He was seen by angels – I wonder what the angels thought. They had been in His presence for all of eternity, they had seen what was created by Him (including themselves) – He was the very Word of God. But He came to Bethlehem. He became a man, He was born flesh. Even the angels had never seen Him until then, they saw Him and they said LOOK!! THERE HE IS!!! The Word had been born flesh, and the angels were so excited to finally see Him, they had to go and tell some shepherds nearby about it, and tell them to go look and see the Christ child.
He was preached among the nations – The Messiah has come! The Kingdom is near! They hung Him on a tree at Golgotha, but God raised Him up from the dead, and caused Him to be seen by many. The King has defeated death and IS alive!
Believed on in the world – The Man and the Glory, the Risen Christ! The Lamb of God – slayed for our transgressions, Resurrected from the grave in an immortal body to be our Great High Priest. Still bearing the wounds of our redemption, making intercession to God the Father for all whose faith is in Him alone – The Way, The Truth, and the Life!
He was taken up in Glory – He is at God’s right hand today, waiting for you to ask Him for grace. God gets to the door of your heart and He does not come any further, He knocks. Ask Him to come into your heart, and He will come in and dine with you, and you with Him.
John 3:16, 1 Timothy 3:16 – 2 solid foundations for our Faith.
Well, “old Frank” as you see, I feel that Alberto has a pretty good understanding of God’s grace. Silly questions you ask indeed, Frank.
Father, Son and Holy Spirit are 1 God. How is it possible? 1 God, in 3 Persons????? Well, I confess – I don’t know how it’s possible, I just know that it is Biblical. Ask me to explain it and I will openly tell you I can’t, but then again I don’t dare try to.
Assuming you will be able to understand and explain everything about God is pride of heart. It’s either making yourself at the same level with God, or making God small enough to where you can understand Him. God is too big for any person to understand.
According to the Bible, God the Father, God the Son (Jesus – the Christ), and God the Holy Spirit are 3 persons eternally existing as 1 God. How is it possible? I do not know, but as you know – Great is the mystery of godliness.
It’s more of a mystery to me as to why He loves mankind so graciously.
May the wisdom of the Holy Spirit come upon you, “old Frank” and may you know the things of Christ.
May 16th, 2010 at 7:55 pm
I saw, Alberto. But since you posted them, I’m leaving it as it is to avoid having multiple posts with the same material. No worries.
May all of you have a good beginning of the week.
May 16th, 2010 at 7:37 pm
!!Ay Paquito!!
Haha! Your still the same old silly Frank!
Read this passage it might help you understand better.
Timothy 3:16
16..Beyond all question, the mystery of godliness is great:
He appeared in a body, was vindicated by the Spirit, was seen by angels,
was preached among the nations,
was believed on in the world,
was taken up in glory.
May 16th, 2010 at 7:02 pm
I once asked my father, is the holy spirit in samuel joaquin any different from the holy spirit in you dad? he paused to think about, i’m guessing he wanted to make sure he wasn’t minimizing samuel joaquin’s apostleship before he finally said no!
the question is this,
If Jesus was just a normal man until the spirit of god descended upon him later becoming the son of god( the christ, messiah )why doesnt the bible isntruct us to worship ourselves and call ourselves mighty gods like he did with Jesus. …Remember…the apostles and many deciples worshiped him during his ministry. Have we forgotten that all of the old testament was a reminder to the isrealites that besides God himself there is no other God and that to no other God should any knee bow down? if jesus was not God himself why would he eat his own words from the old testament and allow everyone on earth and worship him.
May 16th, 2010 at 6:54 pm
Alberto,
You are a total confused individual you stated “It is important that we realize that the only one that stands between God and us is Jesus..he is the only one that can mediate for our sins. We are not judging anyone here, we are simply stating the truth explained by the Apostle john himself.”
This is what we have been saying all along, your buddy Colin and Christopher is going to rebuke you! Maybe they will not notice this b/c of the veil! So Jesus is between God and us? then he cannot be God, this is more than a joke! you are hilarious!
The old Frank
May 16th, 2010 at 6:39 pm
For many years i sat listening to the members conducting the services in LLdM make the claim that Samuel Joaquin is the only perfect man, free of sin here in earth; not once did i ever see a Pastor from lldm rebuke this claim.
Remember what the Apostle John said…8..If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10..If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.
May 16th, 2010 at 6:21 pm
To David,
What they teach in LLDM is even worst than just calling someone a sinner! What they teach at LLDM is a double whammy for your self esteem. As i’ve stated earlier, i was born into LLDM, part of what i heard many times is that god chose the worst in society to be called children of god and that we need to be so thankfull to Samuel Joaquin for belonging to his church!! what a joke!
if i recall Jesus wasn’t prejudice towards the rich he only said its harder for them to enter the kingdom of heaven!!
May 16th, 2010 at 6:08 pm
David wrote
Does Samuel J. Sin? That is a question you might want to ask him… Tell me Mary do they teach you that at church? To call men sinners? Not at the church where I assist. Well David, Marry is right, were are all sinners, even Samuel joaquin!
The Apostle John said….
1John1:-10
8..If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10..If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.
1John 2:1-2
1My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. 2He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for[a] the sins of the whole world.
It is important that we realize that the only one that stands between God and us is Jesus..he is the only one that can mediate for our sins. We are not judging anyone here, we are simply stating the truth explained by the Apostle john himself.
May 16th, 2010 at 5:41 pm
posting 1242-43 were mine(alberto) forgot to change the name title..ooops!!
May 16th, 2010 at 1:50 pm
Mary,
I am totally with you. If there is one god – the father, why you pray to jesus, if he is just the man? in my opinion that would make lldm members idolators. _
I noticed that lldm say that jesus is the son of god, hence he is more than a human , but he is not a god, so is Jesus half god? and LLDM has ONE god the father, and ONE HALF GOD – JESUS, and ONE true apostol.
May 16th, 2010 at 12:24 pm
Wow now that is even more skewed than I thought. my husband used to like to show me that verse in corinthians about no flesh and bones entering heaven but I didn’t connect why he always showed me that verse. now i get it.
So if Jesus is dead then who are they praying to? They say it is Jesus. If he is just a man now then is He not the Son of God anymore?
May 16th, 2010 at 7:59 am
David’s and Old Frank’s silence is what I like to call, “deafening.”
“First remove the plank from your own eye; and then you will see clearly to remove the speck in your brothers eye.”… I doubt old Frank has removed the planck on his eye, guys. There is a big difference between telling the truth and judging, and contrary to what LLDM proponents think, we are not so much as judging them but telling them the truth, which hurts. Had Samuel never claimed to be an apostle or his church as the “one true church”, I never would have written a blog about him. But, it wasn’t enough to be like a Joel Osteen, a fine preacher, Samuel wanted semi-divine status; hence, that’s why we are here. Even the plaque at the entrance of LLDM in Houston has the name of Samuel Joaquin Flores etched 5 times larger than the name of Jesus Christ!
I can almost imagine old Frank informing his pastors about what goes on in this blog, and trying to know everything about me by questioning my uncle Job and members of my father’s family, people that don’t know anything about me. Did you truly think you were a step ahead of me, Frank? You and the whole CCBUSA team are subpar compared to the quality and truthfulness of the people posting here. This is one site in which your every argument is refuted; therefore, your desperation.
May 15th, 2010 at 3:59 pm
Christopher, I have a question:
What does LLDM make of men like Barnabas, Silas, Luke and Mark? The men who traveled with Paul and helped spread the gospel message even though they themselves were not officially in the office of “Apostles”. It seems they focus a lot on some of the great saints of the faith, but disregard the fact that all of them had help.
Peter was corrected by Paul, Paul never traveled alone – Barnabas, Luke, Silas, etc…he always had a partner to preach with him.
I’m just curious if they see these men (Mark, Barnabas, etc.) not as equals, but more of followers and disciples of Moses, Paul, etc.?
May 15th, 2010 at 1:44 pm
I want to add another point to my last posting.
Because LLDM does not teach that Jesus the Christ became flesh and teaches that the Spirit of God came into a man by the name Jesus and left him at Jesus’ death is how we know that LLDM theology is false.
It fails John’s test. (1 John 4:1-3) John was very clear in supporting the fact that Jesus Christ is the Word and the Word became flesh. (John 1:14) And that Jesus Christ is still in the flesh alive and the Word did not come into a flesh, but the Word became flesh! Amen
Does water go into an ice cube? No, it transforms into an ice cube. And so it is with the Word of God, the living water, transformed into flesh and body.
May 15th, 2010 at 1:30 pm
Mary, God’s Blessings to you.
Your question as to where does LLDM think Jesus is now is a good one. LLDM teaches that God is not a triune God meaning that they do not believe in the Scriptural teachings that God is the Father, the Son (Jesus) and the Holy Spirit. LLDM teaches that God is one Spirit and that Jesus was just a fleshly man and what went back to heaven was only the Spirit of God. Although LLDM will not come out and openly say this – Jesus’ body is somewhere rotted away after 2000 years waiting to be raisen at the seconding coming.
Now what LLDM does teach is that it is not Jesus, but Samuel Joaquin Flores who will gather the church and take the bride into heaven. The only way that this faith in SJF can be is, like I stated before, that they believe he has the Spirit of God, the same Spirit that came upon Jesus, and SJF is the only today who has the “S”pirit of God in him.
So in other words LLDM’s view is – since the Bible says that it is Jesus who will take the church into heaven, but not the physical Jesus the Spirit of God that was in Jesus which now it is only in SJF; therefore it most be SJF who will take his church up into heave to be with God.
You see the key to all of LLDM theology is based on their belief that Jesus the Christ is not in the flesh in the perfect immortal body, the “First Fruits” from the dead. If any member was to actually read the accounts of Jesus’ resurrection, his 40 days alive after his resurrection, his ascension and the Book of Hebrews they would be confronted with the fact that Jesus the Christ is ALIVE not just in Spirit, but in IMMORTAL flesh and bone body, just as all in Him will be made new at his second coming! Amen.
This is why the Lord Jesus is referred to as the “First Fruits” from the dead, because is over death and is the first to be made into the body that the Father originally had for us and we will soon to follow Him. Jesus is the live example of what we will become so that we will be able to worship the Father forever! Amen.
May 15th, 2010 at 1:29 pm
Mary, God’s Blessings to you.
Your question as to where does LLDM think Jesus is now is a good one. LLDM teaches that God is not a triune God meaning that they do not believe in the Scriptural teachings that God is the Father, the Son (Jesus) and the Holy Spirit. LLDM teaches that God is one Spirit and that Jesus was just a fleshly man and what went back to heaven was only the Spirit of God. Although LLDM will not come out and openly say this – Jesus’ body is somewhere rotted away after 2000 years waiting to be raisen at the seconding coming.
Now what LLDM does teach is that it is not Jesus, but Samuel Joaquin Flores who will gather the church and take the bride into heaven. The only way that this faith in SJF can be is, like I stated before, that they believe he has the Spirit of God, the same Spirit that came upon Jesus, and SJF is the only today who has the “S”pirit of God in him.
So in other words LLDM’s view is – since the Bible says that it is Jesus who will take the church into heaven, but not the physical Jesus the Spirit of God that was in Jesus which now it is only in SJF; therefore it most be SJF who will take his church up into heave to be with God.
You see the key to all of LLDM theology is based on their belief that Jesus the Christ is not in the flesh in the perfect immortal body, the “First Fruits” from the dead. If any member was to actually read the accounts of Jesus’ resurrection, his 40 days alive after his resurrection, his ascension and the Book of Hebrews they would be confronted with the fact that Jesus the Christ is ALIVE not just in Spirit, but in IMMORTAL flesh and bone body, just as all in Him will be made new at his second coming! Amen.
This is why the Lord Jesus is referred to as the “First Fruits” from the dead, because is over death and is the first to be made into the body that the Father originally had for us and we will soon to follow Him. Jesus is the live example of what we will become so that we will be able to worship the Father forever! Amen.
May 15th, 2010 at 12:29 pm
Christopher,
Thanks for writing LLDM beliefs on Jesus. But where do they believe Jesus is now??? Do they believe he just a normal corpse in soul sleep. do they believe in the second coming of Christ?
May 15th, 2010 at 9:25 am
In response of “Old frank” comments regarding my “homosexual relationships” which I never stated or implied in any post, I just would point out that if I were an homosexual I rather be still in LLDM. I would be enjoying a place of privilege as several ministers of the high hierarchy, specially because I was an “unconditional” close aide to SJF and I knew his taste for exotic sexual practices.
And I have been posting some comments in Oscar’s blog about homosexuality, not because of your comment, but long before. You can read them freely.
But in case you do not want to bother yourself, I’m posting here a copy of one of them, although you can follow his trail in Oscar’s blog:
-11 Frank Medina Says:
March 17th, 2010 at 9:26 pm
La Luz del Mundo Church publicly rejects homosexuality, because it is biblically a sin, although Jesus Christ never mentioned explicitly, it is implied in the biggest command, and his apostles strongly condemned the practice of it.
However, LLDM and it’s apostle, tolerates and even practices homosexuality in an undercover way (It’s of public knowledge in Guadalajara that Samuel Joaquín had homosexual relations with Moises Padilla, the little brother of one of his closest aides). Hence the condescend behavior toward ministers that have been practicing it (everybody knows about it, but nobody says nothing against) in a “don’t ask, don’t tell” like policy.
I have knowledge of Samuel’s aides homosexual practices that he knew about, and instead of reprimand and punish them for their condemnable behavior, he (SJF) put them in charge of the youth. This practice is more notorious with the female sex.
So, it is not to my surprise that these practices continue within the high levels of LLDM hierarchy, no matter what they officially say, they do the opposite.- Sic.
*
I can give you specific names of people close to “the apostle” still practicing homosexuality and lesbianism, in Guadalajara and in Los Angeles, but I’m pretty sure you already know them.
All the defendants of SJF have been always crying foul play and lies from us in this site and others, but never denied anything with proof. I would like to see your defense on the people mentioned here.
May 14th, 2010 at 9:03 pm
Alberto, sum, Oscar, Christopher,
Thank all of you for your encouraging comments! All I have is a desire to know God and a drive to study the Scriptures, praying for the guidance of the Holy Spirit. My entire goal here and elsewhere in witnessing to members of LLDM is to encourage more independent Bible study among them.
Test the things taught by LLDM – listen to their lessons and the Scripture they use. But then objectively compare their lessons to the whole passage of Scripture.
Look to see if the application LLDM uses actually fits the context of the Scripture. Ask: Who is speaking in this passage? What is the setting? What/who is being addressed? If a passage is unclear – look at it in the light of other clearer passages. An investment in a concordance is something you will never regret, because you can look up what you’re studying and it will tell you every other passage that connects to that passage, and everywhere else the same word is used or topic discussed. Bible dictionaries help understand the words in the context of the language of the time in which they were written.
I’ve mentioned before on this website how God chose us to be living in the age of deceit, and we need to guard ourselves against false teaching more than ever before.
But God is so gracious! He has also chosen us to live in the information age, where the Word of God is available like never before. There’s about 6,000 years worth of Bible commentaries available to us today, and while you can’t use their commentaries as a source of truth, you can see many other people’s perspectives on the Scriptures down through history. You may agree with them, or think they are way off, but there is nothing wrong with reading or listening to them and just seeing what they have to say. Study Bibles already have them down at the bottom of the page.
There is software, websites and programs available (The Blue Letter Bible for example) which will show you any passage of Scripture in the original language in which it was written. They’ll tell you the root, pronounciation, everything. You can structure the whole sentence in it’s original language if you want to. And the majority of these programs and software are 100% free, btw.
There is 6,000 years of Jewish and Christian history available that can give us a perspective of all the judeo-christian triumphs and troubles of the past and even our day.
There is a plethera of information right at our fingertips today, and many useful helps for Bible study. But the study aid that helps more than anything else is this – submitting to God in humility and confessing to Him that we’re not going to understand anything without His help. We need to seek God’s wisdom and not man’s wisdom.
LLDM Members, as I believe Christopher mentioned before – the Bible is not really 1 big book, it’s just 66 little books. Pick 1, it doesn’t matter which 1 (although I’d recommend one of the Gospels to start with – Luke has always been my favorite of the Gospels personally). But just pick one, and make the time to go through the whole book yourself – verse by verse, chapter by chapter until you’ve prayerfully read your way through the whole book. I guarantee you will feel closer to God, and won’t be able to wait to know more about Him through the Word and you’ll move on to the next book to study.
Regenerate your mind every day by the reading of God’s Word. There are 66 books, take them one at a time until you know them all. I’m still working on knowing all the books myself, but we ALL need to know them ALL!
I would recommend this to everyone, but when you study the Bible on your own – each time you do, before you even open it up and read 1 word, Pray for wisdom from God. Pray something like this:
“Heavenly Father, please open my mind and heart today and prepare me to receive the perfect wisdom of your Holy Spirit as I study your Word. In Jesus’ name I pray. Amen.”
May 14th, 2010 at 8:39 pm
Colin – God’s Blessing to you and thank you for your additional input and a BIG AMEN!!
May 14th, 2010 at 2:57 pm
Christopher, thank you very much!
I just want to add one little portion of Scripture which is also avoided then, if LLDM teaches that “At Pentecost the Holy Spirit returned to indwell Himself in the original 11 +1 (new) apostles and then later in Paul for a total of 13.”
Then they are ignoring the Scriptures which state they were ALL together at Pentecost(Acts 2:1), that is – all the believers: the 12 apostles + the women + other disciples of Jesus Christ, and they ALL received the Holy Spirit at Pentecost.
How many believers were there in those days?
“In those days Peter stood up among the believers (a group numbering about a hundred and twenty)”(Acts 1:15)
About 120. Very small number, but the 12 apostles were only 10% of the total people who received the Holy Spirit at Pentecost.
On a side note, according to the Mosaic Law in Leviticus – Pentecost is 50 days after firstfruits. In the day of grace, we are no longer under the Law, but under grace. And under grace it’s been revealed that the celebration of firstfruits was given in the Law, but it is really a type for the celebration of the Resurrection of Jesus Christ – the “Firstfruits” of those to rise from the dead, never to die again. Pentecost, we know is the outpouring of the Holy Spirit on all those who are diligently seeking God.
The point is this – According to the Hebrew Calendar, the Day of Pentecost is only about 10 days from today.
I solicit the prayers of all of you to join me in asking our heavenly Father for another “Pentecostal” outpouring of the Holy Spirit to open the eyes and turn the hearts of LLDM and SJF’s faithful to the truth of Our Lord Jesus Christ
May 14th, 2010 at 2:26 pm
Dear sum,
LLDM has already done what you feared. Under the theology of LLDM, Samuel Joaquin Flores is the (new) Messiah to the world. On the same level as what they teach Jesus the man was. This is why LLDM can not teach the truth that Jesus the Christ is still alive in the flesh, because with Jesus the Christ still in the flesh then the world has no need for another Messiah (anointed One), angel of God, here on earth. This is exactly what the author (Paul) was telling the Jews in the book of Hebrews.
Has anyone noticed that in all of the Scriptural citing by members of LLDM on this blog the Book of Hebrews has almost never, if ever, been cited or even mentioned. LLDM will not teach nor preach it in church nor in private because Hebrews clearly is tell all that no sin born human male can ever be the true and perfect Mediator, High Priest, Intercessor between mankind and the Father in Heaven, accept for Lord Jesus the Christ.
Quit some time ago I told of my first hand account of the Kodak production and how Jesus the Christ was mentioned as “only a man who spoke of peace to the world, but he is no more.” and that “Samuel Joaquin Flores is now the new savior of the world.”
LLDM is not deceived, they whole heartedly believe that the Spirit of God (uppercase “S”) is only dwelling in SJF and because he alone has the Spirit he is the new savior for the forgiveness of sins and the way for salvation.
For LLDM – SJF is the way, the truth and the life and no comes to the Father but through him.
This can only be possible if one believes as the Gnostics do that a man by the name of Jesus, the son of Joseph received the Holy Spirit of God when he was baptized by John the Baptist and changing the man Jesus into Jesus the Christ for a period of 3 years, and at the time of the crucifixion when the body of the man Jesus died the Holy Spirit of God left the lifeless body to return to heaven all by Himself and not as Father, Son and Holy Spirit the perfect 3 in 1 God.
This brings up another area of Scripture that LLDM will avoid at all costs and that is the accounts of resurrection of Jesus the Christ and the following 40 days that He appeared to all of the apostles and over 500 people with Him proving that He was not just Spirit but flesh and bone.
And another subject that is never touch on is the fact that the Scriptures clearly teach that the fleshly body of Jesus was the only human being Ever born on this earth to be “with out sin.” The only way this could happen was for Jesus’ father to be the Father because the sin of Adam is pasted down generation to generation by the father through his seed and not through the seed of the mother. God in Gensis for told of this fact to Eve “by our seed.”
And why was this important, because the true and final blood sacrifice for the attainment of sin in the world had to be given by perfect, sin free human blood and that was only found in the Lord Jesus.
They can not accept that the Spirit of God is the Lord Jesus Christ and is alive sitting at the right had of the Father and He is still the only way, truth and life that leads to the Father. (John 14:6)
Here is the logical of the theology of LLDM. A man by the name of Jesus became the Christ for a moment of time and did everything that was required at the time of his death on the cross for the forgiveness of sins for the world, but once he died forgiveness was lost, because the Holy Spirit has to have a human body to indwell in for the power of forgiveness to be “turn-on”.
At Pentecost the Holy Spirit returned to indwell Himself in the original 11 +1 (new) apostles and then later in Paul for a total of 13. (Now remember the requirement only a person how is born with perfect sinfree blood to sacerfice can have the power for forgiveness unto salvation.)
All was good for the next 100 years, until the apostle John die. The Holy Spirit now was unable to do His work for the forgiveness of sins and salvation for the next 2000 years that was until Eusebio Joaquin, a man who was clearly not born sinless, came into the world and entered into Guadalajara in 1926.
What is interesting is according to LLDM’s own history book, Eusebio (Aaron) did not go out to start his own “true church” because he though that he was the way for salvation, he did not even think of himself as an apostle. He left the place, church, that he and his wife were members of because of the physical and emotion abuse that he and his wife were receiving at the hand of Saulo and Silas.
My point is that LLDM was not originally founded on the belief, doctrine, and theology of “Apostolic Authority” for salvation. Eusebio (Aaron) was just a man who liked the power that Saulo and Silas had in their own church and left them to start his own. And it was not until SFJ got hold of LLDM that the LLDM we see is what it is today.
May 14th, 2010 at 2:16 pm
Okay Alberto you are starting to creep me out. Just tell me and if you dont want to make it public you can email me at lldmjeziel@gmail.com and I promise to remain silent. So which uncle or aunt do you speak about???
May 14th, 2010 at 1:52 pm
Alberto,
Thanks for your kind words, and welcome back. Your thoughts and knowledge are always welcomed here. In effect, I have a zero tolerance policy to posts that have foul language and attack our person with inane opinions. I believe that is the difference between this site and other sites, in regards to Samuel Joaquin and LLDM. To me, making your points is much more effective when using clean language, and when citing Scripture, we must be respectful and not surround it with trash.
On a personal level, I feel lucky to have met all you guys here and do feel as if the spirit of God shows its presence here. For instance, from where does Colin find the energy and knowledge to refute everything LLDM throws at him (and us)? If we are honest, it seems like the Holy Spirit itself works through him. I cannot keep up with such posts as his, even if I tried. Greater powers are needed for what he does and I find it ridiculous when people link his efforts and faith as inspired by Frank Medina. If Colin started a Church of his own, I would certainly enjoy paying him a visit, he writes truthfully. Truly…
May 14th, 2010 at 1:08 pm
To jeziel
For a few closest members of my family and friends its very clear what my thoughts are about LLDM and what I think about the doctrine; but for the sake of my children, so that they are not despiced, rediculed and treated as cursed children by the rest of the circle of family and friends, i keep my thoughts to myself. Although I’m not an active member in LLDM I still stay in close contact with my family and some friends who are very faithfull to the LLDM. All I wish to share with you at this time is this; both our families are very big, with all respect to your biological mother now resting, I’m sure your aware of how big all her family is, with origins from hermosa provincia in guadalajara. It is through the union of one of my siblings with one of your mothers siblings that I know you your father and so forth. I have watched you grow since your infancy into a friendly young man along with your brother, and your lovely two little sisters. I don’t know much about your new extended family!
Hopefully you can understand why I choose to remain anonymous. Anyway, enjoy your summers in tampa. Wonderful coastline you guys have out there!
May 14th, 2010 at 1:06 pm
Oscar makes a good point.
It is true that everything looks innocent now but what will happen when the members of LLDM begin to believe that the letters from the Apostle are from God and they will soon begin to worship him more then before and believe that he is God. The beliefs of LLDM is going to keep changing from the Apostle claiming to be an angel, from an angel to the same level of Jesus from that to becoming their God. This is not a jock, and I advise all the members to open their eyes and research the bible, God is not just a religion God is alive and he is here.
May 14th, 2010 at 12:25 pm
Colin,
I’m sure there’s many individuals closely watching from the sidelines everything that is being exposed here and I honestly can say with conviction, the grace of god is with you Colin. Stay strong and steady, god is with you! The word of god is defenitly reaching out to those who truly seek the truth.
As an example we have Jeziel, posting today without the advice of his personal guiding council he wrote …..
“I don’t care for this website”, yet he keeps comming back to read and would like to find out who I am.
Ay Jezielito! Your innocence gives away your true thoughts.
May 14th, 2010 at 12:05 pm
Colin,
May god bless and give you the strength to continue bringing to light the word of god to all of us and to members of LLDM. You may feel that your going in circles but your not. Just as I have been on the sidelines carefully reading all your posts so have many other here and also from LLDM. At times you remind me of exactly the way Paul encouraged timothy to remain strong and steady in the exposition of the word of the lord and defending it at all cost.
At times I’ve seen how david & (old) Frank have tried to redicule and discredit your arguments without results.
I’m pretty sure lots of people
May 14th, 2010 at 12:02 pm
Alberto,
“I’m assuming Jesus must not be your lord and master since you think so highly of yourself as your own master,”
I see this as a very apt perception of Frank. “think(ing) so highly of yourself as your own master”, is exactly what Frank (and a few others) have done here when they A) Say that they can be good enough to be saved themselves, and B) Sit in judgement on the rest of us here. I get the same perception, especially whenever attacked for simply asking them to look closer at Scripture and give a sound, logical explanation based on what the Bible itself actually says.
Frank, are you familiar with the epistle of James? James was the half-brother on the human side of the Lord Jesus Christ (Mark 6:3; Matthew 13:55; Jude 1). A younger brother who grew up in the same house as Him. He makes some very interesting statements related to the way you like to write here.
“Speak not one against another, brethren. He that speaketh against a brother, or judgeth his brother, speaketh against the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judgest the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.”(James 4:11)
In other words, “who do you think you are?” When you begin to talk like that, Frank, who do you think you are? You’re moving into the position of God.
There are 2 types of people who try to take the position of God. 1 is the sinner who says “I’m good enough to be saved.” In effect, he says “Lord, I don’t need your Salvation. You just move over, I’m gonna come up and sit on the side of you, because I am my own savior.” God says He’s the only savior, but this person says “move over, God. I wanna sit by the side of you. I can save myself.”
The 2nd kind sits in judgement on everybody else. He doesn’t judge himself, but he judges everybody else. What James is saying here is – Judgement is for God. Even God the Father says He has committed all judgement to the Son, the Lord Jesus Christ. But this person wants to say to the Lord Jesus – “you move over, I’m gonna help you.” Trying to make a supreme court to judge everybody else. But you know what James says? You judge yourself. And you go to Christ. And go in humility.
“One only is the lawgiver and judge, even he who is able to save and to destroy: but who art thou that judgest thy neighbor?”(James 4:12)
What’s the big idea buddy? Where’d you get the idea that you could sit in judgement on somebody else? What gave you the idea that you get to choose who to share the Gospel with and who not to?
If God the Father wanted us to know who He has chosen to give to the Son, He would have made those who will receive and be saved by the Gospel (of the Bible) with a big yellow stripe down their whole back side, head to tail. And if He did, well I wouldn’t be writing here. I’d be out looking for people with yellow stripes and sharing the Gospel with them. Might have been a lot easier. But God chooses those who He will reveal the Son to, not us. So we just have to share the Gospel of the Death, burial, and Resurrection of Christ with everyone and hope that their one of them, right?
I would like to hear your answer to this question, Frank: What is our source for truth? Is it one man’s thoughts/feelings of (or one group’s interpretation of) what the Bible means, or is it what the Bible itself actually says?
May 14th, 2010 at 11:49 am
Oscar,
I just want to thank you for developing this wonderfull website. Its turned into a contructive platform to compare the true word of god with the Samuel Joaquin ” LLDM doctrine. Receive my pat on the shoulder for a well done job. With out a doubt its the grace of god making its work here! Some of the other websites are filled with gossip and vulgar language. Not here though, !thank god!
May 14th, 2010 at 9:49 am
To old Frank
ABOUT MATHEW 7:1-6..DON’T JUDGE OTHERS OR CONDEMN OTHERS. JUDGMENT BELONGS TO GOD. This is also part of the teaching in this passage
MATTHEW 7:1..judge not, that you be not judged.
..2..for with what judgment you judge, you will be judged and with the measure you, it will be measured back to you.
..3..and why do you look at the speck in your brothers eye, but do not concider the speck in your own eye?
..4..or how can you say to your brother, let me remove the speck in your eye; and look, a plank in your own eye.
..5..hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye; and then you will see clearly to remove the speck in your brothers eye.
..6..do not give what is holy to the dogs. ….????
Thank you so much “OldFrank” for remininding me how blessed I am to have such a loving and mercifull lord in Jesus!
Here’s what Jesus said to a woman of Canaan whom he compared to a dog..
MATTHEW 15:24-28..
..24..But he answered and said, I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
..25..then she came and worshiped him saying, lord please help me!
..26..but he answered and said; it is not good to take the children’s bread and throw it to the dogs!
..27..and she said, yes lord, yet even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters table.
..28..then Jesus answered and said to her, O woman great is you faith! Let it be to you as you desire and her daughter was healed from that very hour.
“Old Frank”..the bread of life that comes from god is free and openly available for everyone who seeks it through the name of Jesus. It is has never been for you to decide who to give it to and to whom not. That decision has and always will be in the hands of Jesus, our Master, Lord and God!
I’m assuming Jesus must not be your lord and master since you think so highly of yourself as your own master, that you feel you can choose to whom you reveal your doctrine to!
Oh Frank, may god help you!
May 14th, 2010 at 9:39 am
Alberto please tell me who you are and I don’t care for this website I just want to know who Alberto is because he says he knows me and it annoys me not knowing him? Quien eres?
May 14th, 2010 at 9:37 am
“The old Frank”,
I find that I need to respond to your homosexual comment regarding Frank M.
“He has stated that he had homosexual relationships; he should be posting on the other blog that Oscar published about homosexual that should make him feel at home!”
Frank M. has never stated that he has had homosexual relations with anyone. What he testified to was that while he was in the church library in Guadalajara Samuel JFlores approached him and attempted to touch Frank M. in an inappropriate homosexual way and at that every moment Samuel was starting to accost Frank M. Samuel had to stop because another member entered into the area. Even if Frank M. was homosexual, this a sexual harassment because Samuel Flores is his boss!
If a homosexual came to you and touch you with out your permission and want to have sex with you would that action on the homosexual’s part make you a homosexual?
In the future I would suggest to you that you cite a person’s statement and where they posted their comments about themselves before you start to make a statement such as you did. Other wise you are gossiping, a sinful act that LLDM loves to preach about at least a half-a-dozen times a year in Sunday school.
May 14th, 2010 at 9:26 am
To old Frank
ABOUT MATHEW 7:1-6..DON’T JUDGE OTHERS OR CONDEMN OTHERS, JUDGMENT BELONGS TO GOD. This is part of Jesus’s message in this passa.
MATTHEW 7:1..judge not, that you be not judged.
..2..for with what judgment you judge, you will be judged and with the measure you, it will be measured back to you.
..3..and why do you look at the speck in your brothers eye, but do not concider the speck in your own eye?
..4..or how can you say to your brother, let me remove the speck in your eye; and look, a plank in your own eye.
..5..hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye; and then you will see clearly to remove the speck in your brothers eye.
..6..do not give what is holy to the dogs. ….????
Thank you so much “OldFrank” for remininding me how blessed I am to have such a loving and mercifull lord in Jesus!
Here’s what Jesus said to a woman of Canaan whom he compared to a dog..
MATTHEW 15:24-28..
..24..But he answered and said, I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
..25..then she came and worshiped him saying, lord please help me!
..26..but he answered and said; it is not good to take the children’s bread and throw it to the dogs!
..27..and she said, yes lord, yet even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters table.
..28..then Jesus answered and said to her, O woman great is you faith! Let it be to you as you desire and her daughter was healed from that very hour.
“Old Frank”..the bread of life that comes from god is free and available
May 13th, 2010 at 7:36 pm
Welcome back, old Frank!!
I’m a little confused about your last comment. First of all, as I recall you do not accept that Jesus is the beginning and the end as He Himself states that He is in Revelation 22.
I didn’t know we were allowed to accept the things Jesus said in the sermon on the mount which we like, but not accept who He said He is.
Who did Jesus say that He is?
“I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.”(Revelation 22:13)
Secondly, I’m a bit confused by this statement – “But I was careful as to how much of our doctrine we should let people like these know, as the bible states”
I thought your doctrine was based entirely off of the Bible? The Bible is publicly available information. Therefore, what this means is that you are careful not to let us know very many of LLDM’s interpretations of what the Bible means.
I am therefore forced to ask you also, old Frank:
What is our source for truth? SJF’s interpretations of what the Bible means, or what the Bible itself actually says?
May 13th, 2010 at 2:18 pm
Old Frank! Welcome back!
I didn’t block you, you forced me to block you for resorting to petty insults and being obnoxious. I have no idea if it was really you or if you put a 17 year old to post in your name, can you truly blame me?
A question, what do you mean by you and David being in the true Church of God? Does having a self-labeled apostle wearing Armani, vacationing in Las Vegas, and having a ranch with exotic animals make your church the “one true Church of God”? I beg to differ.
How about you, old Frank? Will you throw all other Bibles away when Samuel adds his “1,000 letters” into a reworked Bible? Well, would you? I’m sure Satan would love for you to accept such a Bible, in effect, distancing you from the Truth even further.
Welcome back, old sport.
May 13th, 2010 at 2:00 pm
Q: “Where do we congregate?”
A: We are scattered all over the western hemisphere!
Q: “Tell me Mary do they teach you that at church? To call men sinners? Not at the church where I assist.”
A: ALL men are sinners, whether you call them sinners or not is irrelevant.
I give David credit for such well crafted defense of his “apostle”. And I commend him for his knowledge of Scriptures, skewed as some of it is.
Why don’t you tell us your thoughts, David on the 1,000 letters Samuel supposedly has written. As a closed work, do you really think anything he has written will be added to the Bible? And, if by some miracle, he has written them… would you believe such a Bible? I ask because if you would, then you are accepting a different gospel and the Bible would no longer be the Bible. Please tell us your thoughts on this. Is Samuel really better than the man who is attributed to have written 2/3rds of the New Testament?
You sound very much like Frank (not Medina). I remember he broke down and resorted to personal opinions and lashing out on our person, such as saying I had “Monas”, when I have not one effigy of Christ or the Virgin Mary, nor do I have portraits or paintings. I hope you can continue to enlighten us and don’t have a breakdown like he did.
As an aside, I’m glad to see Mary and Eliv here to join us. Welcome back! I imagine Alberto is watching all this from a distance, as well. Great argument that we have in our hands.
May 13th, 2010 at 12:27 pm
where do we congregate?
Jesus is our highest priest. Not a man. we have never seen each other we are just all lead by the same holy spirit, that everyone should be lead as well and not by a sinning man.
Mary amen
Colin amen
May 13th, 2010 at 10:21 am
David,
I had a discussion with Colin, Christopher, and others in this blog a few months ago. It went on for about three months, until I became a persona non grata for Oscar’s blog and he tried to block me from posting. We picked a topic and we agreed that we will talk about who God is and who Jesus is? I am posting back because Oscar is saying that I had the same argument along the same lines, what a coincidence! He finds this to be strange, of course is the same response; you and I belong to the true church of God.
Colin is saying that I never answered some of his questions which I did, I did not answered them the way he was expecting me to answer, that in itself is another story. But I was careful as to how much of our doctrine we should let people like these know, as the bible states, Mathew 7:6 “not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces.” I apologized if this is too direct, but it is straight from the bible.
As to the character of Frank Medina who also posts as Infiltrado, as you can see he asks a lot of questions to himself, under different aliases, I have found his trail on other blogs where he has posted the same story in Spanish then here in English. He has stated that he had homosexual relationships; he should be posting on the other blog that Oscar published about homosexual that should make him feel at home! This seems to be Colin’s guidance; his so called “holy spirit” when it comes about things being done at our church, what a joke!
Frank
May 13th, 2010 at 9:22 am
Look if LLDM wants to preach Jesus just make sure it is the true Jesus according to the Bible. And preach the gospel as laid out in scripture. Don’t add to it by preaching the election of the apostle and add that to God’s saving grace. God’s grace is that He sent Jesus not that we have a living apostle.
And as far as those people who were living when the church was hidden not having the chance for salvation. Where is that in scripture and where is as God’s character. It actually contradicts scripture already written. And don’t state the whole God has mercy on whom he has mercy because that is not talking about this subject in it’s context.
May 13th, 2010 at 9:04 am
Eliv,
You are right there is some kind ladder to get to Heaven in LLDM. You first need to believe in God, Jesus , and His apostle. But the bible says Jesus is the only mediator. Samuel J. is taught that he is also a mediator. it is unbiblical!
May 13th, 2010 at 8:57 am
David,
First of all I don’t have to ask him myself if he is a sinner. You could have answered that by stating yes according to the bible he is. I however think you have a hard time getting those words out of your mouth. In any case we all are. As far as calling men sinners, again i was making a point but it shouldn’t bother you because that is our depravity as humans and why we need Jesus anyways. Does that offend you? It was not meant to.
I didn’t say that I was God or that you have to confess to me your sins anywhere. Colin is right you don’t want to answer the questions but make comments.
And yes David you did say the chapter talked about Jesus but you are wrong to apply it to Samuel or the other apostles.
You said that Jesus is God but there is a God that is greater than Him? So Jesus is a God but not God? Like the Jehovah W. believe. maybe I am confused on who you say Jesus is. I will let you define that again. And you still don’t want to answer certain questions…..?
May 12th, 2010 at 11:06 pm
Hey David, in the body of Christ all men are sinners. The Bible even says so (Romans 3:23), so therefore in God’s church “All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.”(Romans 3:23). You must not be assisting in the true church of the Living God if that’s the case.
David, you now seem more interested in finding out where all of us are located than you are in answering our questions. Should we be concerned?
Beloved members of LLDM, grace and peace to all of you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Please understand where I come from. SJF and LLDM are propagating something which was first claimed by Eusebio Gonzalez in 1926. Now, what he claims is not written in the Bible, but it is a claim related to what Jesus spoke in that he claims he was chosen to restore a church that was founded by the Lord Himself 2,000 years ago.
This is a concept entirely new to me, because from my prayerful study of the Bible, what I understand is that the Lord Jesus Christ Himself will be the One to restore everything. But this man says no, he will restore it. OK.
Now, I am in the position where I am faced with the task of determining if this man’s claim is true, or if he is just another Adam Smith or Charles Taze Russell. So, how am I to determine if it is true?
I wouldn’t be able to know whether or not His claim is true, unless I had a source for determining truth. As a Christian, my source for truth is the Bible. So, the easiest way to know if it’s true is to consider this – Is the Jesus who he is restoring this church for the same Jesus of the Bible? I mean someone could make a golden calf and put a “Jesus” name tag on it, but that doesn’t mean it’s the real Jesus, right? Naturally the question to ask is – who do you say Jesus is?
David, Lluvia, or anyone else, correct me if this is not the case, but according to LLDM, the answer would be this:
Jesus of LLDM:
“the Spirit of God, the Word, came down to earth and entered into the body of man named Jesus at the time of his baptism by John the Baptist. At his birth, a baby was born such as Moses. One destined to serve God, but not God in the flesh. Just a man, and this man’s name was Jesus.”
OK, now I would have to compare this myself to the Jesus of the Bible.
If the Bible is our source of truth, then we cannot lean on our own knowledge, or wisdom, or feelings about what it means to understand it. We cannot trust SJF’s interpretations of it as our source of truth.
We can only stand on the great truths as they are written in the context of the whole Bible. So, let’s compare the Jesus of the Bible, and the Jesus of LLDM.
In the book of John, there are certain things that characterize John’s Gospel, and they emphasize the content. John was the last Apostle to die, and before he departed, he wrote the final words about the Lord Jesus from a different aspect than any of the other 3 Gospels that had been written.
Matthew focused on Jesus as the Christ – the promised Messiah who fulfills all the prophecies of the Old Testament.
Mark focused on Jesus in His servanthood, perfectly submitting to the will of the Father.
Luke focused on the humanity of Jesus, how He took our human weaknesses and flaws upon Himself.
It’s highly possible, and probably very likely, that John wrote his Gospel after receiving the Revelation of Jesus Christ. As the last surviving Apostle of Jesus Christ, he knows that this will be the final eyewitness account and recorded history of the Lord Jesus’ life on this earth. Moved by the Holy Spirit, John is compelled to write about the life of Christ on earth from a different aspect altogether, and John focuses on His Deity.
John’s Gospel from beginning to end emphasizes this fact about Jesus Christ – He is God incarnate. God manifest in the flesh. He is absolutely and totally God in human flesh – fully God, and fully man.
In chapter 1, Jesus is called the Word (Greek “logos”). That is not explained by Greek philosophy, but by the Hebrew tetragram “YHWH” (”Jehovah,” many people say). He is Jehovah. Now, John begins his Gospel with this statement:
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.”(John 1:1-3)
There are actually 4 great, earth-shaking statements made here in the first 3 verses.
1 – “In the beginning was the Word,” And here, the Word is the Lord Jesus Christ. And the “beginning” mentioned here is the same “beginning” that is mentioned in Genesis. It goes back to the creation of the physical universe, which no one can accurately date. We just don’t honestly know how long the universe has been here, and everything science will tell you about the age of the universe – it’s just some man’s hypothesis. My thought is this on that – give it enough time, and science will catch up to the Bible. But we don’t know how long the universe has been here.
After all, we have a God of eternity. What do you thing He’s been doing in the past? Waiting for you and me and SJF to come around? He hasn’t been waiting around for us.
As far as exactly when in the past this universe started, we don’t know, but it’s been here a long time. All we know about the beginning is what is written in the totality of the Bible, and that includes this – “In the beginning was the Word,” Now, the interesting thing here about the beginning that’s mentioned – it’s already past tense. Continued action is the imperfect form that’s used here – “In the beginning WAS the Word.” So, whenever you want to say the universe began is not important. Wherever you date the beginning of the universe – that’s where the Lord Jesus comes out to meet you and He is already past tense. “In the beginning WAS the Word,” so this is a beginning that is not a beginning at all. It’s a beginning that you and I can go to and play the guessing game called “when?” – but whenever our guess falls – the Lord Jesus Christ is already past tense. He’s the Ancient of Days and His hair is as white as snow.
“In the beginning WAS the Word.” To determine the exact meaning of this is not really that easy. Obviously, The Lord Jesus Christ is not the “logos” of Greek philosophy. But rather He is the “memra” of Hebrew Scriptures – the Word of God. This is the One who is the Word. And gathering up everything that was said about Him in the Old Testament – He is now presented as the One in the beginning. This beginning pre-dates the very first words in the Bible. We’re dealing with a God of eternity so when we read “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth”(Genesis 1:1) – “the beginning” that’s mentioned is the beginning of our physical universe. It is not God’s beginning. He was already there before that, and that is exactly the same way it’s used in John 1 – “In the beginning was the Word.” Not “is” the Word, it WAS in the beginning. “Was” is a durative imperfect, and the meaning is it’s continued action. It means that the Word WAS in the beginning. What beginning? When? Well, just as far back as you wanna go – the Bible says “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.” Did that begin God? No. Before creation – He already WAS.
He comes out of eternity to meet us. He did not begin, “in the beginning WAS the Word.” He was already there when the beginning was, He’s already past tense! “In the beginning WAS the Word,” – just 5 words, but very profound. And there is not a man on the topside of this earth who can put a date on it or even really fathom it at all. This 1st tremendous statement starts us off way out in space, you see?
The 2nd statement is this: “and the Word was with God,” – This makes it abundantly clear that He is distinct from God the Father. We cannot identify Jesus as God the Father, because He was WITH God.
Now right here, our human understanding would tell us “well, if He’s with God, then He is not God.” But John was guided by the Holy Spirit,
and the 3rd statement he makes immediately set us straight on that:
“and the Word was God.” This is a clear and emphatic declaration that the Lord Jesus Christ is God. In fact, in the original Greek language this was written in it’s even moore specific than this. In the Greek, the important word is placed at the beginning of the sentence, and translated literally it reads “God was the Word.” And my friend that is emphatic, you can’t get any more emphatic than that.
You wanna get rid of the Deity of Jesus Christ? My friend you cannot get rid of it – the first 3 statements in the Gospel of John tie the thing down. “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”
Now will you notice:
“The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.”(John 1:2-3)
He’s the Creator also. “All things were made by Him” – Jesus is the creator. Now John continues:
“In him was life; and the life was the light of men.”(John 1:4)
Now In Him was life! That doesn’t mean He was alive, although that’s true, but there was LIFE in Him! You see, men need life because they are dead in trespasses and sin. Paul said “As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins,”(Ephesians 2:1). You see, what men need today is life.
“In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.”(John 1:4-5).
Jesus is light! And now notice, Jesus is now contrasted with John the Baptist:
“There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.(John 1:6) – This is John the Baptist. John the Baptist bore witness to the light, but he was not the light he just bore witness to the light.
“The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.”(John 1:7-8)
Now notice what Apostle John says next:
“That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.”(John 1:9)
This is also a tremendous statement. You see, light comes through the Word of God. Without the Word of God, there is no light. When you come to read the Bible – you are in the light! What light? The light of the Word of God:
“That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.”
“every man that cometh into the world” – that is, any man who comes into the light, just like the sun. It lights every man that comes into the sunlight. Those way down in the caves of the earth, it doesn’t light them, they have to come to the light.
Now it says:
“He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.”(John 1:10)
That is the tragedy of the world. The creator came down to this earth, and He took upon Himself our humanity. And yet, the world didn’t know Him. The world rejects Him to this very day because everybody wants to create their own version of Jesus and slap a “Jesus” name tag on it. The Jesus of the Bible tragically came into the very world that was created through Him, and the world did not recognize Him.
“He came unto his own, and his own received him not.”(John 1:11)
A lot of people consider “his own” here to mean his own race – the Nation Israel, and that thought carries them to the idea of replacement theology (that the church is to replace Israel in God’s plan). But in the context of chapter 1, it can be expanded out. This is His world, because as John mentioned previously He created it. He came into His own world and His own world did not recognize or receive Him. It’s a universal rejection. But notice:
“But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:”(John 1:12)
Life therefore is received by the new birth. John says “even to them that believe on His name,” so it comes by faith.
“Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.”(John 1:13)
The life that is received by the New Birth comes by faith in Christ. By faith in Christ, we are born “not of blood,” that is natural generation. And it’s not “of the will of the flesh,” which means you don’t become a child of God by your own self effort – something you do, your good works. “nor of the will of man,” – that’s education and training. You don’t become a child of God by training, you become a child of God by being born again. Because it says “”Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.” – it’s the direct action of the Holy Spirit.
Now, in the first 3 verses we had 4 remarkable statements about Christ. In verse 14, there are 3 more remarkable statements.
“And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.”(John 1:14)
“The Word was made flesh,” – I want you to look at that for just a moment. A great philosopher might go for verse 1, but would not accept this because they could never accept the fact that “the Word was made flesh.” The Greek language here also allows us to see this more specifically. The Literal Greek reads “The Word was born flesh.”
Now turn this over in your mind for a moment. Here comes God out of eternity. He’s already the Ancient of Days. But He also came to Bethlehem.
“They were looking for a king to lift them high, He came a little baby thing that made a woman cry” – George McDonough.
Notice that John’s Gospel does not even mention His birth in Bethlehem or His childhood. Why? John’s talking about One who is too big for Bethlehem. He comes out of eternity, and He takes upon Himself our humanity. “The Word was made flesh” (Lit. Greek: “The Word was born flesh”). This is the only Christmas story that’s contained in John’s Gospel, it’s very important to see that. He was born flesh, and the only way it could take place was by the virgin birth, see? The writer to the Hebrews says “For surely it is not angels he helps, but Abraham’s descendants.”(Hebrews 2:16).
He took part of flesh and blood, so that through death, He could destroy the One who has the power of death – that is, the devil.
Christ’s birth is similar to the new birth of believers which John mentioned in verse 13. He was born “not of blood,” He was not born in a human way, or by human effort “the will of the flesh,” nor by the will of man – but He was born of God. “The Word was made flesh” What a statement! “The Word was made flesh” – That is the Christmas story, He was born flesh.
“For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.”(Isaiah 9:6)
A little child was born in Bethlehem, but the Son came out of eternity “The Word was born flesh,”
The 2nd statement is: “and dwelt among us.” The Word dwelt among us! The word for ‘dwelt’ here is the Greek word “skineo” which means to pitch a tent. Our human bodies here are just little tents in which we live. And they’re just as frail as a tent, my friend. The Apostle Paul used the same imagery as John, he says “Now we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands.”(2 Corinthians 5:1).
This body we live in is just a tabernacle – it’s a little tent, a little wind could blow it over in a night. It could be snuffed out in an instant, because you and I live in these little tents. The God of eternity came down to this earth and took upon Himself a human body. He pitched His tent here among us, and that is the 2nd tremendous statement here.
The 3rd – “(and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.” – Notice there is first a parenthetical statement (a statement like this in parenthesis). When reading, we know that a parenthetical statement is always an add on – meaning you do consider the parenthetical statement, but you don’t let it screw up the flow of the sentence. Therefore the emphasis is on this – He was full of grace and truth! His glory is emphasized, but the parenthesis – the part John considers less critical to the information presented is that he was there when it happened. John understands that He needs Christ, Christ does not need Him. John merely had the privilege of beholding His glory firsthand. “The glory as of the only begotten of the Father” – remember that Paul made it clear He was “begotten” when the Father raised Him from the dead. He is the only One that has been raised by the Father immortal – never to die again. And He was FULL of grace and truth.
Again, by now our human reasoning would have kicked in and said “well, if He was born flesh He sure limited Himself.” Guided by the Holy Spirit, John sets us straight on that – he says wait a minute! He was FULL of grace and truth. The word ‘full’ means that you just cannot possibly have any more. He brought all the Deity with Him – He was FULL of grace and truth when He came down here. And John the Baptist now bears witness of Him:
“John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.
And of his fullness have all we received, and grace for grace.”(John 1:15-16) – It’s out of the fullness of Christ, the ‘pluroma’ of Christ.
A few of the disciples of SJF have made the claim that “the Word” in verse 1 is not a reference to Jesus Christ. Up to this point, John has been a little mysterious with his writing. So to clear the thing up and show that The Lord Jesus Christ is the Word of which He is speaking, He nails that down right here:
“For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.”(John 1:17)
Jesus Christ. This is the One we are talking about. He came out of eternity, and took upon Himself our humanity without surrendering any of the substance of His Deity because He was full of grace and truth.
Now, I want to just jump back for a moment:
“John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.”(John 1:15)
John the Apostle tells us what John the Baptist said about Jesus Christ. In plain english, He said “He’s the One I was telling you about. He comes after me but He’s preferred before me, because He WAS before me.” In Luke’s Gospel we learn that John the Baptist was born 6 months before Jesus, so how can he have been before? John is witnessing to what the Apostle John started His gospel with – Jesus pre-existed, He was past tense whenever the universe began. 2,000 years ago, He stepped out of eternity and came down to this earth and took upon Himself our humanity.
Amen.
So, if I am using the Bible as the source for truth, then there’s only one conclusion I can draw. The description of Jesus from LLDM and the description of Jesus in the Bible are not the same. So it must not have been the same Jesus who told Aaron to restore the church, probably a demon spirit with a “Jesus” name tag on.
The Jesus of the Bible – the Christ, will restore all things Himself.
May 12th, 2010 at 9:10 pm
by the way where do each of you congregate?
May 12th, 2010 at 8:55 pm
To question ones integrity with God? I thought we confess to the Lord or sins. Mary are you God?
May 12th, 2010 at 8:43 pm
Yes Mary the chapter talks about Jesus that is exactly what I said. Does Samuel J. Sin? That is a question you might want to ask him… Tell me Mary do they teach you that at church? To call men sinners? Not at the church where I assist.
May 12th, 2010 at 8:37 pm
David,
So Jesus is son of God, right? and he is not God?
Is JESUS then HALF A GOD?
And as far as I understand LLDM doctrine: person can get to God through believing in Jesus Crist, but to get to Jesus you need to believe in apostol. Weird hierarhy in heavens
May 12th, 2010 at 5:16 pm
David,
I do not believe that Jesus is the Father. But anyways you are wrong read the whole chapter. It is specifically talking about Jesus and Him alone. read every word David. The apostles are not the bread of life. Don’t take it out of context and try to apply it to another verse. Jesus was sent to die for our sins. No other apostle was sent to die for our sins. Again read 1 corinthians 3. are you avoiding it. And study revelation because this book is exactly what it says the Revelation of Jesus Christ. and you will see where the teaching of the church being hidden is not the church. Another question does samuel J. sin?
May 12th, 2010 at 5:10 pm
Hey David,
There are several other questions you haven’t been able to answer. For instance: where do Paul or any of the Biblical apostles ever say that we need to believe they are apostles for Salvation?
When they state they are apostles, they merely state it as fact, they never said that believing in their apostleship is necessary for Salvation.
If we are being intellectually honest, and basing our truth on the Bible, it’s a lie that God only sent Moses to free the Israelites.
Moses was not sent as one man before Pharaoh. God sent Moses and his brother Aaron before Pharaoh, so that is an invalid and untrue defense based on the Bible.
Also, if we are being intellectually honest – that was not my question.
This was my question: If Samuel were to make the same mistake as the Apostle Peter and separate himself from the Gentiles, then who would have the authority to rebuke Samuel in the same way Paul rebuked the Apostle Peter?
“Now when Peter had come to Antioch, I withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed; for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision. And the rest of the Jews also played the hypocrite with him, so that even Barnabas was carried away with their hypocrisy.
But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before them all, “If you, being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you compel Gentiles to live as Jews? We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.”(Galatians 2:11-16)
Now you keep saying that Samuel was sent by God. But respectfully, I do not base truth on what you say. The Bible does not say anything about Samuel Joaquin. The Bible says that Jesus sent His Apostles, but where does the Bible say that SJF is one of the apostles He sent?
Let’s be intellectually honest, David – the source of the claim that Samuel was sent by Jesus Christ is not the Bible, the source is the claim of a mortal man. Therefore, the only way that we could conclude that it is true is if our source of truth is the words of Samuel Joaquin Flores.
I thought our source of truth was the context of what the Bible itself actually says?
Let’s be intellectually honest David – If the Bible is our only source of truth, where does the Bible say that the church would need to be restored?
If the Bible is our only source of truth, then it’s clear that God’s grace and mercy through Jesus Christ was to continue even after the Apostles had died.
“For I am already being poured out like a drink offering, and the time has come for my departure. I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day—and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing.”(2 Timothy 4:6-8)
“I think it is right to refresh your memory as long as I live in the tent of this body, because I know that I will soon put it aside, as our Lord Jesus Christ has made clear to me. And I will make every effort to see that after my departure you will always be able to remember these things.
We did not follow cleverly invented stories when we told you about the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty.”(2 Peter 1:13-16)
The Epistle of Jude bears witness to the 1st century Christian conviction that the days of the apostles and of gospel revelations were foundational and not ongoing. Jude speaks of “the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints” (Jude 3). The expression “once for all” clearly indicates that the “delivery” of the faith is complete, so we should not look for a new revelation. The new teachings of certain persons (Eusebio Gonzales and his son Samuel for example) are to be condemned for this very reason.
“For certain men who were marked out for condemnation long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.”(Jude 4)
The way to avoid the trap of heresy, Jude says, is to “remember the words that were spoken beforehand by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ” (Jude 17). FYI, when Jude wrote his epistle, the only apostle remaining alive was John. All of the apostles at this point were either a phenomenon of the past or fast becoming so.
The Apostle Peter also made it clear that he thought the apostolic period was ending in his day. The epistle of 2 Peter appears to have been written by Peter as he awaited martyrdom. In this epistle, he does not urge his readers to look to the next apostle or apostles for leadership, but rather to simply REMEMBER the apostolic message after he is gone.
“So I will always remind you of these things, even though you know them and are firmly established in the truth you now have. I think it is right to refresh your memory as long as I live in the tent of this body, because I know that I will soon put it aside, as our Lord Jesus Christ has made clear to me. And I will make every effort to see that after my departure you will always be able to remember these things.”(2 Peter 1:12-15)
Just like Jude, Peter also warns of false teachers who will take advantage of the lack of apostolic presence, and “secretly introduce destructive heresies” (2 Peter 2:1). The solution? Peter says it is to “remember the words spoken beforehand by the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior spoken by your apostles”(2 Peter 3:2). They are to seek diligently to follow the teachings of the apostles, particularly Paul, despite the fact that he is often twisted and misinterpreted by “the untaught and unstable”(2 Peter 3:14-16). Therefore, Peter did not look for the continuation of apostolic authority, but rather for the church to follow what the departing apostles had already taught. Like Jude, Peter does not say “listen to the apostles living today”(like LLDM says), but instead urges “Remember what the apostles said.”
According to the Apostle Peter, and Jude who was a half brother of the Lord Jesus Christ, the way to guard ourselves from false teaching is to REMEMBER what the Apostles said. It is NOT to listen to men today who say they are apostles.
But LLDM says I must listen to Samuel today because he says he is an apostle.
Intellectual honesty now David – what should I believe more – the words written in the Bible by the Biblical Apostles and disciples of Jesus Christ somewhere between 60 and 90 AD? Or the words that were first said by a man in 1926?
May 12th, 2010 at 4:36 pm
Colin, I will get to your questions in a bit, making a run to the store but just so you know I am not avoiding your questions I will answer the first….
Then explain to me how LLDM is the restoration of the primitive church if you only have 1 apostle?
1 apostle?
Well how many apostles does the Lord need in order to restore his church?
This sounds like a question my pastor was asked one time. The question was, how is it possible that being such a big church and so many people in the world that God sends only 1 apostle. His answer was “your right, how could God only send 1 apostle to preach to all the world, what was he thinking…. How could God send only one man (Moses) to deliver such a great people from Egypt? How could he send only 1 Son to save the entire world…
See where this leads? Question what God wants to and has done.