La Luz Del Mundo: A Church Founded on Lies
I find it painful and rather bothersome how masses can be brainwashed with lies and deceit, how some twisted individuals take advantage of people’s genuine faith in God by making them believe they are messiahs. I grow weary of false prophets and religious establishments founded on lies. You, as the reader, tell me: is it right for Christianity to be spread if the church’s foundation is based on lies? Personally, I think Christianity can spread with integrity, slowly but surely, without false prophets starting churches at every corner.
There is this particular church in mind called La Luz del Mundo, which translates directly to English as The Light of the World. It is a Christian denomination church headquartered in my father’s hometown of Guadalajara, Jalisco in Mexico. The church claims to be the largest non-Catholic Church in all of Latin America, and its main church, in Guadalajara, can accommodate approximately 12,000 worshipers. The Light of the World has about 5 million members in about 40 countries. All this information is all good and all, the problem lies in its foundation.
My father and his family have long tidings with this church, as most of his siblings and his parents (my grandparents) belonged or continue to belong to this church. He knows the inner workings of the church from close range and saw things that made him refuse to be a member of it. Needless to say, my father is the most ethical man I know, and if he saw wrong, then there was something wrong. He was enveloped in this church practically since birth. Since he is not a member of the church, his own siblings turned their back on him, preferring their religious brothers and sisters than their own blood. They never call to even say hello. My grandparents on my Dad’s side were never like that. Heck, my grandfather was eventually disillusioned and refused the position of pastor in his later years. An uncle, one that is not a member of this church, recently told me this about The Light of the World : “Those people are disrespectful and hypocrites”.
The church was started by a man named Aaron Joaquin Gonzales who (like Paul who encountered Jesus on the road to Damascus and was instructed to go as an apostle to the gentiles) was also called on as an apostle in 1926 in Monterrey, Mexico. This made him apostle #14, after Paul and the twelve original apostles. Aaron Joaquin Gonzales thus began to preach this new church and began to have many followers by making them believe he was “appointed” by God himself to “restore the church of Jesus Christ”. Like many churches, this church is no different in that it has evolved into a money-hungry establishment. Aaron Joaquin was revered as a deity, God on earth mentality by his followers. He passed away on June 9, 1964, and as it is common, his son, Samuel Joaquin Flores, took control of the church afterwards. It has been this man who has expanded The Light of the World to its current state and continues to serve as the director of the church. Here is the catch: He is also an apostle, on the same terms as Paul, Thomas, Peter, and the others! He is apostle #15, after his father of course, and according to his 5 million followers. I have never heard of an apostle passing down the powers of apostleship to his son but it happened here.
The only good thing I see about this church is that it introduces people to Christ and the Bible. That is the only thing. People are bred into the church and arranged marriages are not uncommon. Every year, on August 14, wherever people of the congregation may be, they must travel to Guadalajara to pay homage to the apostle of Jesus Christ. It used to be that people would kiss his hand and place their tithe in a large jar next to him. Nowadays, it is no longer required to kiss his hand. Samuel Joaquin is, of course, filthy rich. Brainwashing ignorant masses can make you so, tax free. It will be very interesting to see if they were the 14th and 15th apostles in reality. 
987 Responses to “La Luz Del Mundo: A Church Founded on Lies”
Pages: [10] 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 » Show All
Pages: [10] 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 » Show All
March 10th, 2010 at 7:20 pm
“and JEsus is the way to salvation but through his apostle.
go to church so u can learn and think before u speak.”
If Jesus is the only way to salvation why do we need this apostle then?
March 10th, 2010 at 11:41 am
Everybody who reads this,
I am as many know a member of the LLDM church and let me tell you, I am proud I have believed what I have believed and I can say that this man of God, Samuel Joaquin Flores is a MAN OF GOD. I feel like that blind man who jesus opened his eyes and the Fariseos were intgregating him and he said unto them “The man answered, ‘Why, this is an amazing thing! You do not know where he comes from, and yet he opened my eyes.’ ” This Apostol of Jesuscrist has opened my eyes and I want to say unto him that I am at his side. No matter what you say or anybody says. You might as, if this man is a man of God then why hasn’t got manifest that he has sent him” He has but all that don’t believe have been to blind to realize. I hope God opens thy eyes and help you all to know the truth. God bless each one of you and help you and Oscar do realize that what you are doing (putting up this website) is wrong and is blasfemy because you do not know Samuel Joaquin so there is no right for you to rise a false testiment against him.
March 10th, 2010 at 11:17 am
Having been very close to Samuel Joaquín Flores and his clique of “aides”, I wouldn’t be surprised if I found that he is the owner of this website:
http://www.reserveaspotinheaven.com/
But just to diversify the options, there is another:
http://www.reserveaspotinhell.com/
Since he is in the business of pleasing every one but God!
What do you think?
March 5th, 2010 at 12:42 pm
OPEN UR brains. we dont worship SAMUEL J.FLORES we honor him.
and JEsus is the way to salvation but through his apostle.
go to church so u can learn and think before u speak.
ur all close minded and i know ur gunna wish on the final day that u would be part of LLDM.
god help u
March 4th, 2010 at 10:34 am
Coline – regarding your “personal note” you have come to see the true bottom line of it all. We of ourselves can do nothing! We are just the messengers. All things work for the Lord according to His good will.
And although we pray for them, I my self have come to pray and converse with the Lord and His Holy Spirit for more strenght to have peace in Him about this tragic situation of the lost ones of LLDM.
I have to say it has been wonderful over the past number of months to see how your own personal relationship with the Lord Jesus has grown and of your continued trusting on him and his plan for all things.
The most Important aspect of our Christian life is our personal one-on-one relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ for with out that we have nothing.
I too can absoultly say with out a shadow of a doubt that my personal relationship with my Lord and Master Jesus and the Spiritual Knowledge of the Father have grown in ways that I never thought possible and it all because I have been in close contact with LLDM.
In the Army, training will teach one to be a soldier – but it is in field of battle that a soldier is made, and so it is with us in this battle field of the war against the spirit of the antichrist.
All blessing’s to you through the Lord our God Jesus Christ.
March 4th, 2010 at 2:00 am
God’s blessings to all of you in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
I would like to continue going through the book of Revelation with all of you. Any LLDM members reading this, please look up all Scripture references for yourselves and do as Paul commended the Bereans for “study the Scriptures daily”, and see for yourself what is true.
Individually going through the letters to the 7 churches, we come now to the church in Smyrna – the martyr church, the church that died for Him.
Dictating to John His words to the church, the Lord Jesus Christ says this:
“”To the angel of the church in Smyrna write:
These are the words of him who is the First and the Last, who died and came to life again.”(Revelation 2:8) – “Smyrna” is the word we get the word “myrrh” from. It actually means suffering. This city is still in existence today (Modern day Izmir, Turkey). The Turkish name may lead you astray, but it is the same city. It has had continuous occupation since the time it was founded and that’s a long ways back. It’s a very commercial city today. If it’s not already, it will eventually be greater in population that Istanbul, and it’s already a larger commercial center. Because of that, and because of the large population there, it covers up most of the ruins of the ancient city. The ancient city of Smyrna was a beautiful city, a center of science and medicine, and conveniently always on the winner’s side in Roman wars. The city has a very beautiful harbor even today, and is one of the loveliest cities in Asia. It’s called a flower, a crown, an ornament, and the crown of all Asia. The acropolis is Mount Pagas. The early city goes all the way back to about 2,000 B.C., when it was a Hittite city. At that time, the city was around the slope of Mount Pagas. Later on, Alexander the Great had a lot to do with the building of the city. This beautiful city had wide boulevards along the slope of Mount Pagas, then on top of the mountain was the city. It was called the crowning city because it had a row of flowers and a hedge all the way around, and myrtle trees that went all the way around the city. It was adorned with beautiful temples and noble buildings. The temples of Zeus, Cybil (Cybil was actually Diana), and of Aphrodite, Apollo, and other pagan gods were there. And Izmir, even back then had a theater and a music center, it was the home of music. And there was a stadium there (The very stadium where 86 year old Polycarp, pastor of the church in Smyrna and a student of John the Apostle, was burned alive in 155 A.D.). In Christian literature, Smyrna means suffering. It is one of the few cities that is still in existence today, having continuous habitation from the very beginning.
This church, and the one in Philadelphia, are the 2 the Lord Jesus has no word of condemnation for, these are the only 2 of the churches mentioned here that to this day have had continuous existence. None of the others mentioned here are still around. Their lampstands have really been burning and the others have been moved. Today in Smyrna (Izmir), there are a few “underground” Christians despite continued persecution in that area. They’re undercover. From what I’ve learned, there are no Christians in Ephesus today, which is now primarily a Muslim Turkish town. In Izmir, there are a few and they have made indirect contact with some missionaries who have been to this area, but they do not want to come out in the open because Christians are commonly persecuted over there even today in Turkey.
There’s a lot to say about this city, but notice also in verse 8, the repeated mechanics (from the letter to the church in Ephesus) of the format the Lord Jesus uses in writing. This church covers a period from about 100 A.D. to approximately 314 A.D., from the death of John the Apostle to the edict of toleration by Constantine which was given in 313 A.D. This decree ended (to a great extent) the persecution of Christians by making it illegal not only in Smyrna but throughout the whole Roman Empire, especially Rome. Historically, we find that the leaders of the church were first killed at the beginning.
“”To the angel of the church in Smyrna write:
These are the words of him who is the First and the Last, who died and came to life again.”(Rev. 2:8) – This is His briefest message to any of the 7 churches, and it is ALL commendatory, every word is good. And notice as I mentioned the mechanics – the Lord Jesus will reach back and take out of that vision from chapter 1 – the Glorified Christ as our Great High Priest in the midst of the lampstands – He’ll reach back and take out 1 of the things that is said about Him, and one of the descriptions from chapter 1 to address each church, and I think each has a particular reference to the church. Here, He chooses “the First and the Last, who died and came to life again.” First and the Last means there was nothing before Him and there’s nothing to follow Him. He has the final disposition of ALL things. He is the one in charge, and the persecuted believers needed to know that. He is the One in charge, and it is the plan and purpose of God (their suffering). He says “who died and came to life again.” The NKJV translates this as “who became dead and lived.” – That has a real message for martyrs. It speaks of the death and Resurrection of Christ, and His experience with death identified Him with the 5 millions who were martyred during this period. He was triumphant over death and is able to save to the uttermost those who are enduring persecution and martyrdom.
Now the Lord Jesus has something else to say to them here:
“I know your afflictions and your poverty—yet you are rich! I know the slander of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan. Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes will not be hurt at all by the second death.”(Revelation 2:9-11)
1st He says “I know your afflictions and your poverty—yet you are rich! I know the slander of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan. Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life.”(2:9-10) – there are 7 things He says to this church, and these are the things the Lord commended in the church. #1 He mentions “afflictions” (tribulation). We need to understand, this is not the Great Tribulation, it’s trouble. And since the awful persecution of the church by the Roman Emperors is not called the Great Tribulation, surely our small, little suffering today is not called the Great Tribulation either. They were suffering for Christ. #2 – He commends them for their poverty. He denotes their lack of material possessions. The early church was made up largely of poorer classes. When the wealthy man believed, his property was confiscated because of his faith. He says “Yet you are rich!”, and this denotes the spiritual wealth of the church, blessed with all spiritual blessings. Notice the contrast here with the church in Laodicea (Revelation 3); the church in Laodicea was rich, but our Lord said you’re really poor and you don’t know it. I find it rather amusing all the mega churches and the groups like LLDM who are always soliciting money for their leader, and all these churches who speak and brag about millionaires, or prominent and rich people who are a part of their church. The early church, this persecuted martyr church, couldn’t brag about that. They had a church made up of slaves, ex-slaves, runaway slaves, freed slaves, and poor people. Not any in the church were rich, either in the pulpit or in the congregation, and not many even had any property. He also says there were “those who say they are Jews and are not”, Jews outwardly, possibly blood descendants of Abraham, but not true Jews. Actually, there has only been a remnant down through the years of Jews who truly were Jews, only a very few of these people who were truly God’s people. Paul says not all Israel is Israel (Romans 9). The thing that makes the Jew a Jew, and actually what makes him a part of the nation Israel, is his faith. That is the thing that identifies and separates him. Actually, he was a Syrian, that’s what the Lord’s Word said about him “A Syrian ready to perish was my father” (Deuteronomy 26:5). That’s the picture of him, that was his nationality, that’s what he was racially. But now, they had denied their faith in the OT Scriptures, and though they might say they’re Jews, they’re not. (flashes of the menorah adorning all LLDM temples goes through my mind). Actually, when a Jew gives up his religion, there’s a question as to whether he’s a Jew anymore or not, there have been court cases over this and many tried to do this in Germany during WW2, BTW. Smyrna was a cultured city in which many Jews had discarded their beliefs in the Old Testament. It was a very wealthy city from the beginning and it still is today. 4th thing He says “do not fear” – this is the encouragement of the Lord to His own in the midst of persecution! This is the 2nd time in this book the Lord has offered this encouragement. History tells us that multitudes went to their deaths singing praises to God! 5th thing He says “the devil”(same person as satan, lucifer, etc. – we’ll get a look at this fearful creature later on in this book), But Christ labels him as being responsible for the suffering of the saints. We tend to blame the immediate person or circumstance that serves merely as satan’s tool, but the Lord Jesus goes back to the root trouble.
The 6th thing He mentions, and I want to go into a lot of detail on this, He says “you’ll have tribulation for 10 days”. There were historically 10 intense periods of persecution by 10 different Roman Emperors. 1st – Nero (64-68 A.D.) – Paul was beheaded under his reign.
then – Domitian (95-96 A.D.) – he was much worse than Nero, John was exiled during this period. Then came Trajan (104 – 117 A.D) – Ignaceus was burned at the stake by him.
Then Marcus Aurelius (151 – 180 A.D.) – Polycarp was martyred during this period. He was followed by Emperors Severus, Maximinius, Decius, Valerian, Aurelian…
then finally Diocletian (303 – 313 A.D.) – he was the worst emperor of all.
These 10 Roman Emperors led in an awful persecution of Christians.
The 7th thing He mentions to this church – they were to be faithful to the point of death – that means they were martyred. Now He says He’ll give them a crown of life – this is a special crown for those who suffer. I find it quite interesting that the Lord has special crowns, and I know some wonderful saints who are going to get that crown some day.
James said this in his epistle “Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him”(James 1:12). That crown of life means you’re really going to live it up some day.
Now He says:
“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes will not be hurt at all by the second death.”(Revelation 2:11) – He always says that; Do you hear Him? Is He speaking to you? He says “He who overcomes will not be hurt at all by the 2nd death”.
“If you’re only born once, you’re going to die twice, but if you’re born twice, you’ll only die once” – DL Moody.
And if you’re born again, you may not even have to die that one time (that is if the Lord returns first). The 2nd death is the death that no genuine believer will experience. The 1st death concerns the body, the 2nd death concerns the soul and spirit – eternal separation from God, that’s what it means, but no genuine believer will have to undergo that.
I’m not making this up, friends, this is what the Bible teaches, but don’t believe me, I invite you to read the Bible for yourself and see.
And…
“Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts
as you did in the rebellion.”(Hebrews 3:15)
I will comment on the letter to the church in Pergamum next time – the compromising church.
God bless all of you! Time for sleep now
March 3rd, 2010 at 10:36 pm
On a personal note, Christopher, I’ve recently come to realize…well, I guess actually came to have reinforced stronger what I already knew – that we cannot get anyone to believe the truth. Sometimes I would witness to members, and I would think “I prayed before I came and started this, I asked for His help, why are they still put off by the truth so strongly, and still so offended by simple questions?”
It’s been almost a year since I first came to know LLDM and their doctrines of the “apostle”, and what I feel now is excitement more than ever before about witnessing. This site, as well as my numerous interactions with LLDM have caused me to study the Word of God myself more than ever before, and I am learning from those here and especially from the Holy Spirit more than ever. But the real reason I’m excited is because I now see the bigger picture, and as far as LLDM – God is doing something. He is working something out, and He is setting the stage for something huge, and if He wants to include me as part of that, being available for Him to use as He wills is the biggest thrill of all.
God bless you and keep up the good work!
March 3rd, 2010 at 10:25 pm
Amen, Christopher.
I think I can speak for many here when I say that many of our very close friends and family are those who are following the false gospel of Samuel Joaquin.
Many will be turned to the truth before the Lord returns in the air to gather up His church, and after the church is gathered to Him, things on earth get really bad but many more will be set free by the truth. The bittersweet caviat to this, though – those who have already rejected the true Gospel of Jesus Christ before He returns will not be. Many new believers will be turned, but as Christopher mentioned, those who have chosen to reject the truth in favor of a lie will continue to be seduced by the lies and will be given an even greater delusion.
I often speak with LLDM members about the hope I have in waiting for the Lord’s return from heaven. I want for all of them to be saved before His return, but I know it will only be a small portion. I hope for my loved ones and the kin of all my friends whom I have met here to be included in that portion. How many will be? I do not know. So what I will do is pray for God’s will for all of them. I know it is His will to save some before the Lord Jesus Christ returns in the air; if it is His will to include our loved ones in that some, may it be done quickly. While we have His gracious patience, may He also take those here whose faith is firmly rooted in the Lord Jesus Christ alone, and use them as He wills to open hearts and minds.
May many hearts be turned to our true Savior Christ in 2010. In Jesus’ name, Amen.
March 3rd, 2010 at 5:45 pm
Every since I came to realize the truth about LLDM and its doctrine of “Apostolic Authority”, it has made perfect sense to me why LLDM as a organization spends so much of their time and money, teaching, singing and praying to Samuel Joaquin.
They should be worshiping him for it is not Jesus Christ that they call to for salvation even though they think they are.
They have chosen to be deceived by the spirit of the antichrist and God does allow for those who chose to be deceived to continue to be seduced by the lies.
And when they make the statement “in the name of Jesus Christ” they are not looking to our Lord Jesus in heaven, they are looking at Samuel with their eyes and in their hearts because they have come to believe in the false teaching that it is the Spirit of Jesus Christ that is in Samuel and not the truth that the Lord Jesus Christ is very much alive and well sitting at the right hand of the Father in heaven.
God does not force anyone to worship His Son, Jesus Christ and we have read of the wonderful testimonies of former members of LLDM hearts being turned to the Lord by the truth of the Scriptures and through his word, AMEN!
These former members are of God the Father’s “elect” who were give to the Son before time began; and there are more who have yet to have the hearts opened to the truth, but in the Father’s time according to His will, they will come to the one and true Master the Lord Jesus Christ.
There will not be many who do come the truth, but our Lord Jesus did tells us the many will follow the broud road that leads to destruction and few will follow the straight and narrow path that leads to salvation.
They are the ones that we pray for.
March 3rd, 2010 at 1:03 pm
yes I did not understand that much Spanish when I was attending visiting LLDM for a wile but I do have to agree with the above, I mostly heard the word apostle threw out the whole service mainly glory to the apostle. And that it sad it is so sad to see that the ones that are lost attending LLDM, trying to find out the truth of the lord just made them even more lost then before. we all know that all glory all praise and all power belongs to Jesus our saviour there is no dought about that. And when I do attend a real Christ based church I also feel comfortable and at home, that is when I know that I am not alone. especially in this sight it helps a lot to know that it is not over and it will never be Jesus will always rule amen.
March 3rd, 2010 at 12:30 pm
God’s blessing to in our Lord and Master Jesus Christ.
Colin, thank you for wonderful continued discussions regarding true doctrines of our Lord and God Jesus Christ and you have brought up a point regarding prophets and prophesying.
Here is a wonderful web link to a site that goes into great detail as to what the “Biblical” definition of what a prophet is and it is not what the world or many Christians think that the title and action of a prophet is.
http://www.christiananswers.net/dictionary/prophet.html
In summary, the title and action of a prophet is not to fore tell of a future event or events. A biblical prophet is one who God is using to speak through to mankind here in the physical world. Now, what God might be speaking at a particular moment may be an event that will occur in the future, but the action or job of a prophet is to be the mouth piece of God for what ever God wants to tell everyone else.
An analogy would be the way we use radios. The transmitter (God) is speaking. His speech is transmitted through the airwaves to a radio (prophet) that is specifically tuned into the frequency of the transmitter (God). That radio takes the transmittion and outputs it so that all may here what the transmitter (God) is saying to us. That transmittion may be either to tell about how to receive salvation, or how to manage the affairs of the body of Christ on earth, or to praise, or admonish, or to tell of a future event.
My reason for brings this up is to point out that Samuel Joaquin might tell of future events that may come true. But one thing is for sure, he is not a prophet from God! For what Samuel Joaquin is teaching, such as “Apostolic Authority” or that the Lord Jesus Christ is not God in the flesh, can not be supported by biblical Scriptural facts.
The Scripture is the only test of what anyone is saying, who claims to speak for God because God Never has and Never will speak through anyone about anything that contradicts His written word – the Holy Scriptures, Amen.
March 1st, 2010 at 12:23 am
I attended this Sunday a service in a Christian church invited by a pastor friend of mine. What a blessing!
The service was 3 hours long (as usual), with 1 1/2 hours dedicated to praise the Lord and another 1 1/2 hour allocated to learn the word of God. 3 hours that passed like minutes!
The praise of the Lord Jesus was very fulfilling and and full of the Holy Spirit.
The word from God preached by my friend, a very young black pastor, was very profound and full of wisdom of God.
I remember that in LLDM we use to dedicate mostly 80% of the time praising the “virtues” and “marvels” of the “apostle” Samuel Joaquin, sometimes disguised as “doctrine”. The “pastors” or “encargados” used to read the Bible only to support the “election” and/or LLDM sui generis doctrines. They are not customized to really look for the word of God in the Bible (since they are not prepared biblically or theologically).
What a difference! I feel a very deep compassion for my family and members of LLDM, as somebody said: POOR PEOPLE IN LLDM, SO FAR FROM GOD AND SO CLOSE TO “THE ROYAL FAMILY”!
That inspired me to continue praying for them and one day God have mercy of them as he had of me and release his people from this modern “Aaron”, excuse me, PHARAOH, and they could be free to praise the true God, Jesus Christ.
February 28th, 2010 at 3:16 pm
(Continued from last comment)
The letter to the church in Ephesus (the loveless church):
“”To the angel of the church in Ephesus write:
These are the words of him who holds the seven stars in his right hand and walks among the seven golden lampstands: I know your deeds, your hard work and your perseverance. I know that you cannot tolerate wicked men, that you have tested those who claim to be apostles but are not, and have found them false. You have persevered and have endured hardships for my name, and have not grown weary.”(Revelation 2:1-3)
The Lord Jesus Christ speaks to this church in the midst of crass materialism, degraded animalism, base paganism, and dark heathenism. Ephesus was an inland city 3 miles from the sea, but the broad mouth of the Cayster River allowed access and provided the greatest harbor in Asia Minor. 4 great trade routes went through Ephesus, it therefore became known as the gateway to Asia. It was the center of the worship of the Greek Artemis and the Roman Diana, whose temple was one of the 7 wonders of the ancient world. Paul ministered there for 3 years (Acts 20:31); and later he met with the Ephesian Elders on his way to Jerusalem (Acts 20). Timothy, Tychicus, and the Apostle John all served at this church as pastors, John was in Ephesus when he was arrested by Domitian and exiled 50 miles SW to Patmos.
Notice – “…These are the words of him who holds the seven stars in his right hand and walks among the seven golden lampstands:”(2:1) – He holds in His hand the church, it’s under His control. He walks among His church – He’s still walking up and down among believers today and judging His church. He has 7 words of commendation for this church.
“I know your deeds, your hard work and your perseverance….”(2:2) – We must understand that He is speaking to believers. God is not asking the lost world for works – it is not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy which He has saved us by the washing of regeneration. Paul says in Romans 4:5 – “However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness.” Christ here in Revelation 2, is talking to His own; after they’re saved He wants to talk to them about good works, and He has a lot to say about good works.
We are told Salvation is “not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” (that done in the body by the hands of men)—”(Ephesians 2:9-11).
God sees our heart and knows whether we believe or not. Be careful because your actions show your neighbor, who cannot see your heart, the same thing. That’s why Paul could write to Titus and say “They claim to know God, but by their actions they deny him. They are detestable, disobedient and unfit for doing anything good.”(Titus 1:16)
This is very important for us to see; Paul told them to be filled with the Holy Spirit, and told them what they could do as a spirit filled believer, and now the Lord commends them for their good works. Another translation for this part of verse 2:
““I know your works, your labor, your patience, and that you cannot bear those who are evil.”(2:2 – NKJV)
Works and labor, what’s the difference? This word labor carries the meaning of weariness. They got tired, weary in their working for the Lord. He commends them for their patience. Patience is the fruit of the Holy Spirit. He commends them because they could not bear with evil men.
Also, this church exercised spiritual discernment. It knew how to evaluate men who claimed spiritual leadership by their doctrine and behavior: “that you have tested those who claim to be apostles but are not, and have found them false.”(Revelation 2:2)
The Lord Jesus Christ commends the Ephesian church because they tested anyone who came to Ephesus and said he was an apostle. My bet is they simply asked them whether or not they had seen the Resurrected Christ, and they would soon find out if he really was an apostle. If he wasn’t, they just told him to leave town. They always tested, and the Lord Jesus commends them for that. Notice it’s for His name’s sake they labored – they were bearing the cross. They preached Christ, they believed in the virgin birth, they believed in His Deity, and His Sacrificial death, and they paid a price for it. Next thing is, He says to them:
“You have persevered and have endured hardships for my name, and have not grown weary.”(Rev. 2:3). Well wait a minute, a moment a go He said they had grown weary, and now they have not grown weary. Yes, this is one of the greatest paradoxes of the Christian faith – We can grow weary in the work, but we must NEVER grow weary of the work. There is a lot of difference. You can get weary in the work of Christ, but it’s tragic if you get weary of the work of Christ. For over 40 years since it’s founding, this church had remained faithful to the Word and to the Lord. Through difficulty and persecution, the members had endured, always driven by the write motive (for Christ’s name and reputation). In the first 3 verses, there are 7 words of commendation here for the church.
In verse 4, Christ has one word of condemnation for the Ephesians:
“Yet I hold this against you: You have forsaken your first love.”(Revelation 2:4).
They had left their first love. Is He being picky here? Is Christ picking at something small? Well, to be a Christian is to love the Lord Jesus Christ (John 14:21-23; 1 Corinthians 16:22). But the Ephesians passion and fervor for Christ was becoming cold and mechanical. You see actually, this is very important. And although it may seem minor to us today, but actually this is where the church first got off track. Not in doctrine, but in a personal relationship with the Lord Jesus – they had lost their first love. Ephesus was one of the great cities from that day. It was a great commercial, religous, and political center. At that time, Ephesus was a sea coast city, today it’s not. The old meander river sealed it in, and filled in the harbor, and the city of Ephesus is not about 6 miles farther inland from where it stood at the time of the original temple of Diana, where the waters actually lapped up to the very base of the temple, which is what I mentioned became one of the 7 wonders of the ancient world. Ephesus was probably the biggest center of heathenism that there ever was in history. It had the largest Greek temple ever built, and 4 times bigger than the Parthinon in Rome. The impact of Paul’s ministry in that area can still be seen today in the ruins of the city. The city has moved to higher ground, but at the entrance of the harbor, the ruins of the city that Paul visited are still there today. There were 4 great monuments also built there – 1 each for Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. All of this clearly shows the gospel had a tremendous impact in that area. More evidence of this is that some heathen pagan temples were later turned into churches. The church in Ephesus became a very prominent church. Paul founded it, and John the Apostle became pastor there later on. In Revelation 2:1-3. we saw that there were 7 words of commendation for the Ephesian church. It was the best church of all, it represents the Apostolic period of church history, up to about 100 A.D., around the time of the death of John. It was the church at it’s best. Never has the church reached such a high spiritual level as this church did. The things He commends them for are wonderful things. But, He always has first a word of commendation, and then a word of condemnation (with the couple exceptions I mentioned, like the next church – Smyrna). Here in verse 4, He has a word of condemnation, He says You’ve forsaken your first love. Why does He say that? What the literal words in the Greek is really is saying is that you’re leaving your first love, they hadn’t departed. Now today, we live in a very cold, cynical, and skeptical world, and the church is so caught up in the things of the present, that the world has intruded into the church in a very definite way. But for you and I, it’s difficult to conceive the intense and enthusiastic devotion to the person of Christ that the early church had. The Holy Spirit had brought believers in Ephesus into an intense, personal relationship with Jesus Christ. Wherein they could say to Him (as I trust those of you who truly love Christ above everyone and everything else the way I do can) “Lord, I love you.” And they were getting away from that first love, and I’ve been there too. Ephesus was a great city and with all of it’s attractions it was beginning to draw them away. This was the church that became such a potent evangelistic church. The entire area – 25 millions of people and all the Roman Emperors and Nobility that attended there – they ALL heard the gospel. They all had an opportunity to hear it, and they saw the moving of the Spirit of God which probably has not been duplicated since that time. This church had been brought into a close, intimate relationship with Jesus Christ, and that’s the important thing today. We are so involved in methods, and there are so many band-aid paths and courses that are making band-aid believers. It’s generally some little legal system where if you follow certain rules and observe certain psychological patterns, you’re going to solve all of your problems. You’ll be able to get along with yourself, and with your neighbors, and with everybody! Especially your wife.
All of those things are very important, but they also create a problem because a great many people think that if you just get a few rules that solves the Christian life. This is it in a nutshell – Do you LOVE Jesus Christ?? I don’t care what your system is, your denomination is, your program is, your little set of rules, they ALL come to naught if you don’t love Him. And if you do love Him, well some systems are better than others, but most any system will actually work based on whether or not you individually love Him, that’s the important thing to remember. And it will make your relationship to Christ, your service of Him, it will make everything more beautiful, and more wonderful. But notice what John says here – are you getting away from your first and best love, the Lord Jesus? He is the solution. This church was getting away from that.
Well, what are they to do?
“Remember the height from which you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place. But you have this in your favor: You hate the practices of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.”(Revelation 2:5-7)
First thing to do, Remember! Memory is a wonderful thing. As the saying goes, God gives us memory so we may have roses in December. Do you remember when you were converted? Do you remember what a thrill it was and what the Lord Jesus meant to you? Have you become cold and indifferent? Have you gotten away from Him today? Are you in a back slidden condition? Remember!! Remember where you were, and you can get back there. And the 2nd thing He says to do – Repent!!! Go to Him! Repent means to turn back to Him. And repentance is actually the message for Believers today. How dare the church tell an unsaved man to repent, what he needs to do is to turn to Christ. Now when he turns to Christ, he will turn as the Thessalonians did, turning to God from idols, to serve the Living God, and wait for His Son from heaven. But the church needs to repent, and that’s a message they don’t want to hear today. Christ says He’ll “Remove your lampstand out of it’s place” – Christ says Remember, repent and return to Him or else “I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place.” He says He’ll remove their lampstand. He is still watching the lamps, and He doesn’t mind if He has to trim the wicks. And He doesn’t mind using the snuffers when it refuses to give light. But now He says to the church
“But you have this in your favor: You hate the practices of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.”(Revelation 2:6) – “Nicolaitans” are going to be mentioned again. According to early church history, Irenaeus writes that Nicolas (who was made a deacon in Acts 6), was a false believer who later became apostate; but because of his credentials was able to lead the church astray. Like Balaam, he led the people to immorality and wickedness and assaulted the church with spiritual temptations. Clement of Alexander writes said they “abandoned themselves to pleasure like goats, leading a life of self-indulgence. Their teaching perverted grace and replaced liberty with license.” Apparantly, John had lived long enough to see the forming of the first group of cults who claimed they were “Christian”. Nicolas of Antioch, as we see, formed an antinomian gnostic cult, which taught that people could engage in sin in order to understand it. They gave themselves over to sensuality with the explanation that sins did not touch the Spirit. This group the Lord Jesus calls the “Nicolaitans”, were the followers of this cult. The church in Ephesus hated them. A little later on, we’ll see the church in Pergamum tolerated them.
Now He says “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.”(Revelation 2:7) –
Not everyone can hear the Word of God. I know they can hear the audible sound, but they miss the message. This is a phrase the Lord Jesus uses to alert dull ears. Remember He said “They have ears to hear, but they hear not.” Christ speaks today by way of The Holy Spirit to those who have spiritual perception, and I hope you are listening (reading) today. The Spirit here is the Holy Spirit, He’s the teacher of the church. It says to him who overcomes and that refers to genuine believers. We can only overcome through the blood of the Lamb. He says “I will grant to eat from the tree of life”. If you recall, man was forbidden to eat of this tree after the fall (Genesis 3). But in heaven, the “no trespassing” sign is taken down, and ALL genuine believers will be given the privledge of the tree of life. What kind of fruit is it? I don’t know. But I think it is sweeter and more delicous than anything you have ever tasted and it will really have you living it up. Most of us don’t really know anything about living yet, we just have a sort of vegetable existence down here, but up there we’ll have a good fruit existence. We’ll eat from the tree of life, and we’ll get to live like we never lived down here before. “Paradise of God” is literally translated as “Garden of God” Heaven is a beautiful Garden, not only a place where the streets are paved with gold.
In my next post, I will give comments on the letter to the church in Smyrna (The Persecuted church).
I hope this may encourage more LLDM members to study the Scriptures daily and honestly check whether LLDM teachings are based on truth.
God’s blessing to all of you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
February 28th, 2010 at 12:40 pm
Hello and God’s blessings to everybody in the name of Jesus Christ.
In the effort of raising awareness of the totality of Scripture, and creating future discussions with members of LLDM, I would like to continue giving my notes on the prophecies of the book of Revelation. I encourage everyone to look up all Bible references on your own.
In chapters 2 and 3, we have the possession of Jesus Christ – the church. The church which is His body. The church which He loved and gave Himself for, and the believers that are in it (which the Father gave to Him, and He thanked Him for that – John 17). We are dealing with 7 churches, and that will cover all of the churches that ever have been. After chapter 3, the church is conspicuous in it’s absence. Up until chapter 4, the church is mentioned 19 times, but from chapters 4-20, the church is not mentioned once. The church is not in the world during this period, it has been raptured, removed from the earth. These 7 letters have a 3 fold meaning and application.
1st is the contemporary meaning: they had a direct message to the local churches of John’s day. John was writing to local churches that he knew all about. He had been to these places and he knew the local condition.
The 2nd meaning is the composite: each one is a composite picture of the church. There is something that is applicable to all churches in all ages in each message to each individual church. When you read the message to the church in Pergamum, for instance, you can get a message there for your church and for yourself personally.
The 3rd application is chronological: The panoramic history of the church. These 7 letters give the complete church history, from the upper room to the upper air. It deals with 7 distinct periods of church history, and the last one, the one we are in today is Laodicea. Ephesus represents the church at it’s best. This prophetic picture of the church is largely fulfilled.
Laid down for us in this book, there is the best organized material in any book of the Bible to be found. There is a definite format to all the letters to the 7 churches: 1st is has some form of the glorified Christ as we saw in chapter 1, with particular things emphasized for particular purposes. 2nd the letter is addressed to the angels of each church, and as we saw in chapter one these angels are human messengers, they’re the pastors of each local church. 3rd: The Lord Jesus says to each of them “I know thy works” to start off with, and 4th: He first gives a word of commendation. Then He gives them a word of condemnation.
Exceptions that prove the rule: No condemnation to the churches in Smyrna or Philadelphia, and no word of commendation for the church of Laodicea. Laodicea is the apostate church.
5th feature of each letter: each letter concludes with a warning.
These are “the things that are.” It’s church-related things. We have forgotten today that in the past, especially in the Roman Empire, letter writing was commonplace. There was extensive communication throughout the Roman Empire. These 7 letters of the apocalypse are very remarkable for several reasons. Most importantly: it is the direct letter from Christ to the churches. There are 2 epistles to the Ephesians, the one that Paul wrote, and this one here that John wrote, and the Lord Jesus is the one sending it through John here. These 7 churches were outstanding churches in that day, however there were several other outstanding churches. This area of the Roman Empire where the 7 were was probably the most important area during the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd centuries. The reason being because this was where the east and the west met. By 2,000 B.C. there was a civilization along this coast of Asia Minor. It was the heart of the Hittite nation in ancient times. Ephesus, Smyrna, and Pergamum were inhabited by 2,000 B.C. The Anatolian civilization met the Greek and Roman Civilizations at this point. The letters here were to travel through this area, and they did and made a tremendous impact.
I would like to deal with each of these 7 churches individually.
February 26th, 2010 at 10:32 pm
In reviewing some of the older comments on this blog, I came across this comment by a devoted LLDM follower. I would like to address and answer all of the questions raised here in the hopes that others from LLDM may know the gospel better and understand better the mercy of God.
Q: “If Jesus Christ was God, how he couldn’t defend Himself, He was the almighty God, he still got killed by a few people.” – Frank(LLDM)
A: He absolutely could have defended Himself. When they told Him “come down from that cross”, He could have at any moment. But He chose to hang there and suffer the punishment for the sins of you and me. The most amazing thing about the cross – it was not just a man dying for your sins, God Himself came into human flesh and suffered that agony for you. That’s how much He loves the world.
Q: “How can you kill a spirit that you can’t see? Hard to believe ha?” – Frank (LLDM)
A: Jesus is the visible image of the invisible God. As the Son, the 2nd person of the Trinity, He came out of eternity and took on the appearance of a man, so that after he had taken your punishment and atoned for your sins down here to save you, He ascended to heaven as our great high priest to mediate for your sins to God the Father. He died down here to save us, He lives up there to keep us saved. He became human so he could be tested in the same way that we are tested, and so that He could have mercy on us when we are tested.
Q: “Also if he was so powerful why a few men detained Him and kill him, o maybe he left all the power in heaven?” – Frank (LLDM)
A: Nope, once again it was a choice. He allowed a few men to detain and kill Him. Pontius Pilate even tried to negotiate with Jesus to get Him to be released, all Jesus would’ve had to have done was say He was not the King of the Jews, and He would have been set free. But “As Moses lifted up the serpent in the desert, so too the Son of Man must be lifted up”…It was necessary for Jesus to die on the cross, otherwise there would be no forgiveness for the sins of mankind. Therefore, it is not a matter of being weak that Jesus did not call His Divine powers down to save Himself; it is in fact a matter of great meekness (meekness means controlled strength). He did it willingly to SAVE the WORLD!!
Q: “This is confusing, I am puzzled, I must be serving a confused god, don’t you think?” – Frank(LLDM)
A: Well, it really isn’t confusing at all when you do think about it, Jesus voluntarily gave up His life to save sinners. God also makes it very clear that He has nothing to do with confusion, He’s not the author of it. Therefore, there must be some human teachers in this world trying to throw you into confusion because this is what the Holy Bible teaches.
Now in regards to the 1,000+ letters written by “Apostle” Samuel to his followers:
My beloved, please take to heart this warning from Paul:
“Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some report, message or letter as if from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come. Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for (that day will not come) until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.
Don’t you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things? And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming. The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.”(2 Thessalonians 2:1-12)
God’s blessings to all of you by our Lord Jesus Christ.
February 26th, 2010 at 8:52 pm
I would like to re-post here a comment I made on Oscar’s most recent blog.
I was told by a LLDM pastor, and also by several LLDM members on this blog and in person, that by not believing Samuel Joaquin is an Apostle, I was blaspheming God’s prophet. My very simple reply to all of them: “Please tell me of any prophecies Samuel has foretold which have come to pass, or tell me where I may read his prophecies.” The answer from LLDM members: none.
The answer from the LLDM pastor I posed this question to: Deuteronomy 18:15.
“The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own brothers. You must listen to him.”
His claim was that “by not listening to Samuel, you are disobeying God’s command.”
No reference to any actual prophecies made true, but rather a presumption that Moses’ prophecy here was foretelling the coming of Aaron and Samuel Joaquin.
Initially, this made no sense to me. First of all, Moses is speaking to the Israelites, and says God will raise up a prophet from “among their own brothers,” but neither Samuel or Aaron Joaquin are Jewish, so how can they be raised from among their own brothers?
After further studying this passage, the Holy Spirit has revealed to me that this is a case of LLDM putting Samuel in the very place of Christ. Any LLDM members reading this, please look up all Bible references made for yourself. I will do my best to show how Moses’ prophecy in this passage actually foretells the coming of the Messiah.
Let’s look at more of the same passage.
“The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own brothers. You must listen to him. For this is what you asked of the Lord your God at Horeb on the day of the assembly when you said, “Let us not hear the voice of the Lord our God or see this great fire anymore, or we will die.” The Lord said to me “What they say is good. I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers; I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him. If anyone does not listen to my words which the prophet speaks in my name, I myself will call him to account.”(Deuteronomy 18:15-19)
The singular pronoun emphasizes the ultimate prophet who was to come – Jesus Christ. Both the Old Testament (Deuteronomy 34:10), and the New Testament (Acts 3:22-23; 7:37) interpret this passage as a reference to the coming Messiah, who like Moses would receive and preach divine revelation and lead his people (John 1:21-25; 1:43-45; 6:14; 7:40). Jesus was also like Moses in many other ways:
Both were spared death as a baby (Exodus 2; Matthew 2:13-23); both renounced a royal court (Philippians 2:5-8; Hebrews 11:24-27); Both had compassion on their people (Numbers 27:17; Matthew 9:36); Made intercession for the people (Deuteronomy 9:18; Hebrews 7:25); spoke with God face to face (Exodus 34:29-30; 2 Corinthians 3:7); was the mediator of a covenant (Hebrews 8:6-7; 1 Timothy 2:5).
“But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death. You may say to yourselves “How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the Lord?” If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the Lord does not take place or come true, that is a message the Lord has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him.” (Deuteronomy 18:20-22).
In contrast to the true prophet Christ, Moses also predicted there would be false prophet who would come to Israel (and to the world), speaking not in the name of the Lord, but in the name of false gods. How could the people tell whether or not a prophet was authentically speaking for God? Moses said “If the thing does not take place or come true”, it was not from God. The characteristic of false prophets is the failure of their predictions to always come true. Sometimes false prophets speak, and it does happen as they said, but they are representing false gods and trying to turn people from the true God – these prophets were to be rejected and executed (Deuteronomy 13:1-5). Other times false prophets are more subtle, identifying with the true God but speaking lies. If ever a prophecy of such a prophet fails, he is shown to be false (Jeremiah 28:15-17; Jeremiah 29:30-32).
In light of this more complete passage of Scripture, my question still stands. To any LLDM proponents who still insist that Samuel Joaquin is a prophet:
“Can you please tell me of any prophecies Samuel has foretold which have come to pass, or tell me where I may read his prophecies?”
As I believe I have mentioned before here, I am not trying to bash anyone over the head with this and arrogantly say “this is why you are wrong,” I make absolutely no claim to be infallible. But these are the sort of inconsistencies within what LLDM teaches that do not line up with the total and complete Word of God, which are the reasons that I cannot accept what LLDM teaches as truth. The Holy Spirit will not allow me to.
I have posted this here in the hopes of creating a dialogue with members of LLDM who may stumble upon this website.
February 22nd, 2010 at 11:26 pm
As many of you may know, La Luz Del Mundo websites do not allow for any comments to be displayed which disagree with their doctrine on any blog or guestbook they manage.
I would just briefly like to share one instance:
A couple of months ago, I ran a little experiment. I signed a guestbook on a website managed by LLDM 2 times, one comment was published and one was deleted and never allowed to be seen.
The comment which was deleted:
“Jesus Christ is the ONLY way to Salvation.”
But the comment allowed to be posted:
“Apostle Samuel is the ONLY way to Salvation.”
If LLDM is confident in their beliefs, they would at least allow opposing points of view to be posted on websites; and pastors and teachers would not simply just walk away from someone who questions the validity of their doctrine, which several of them do.
If Samuel Joaquin were confident in the gospel he preaches, he would make himself available to the public for interviews and questioning, which he does not.
LLDM members, some of you may see truth and confidence in Samuel and his hierarchical organization. But what he and his suboardinates project, at least to me, is actually only half-truths mixed with lies and bravado (false confidence).
A little tangient, somewhat related to Christopher’s comments about how the early church under the leadership of the Biblical Apostles did not build any physical church buildings; and somewhat related to why I raised no objection when Oscar decided to ban Micael.
Just thought someone might be interested.
May God bless all of you to the fullest!
February 22nd, 2010 at 10:50 am
Infiltrado en lldm – God’s blessing to you too!
I did not see your input at first, thank you.
My mother and father inlaw were among those there to worship Samuel. She was in such pain that she had to go to the doctor for special pain medication just to be able to endure the long hours and weather there and to beable to travel back to the states.
February 22nd, 2010 at 10:45 am
Colin, God’s blessing and greetings to you in the Lord Jesus Christ.
Thank you for your input on the statements that I posted. In context of its words LLDM is clearly declaring that Samuel Joaquin is the new Messiah and the new savior of the world and are in truth just using the name of our Lord and true Savior Jesus Christ as a marketing slogan to entrap those of the world and bring them under Samuel’s control for his glory and edification with money and praise.
This is why LLDM has to contently be preaching their doctrine of “Apostolic Authority” with nothing being taught regarding who has the true “Authority” – the Lord Jesus Christ.
February 22nd, 2010 at 10:38 am
Digging through some HBU New Testament notes, I found something that may interest you guys. I put in sentence form some abstract points given to us by Mark Proctor, Professor of Christianity.
Here is an introduction to Pauline literature.
Paul was the “Apostle to the Gentiles” and his ministry was passed to us in the form of letters (13 of them). In his time, Greco-Roman Cities were at the threshold of change and social diversity, a vehicle for “Hellenization”, as use of the Greek language was influential to the Mediterranean region. Rome’s Imperial Road System and Roman military presence kept the peace, thus, allowing safe passage for travelers. Travel by land was, therefore, more safe than travel by sea. Geographically, Pauline Christianity began in Arabia (Galatians 1:17), as Paul himself stated he went there after his conversion by Jesus Christ. Paul planted enduring roots in Galatia, Macedonia, Greece, Asia, and Achaia and was planning a Spanish mission (Romans 15:24). Taking a look of the social makeup in the times of Paul, one would find it consisted of slaves, freedman, freemen, Familia Caesaris, artisans, traders (the last two the largest section of Paul’s congregation), women, and Jews.
Paul’s method of operation started in synagogues and later moved to private residences. The typical profile of a Pauline Community consisted of baptism (*only* In the name of Jesus Christ, not the Apostle), communal meals, voluntary membership, house churches, and level of tolerance among the congregation, It was inclusive in terms of social stratification (it matter not if you were man, woman, rich, poor, Jew, Gentile, etc.) but exclusive in terms of religious and ethical toleration (excluded those who believed in other gods and idols). Worship service activities included singing, Scripture reading and exposition, moral exhortation, gifts of the spirit, statements about Jesus, prayers, common meals, and NO sacrifices. The church administration had NO rigid hierarchy (take notes, LLDM), and had a strong missionary drive as every outsider was viewed as a potential member.
Paul wrote 13 of 27 New Testament Epistles, over half of the New Testament! He wrote letters as a substitute for face-to-face discussion and as a means to reinforce previous instruction, helping shape community identity. Therefore, when studying Paul, we are conducting Epistolography (the study of letters). Letters helped the maintenance of friendship/social ties. The stereotypical form always included the name of the writer and the addressee, greeting, prayer for the recipient/Thanksgiving, body, and final greetings. He would greet with “Chaeris” or “Chaerein” (Grace or hello) in addition to a peace wish. The thanksgiving section predicted the summary of the letter’s body and suggests Paul’s reasons for writing. Pauline paraenesis includes ethics, eschatology, autobiography, travel plans, hymns. Moreover, between the body and final greetings Paul would frequently use the words “I urge you”. The first urban Christian center was Corinthians. Paul also had an amanuensis, a “secretary”, charged with more than simple dictation. Bible scholars are 100% that Paul wrote Romans, 1-2 Corinthians, Galatians, Philippians, 1 Thessalonians, Colossians, and Philemon. These letters are undisputed, the disputed letters are hence, Ephesians, 2 Thessalonians, 1-2 Timothy, and Titus. Reason for this is that literary style is different, and perhaps he charged his secretary with writing them. The letters can be divided in groups. There are 4 prison Epistles (Paul didn’t mind being in jail while carrying out the good news of Jesus Christ!): Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, and Philemon. There are 3 pastoral Epistles: 1-2 Timothy and Titus. And finally, there are 2 fragmentary letters: Philippians and 2 Corinthians. Galatians, Colossians, and Ephesians were meant as “circular letters” to pass around between them (i.e. Colossians 4:16)..Needless to say, Paul’s letters are the earliest collected Christian writings.
Yet, who was Paul? He often wrote autobiographical passages. Take for instance, Galatians 1:11- 2:21. We learn that he met up with Peter, James, and John and that they acknowledged his call as an apostle, agreeing that Paul should preach to the uncircumcised Gentiles and they to the circumcised Jews. Paul feared not even the “pillars” for he even rebuked Peter for not eating with the Gentiles whenever Jews arrived for a supper. This is so because Peter, when Jews were not present, would sit and eat with the Gentiles! His was of a more stern character in regards to Christ Jesus and was not one to holdback scorn from say, the “foolish” Galatians for quickly turning away from Christ. In 1 Thessalonians, he is happy at how the new group of Gentiles “Turned to God from idols” (1:9) and encourages perseverance, expresses satisfaction and joy, and defends himself from charges of self-seeking cowardice… he also corrects a misconception about the Parousia/ second coming of Christ (that his coming would be “like a thief in the night”, unexpected). Hope in the eschaton. He points out that deceased believers will participate and that the “dead in Christ” are merely “sleeping”. Paul explains that it is better to be a dead Christian than a live Christian because they will be the first to meet Jesus. 1 Thessalonians can be regarded as a letter of consolation, Paul uses epideictic rhetoric: giving praise and blame. He praises the Thessalonians for their progress in the faith and urges them not to respond to political opposition and religious bigotry by abandoning the Faith. Thessalonians lacked hope and Paul writes shared sufferings as a source of encouragement. Paul does apologize to the Thessalonians for his absence and tells him that he, in fact, did not take advantage of them and he plans a return visit. Paul was a former Jew who persecuted newly converted Christians until Jesus appeared to him on his road to Damascus and forever changed his life. He came a long way and carried his duties firmly and with resilience.
Whereas 1 Thessalonians was a happy letter, in Galatians, Paul is considerably angry. Paul struggled with the Judaizers, Christian Jews who sought to make Jews of all gentile converts to Christianity. These were Torah observant Jews. This letter dates circa 55 of the common era. There is an internal church problem and the letter was written to confront the threat of the Judaizers, defend his apostolic office, clarify that no circumcision was necessary for gentile converts, and that salvation is by faith, not works. The thanksgiving section was omitted in this letter, further implying that Paul was, indeed, mad. He does warn those who would cause him trouble. Interestingly, in Galatians 6:17, he lets everyone know that he carries the marks of Jesus in his body! “Marks”= Stygmata, people distinguished for their deep religious nature had open wounds on their hands and feet (where Jesus was nailed), and would start bleeding. It has usually been regarded as a spiritual gift. This verse was the Scriptural basis for Catholic teaching on the stigmata.
However, Luke’s presentation of Apostleship was the very problem. There were only 12, and these were present with Jesus pretty much since Jesus’ baptism at the hands of John the Baptist to his ascension. Paul also did not bear witness to Jesus’ resurrection and new apostles were selected via a bureaucratic process. If you take all these immediately mentioned points, then Paul does not fit the bill! However, this does not mean he was not one of them. As he most eloquently puts, “Neither by human commission nor from human authorities, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised from the dead” (1:1) was he appointed as apostle. Revelation of Jesus Christ and God’s Elective activity made his a “Heavenly Apostleship” and human bureaucracy played no part in his calling. More intricate was his apostolic independence, independent from Jerusalem leadership but does desire their official endorsement and support. The time chart is as follows: unspecified stay in Arabia, 3 years in Damascus, 15 days with Peter and James, and a second trip to Jerusalem after 14 years. The Judean leaders endorses Paul’s ministry without imposing the Torah restrictions (i.e., circumcision) on Gentiles. Even Titus wasn’t circumcised and the only thing they asked Paul was to “remember the poor”. In Acts 15, there is a different story as, supposedly, Paul went to Jerusalem right after his conversion. The letter to Galatians has a polemical tone. Paul’s opponents, the “Judaizers”, claimed Torah observance was necessary for salvation. They advocated Jewish legalism, served themselves from Christ, and was a circumcision party (they induced Christian Gentiles to cut their foreskin). Paul’s understanding of the Torah was different. To him, Torah observance was meaningless for believers as it was only a stop-gap measure. The law revealed human sinfulness and was a moral custodian until reinforcement arrived in the form of Jesus Christ.
(I will return with the second and final part)
February 19th, 2010 at 1:37 pm
hi Chris.
Perhaps I can help you with translation. “Ungido de nuestro dios” means:
in the correct sense: Our God Anointed.
BUT
in the nonsense lldm way, this means EXACTLY the second phrase:
“the Messiah of our God”
for them, samuel is the NEW CHRIST sent by God himself “for these modern times”
Samuel show up until 11:44 near noon, Do you know the hour since membership started to gather in the streets, under the cold rain of those days? Well, some of them start to gather since 6:00 A.M. That day was rainy, cloudy and cold. Can you imagine? stay near of 6 hours under cold rain OR hot sunlight only for greet to such corrupt man, like samuel IS A MADNESS.
I AM NAUSEATED too.
God help us.
February 19th, 2010 at 1:27 pm
Christopher, these translations are pretty much correct,. They are declaring Samuel Joaquin to be the anointed one of God, blasphemously putting him in the place of Christ. Both the Hebrew word Messiah and the Greek word Christ mean ‘the anointed one’.
February 19th, 2010 at 11:31 am
I need some help with the translation of the below statement.
It comes from LLMD’s USA web site regarding Samuel praying at the Temple. What is of concern to me is at the end of the second sentence is this statement – “Ungido de nuestro Dios.”
Bing translates this phrase as – “for the blessing of view and salute our God anointed. ”
Google translates this phrase as – “to enjoy the blessing to see and greet the Messiah of our God
Are these correct translations at least in content?
http://www.lldmusa.org/indice.html
“En esta ocasión a las 11:44 de la mañana, el apóstol de Dios, Samuel Joaquín Flores, salió a orar al templo de Hermosa Provincia. Nuevamente la Iglesia se encuentra apostada en las calles que conducen hacia el templo para gozar de la bendición de ver y saludar al Ungido de nuestro Dios.”
This time 11: 44 a.m., the Apostle of God, Samuel Joaquín Flores, went to pray to the Temple of beautiful province. Again the Church is bet on the streets leading to the temple for the blessing of view and salute our God anointed.
February 18th, 2010 at 10:13 am
To my fellow contenders for the faith in the Lord Jesus Christ,
I believe that this blog site became exactly what I myself had hope it would become; an informal place to contend for the faith and to openly discuss with members of LLDM about their faith in Samuel Joaquin and why they believe that salvation starts with him and not with Jesus Christ alone.
It also has development into a wonderful reference site for future discussions with those of LLDM who may someday chose to research what the doctrine(s) of LLDM are really about and where they truly come from; and hopefully come to the conclusion that LLDM is a religion based upon false teachings started and continued by false apostles.
And to start to trust upon the Holy Spirit alone to teach of the true spiritual knowledge of the Father in heaven and of Jesus Christ. A spiritual knowledge that can only come the Word of God, the Holy Bible.
In the world of modern technology this blog site is a net being thrown out by “fishers of men” who are in the serve of the one true Savior – Jesus Christ.
It has been of great joy that I have been able to contribute to this blog site in the name of Jesus Christ and if the Holy Spirit brings the need to my heart I will always be ready to give testimony for why I have the hope of Jesus Christ alone for my salvation and grace.
God’s blessing to all who call on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, Amen.
February 18th, 2010 at 12:18 am
All our readers would be wondering what happened to the collaborators of this blog?
In my case, I AM NAUSEATED and in shock, witnessing the flagrant abomination and idolatry in which has been turned the “church” in which I grew up. I t’s so gross that I can’t think in an opening statement.
I’m addressing LLDM and his QUEEN SJF of course.
I’ll explain when I recover my breath.
So bear with me for a while.
February 11th, 2010 at 4:14 pm
I agree with you
There was and there is false gods and false prophets Just like gays today they are multiplying by the second. And do they see a wrong in it no they believe that God still loves them. I continue to pray always that all of the blasphemy in this world would just go away, but some day they will be confronted by our lord him self and then their eyes will be opened.
February 10th, 2010 at 11:00 am
As Oscar mentioned, someone (Because nobody signed the article) in LLDM wrote this:
“Thirteen were letters written by the Apostle Paul. The Apostle of Jesus Christ, our brother Samuel, has written over the past forty years of leadership and governance of the Church, near a thousand letters to the Church,
It ends with this ridiculuos comment “Nobody have achieved what brother Samuel did, not even Paul”
How these blind and biased people dare to compare the epistles of Paul, full of wisdom from God and completely aligned to the teachings of Jesus Christ with the silly, pitiful and full of heresy writings of an impostor?
Only in a mind controlled by Satan could exist such an idiocy, because if whoever wrote that preposterous comment really believe it, only God would be able to free his mind. But if the author of this apostasy did it fully aware of his intent, God help him because is a blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.
February 8th, 2010 at 6:02 pm
That is all we need is another lunatic rewriting the bible. We did not have a chance when we were reading out of the same bible now how are we suppose to help the blinded by the LLDM now how with a book that was written by the anti Christ. This dose not mean anything to those that do not know about the LLDM and their worship to the apostle but when we have loved ones involved then it is war.
February 8th, 2010 at 2:41 pm
Comments regarding LLDM’s declaration of greatness to Samuel Joaquin.
As translated from http://www.lldmhouston.org/historia.html –
“Thirteen were letters written by the Apostle Paul. The Apostle of Jesus Christ, our brother Samuel, has written over the past forty years of leadership and governance of the Church, near a thousand letters to the Church, and as many written to ministers or church members. In the entire history of the Church, since it was founded by Jesus Christ more than two thousand years, there was no organization and internal management as there is now. The ministries, directorates, commissions, fees administrative, everything absolutely everything, has been established by the Apostle of Jesus Christ.”
The only way that anyone could make such a comparison is to believe that these 1000+ letter from Samuel Joaquin are equal to or even better than the very Word of God, the Holy Bible.
As for the statement, “In the entire history of the Church….” I guess the 1500+ years of papal control by the Roman Catholic Church does not count as an organization of religion with all of its highly organized “internal management” that has been established around the world centuries before the birth of Aaron and Samuel.
But where in the Holy Scriptures, especially in Paul’s letters, does the Holy Spirit give instructions for a globally control organization?
Answer – No where does the Holy Spirit of God instruct the creation of an earthly physical church to be organized in such a manner. It is only on a local congregational level with in a community that there is to be established a level of organization starting with local Elders, deacons, teachers and preachers and that’s all.
It is amazing how the very description of organization that LLDM is professing to have created by the will of Samuel Joaquin is no where to be found with in the Holy Bible.
But of course he has written over 1000 letters himself.
I would image that if all of the letters he has written are as profound as to even redefine the original plan of church organization as laid out by the Holy Spirit then Samuel should publish such a great work for all to read and study.
Samuel has even had published a new Bible, to be purchased by the LLDM member of course. This new improved Bible is to make life simpler for his flock because it now combines the KJV Bible with the LLDM official hymnairo into one book.
The next logical step for Samuel would be to also add to this new improved Bible all of his 1000+ letters of how the Church, under his authority of course, should really be organized with his “Apostolic Authority”, “Election”, and “Times for Salvation”.
February 8th, 2010 at 11:04 am
Yesterday I posed two questions.
How many physical buildings and/or temples did the Lord Jesus Christ order to have built?
How many physical buildings and/or temples did the original apostles have built?
The answer to both is ZERO.
Neither the Lord Jesus Christ nor his apostles ever ordered or even talk about any “official” church buildings. The only places of physical worship that they record are when they address their blessings to those who met a brethrens homes.
The Lord set the presences for this while he was talking to the Samaritan woman by Jacob’s well.
(John 4:21-24)
“21Jesus declared, “Believe me, woman, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem.
22You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews.
23Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.
24God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.”
So with LLDM’s role call and inventor of all of the physical buildings, churches and temples that Samuel Joaquin has cause to be built means nothing.
They might as well as be mortuaries for they are all truly filled with the living dead. I say this not flippantly for the spirit of the antichrist reigns in these building of glory to Samuel Joaquin and for the spreading of the false truths that lead to eternal life with out God the Father, the Lord Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit – eternity in the lake of fire – Hell.
Where there should be all praising and glorification to the Lord Jesus Christ it is given to Samuel Joaquin with sermons, songs and prayers of his “Apostolic Authority” and the “Time of Salvation” because of him.
Just this past Sunday the study service was 100% focused on the congregation convincing themselves that they do not worship Samuel because they do not physically bow down before him and/or kiss his hand in such away as to give him glory.
But what does the congregation do as soon as the sermon ends? They go straight into a worship song declaring him the saving grace from God as the only true Apostle of Jesus Christ. A song that had nothing to do with praise to Jesus Christ.
It is like watching a child caught in the act of taking cookie with his hand still in the cookie jar but says he is not taking a cookie and his hand is still in the cookie jar.
February 8th, 2010 at 10:23 am
Dear Sum,
Thank you and God’s blessing to you for your thoughts and prayers for myself and my wife.
To answer your question, no my wife has as of yet come to see the full truth of salvation in Jesus Christ.
But since I have chosen to remain very close to her spiritually I do see little moments of truth come from her heart and her mouth, truths that are from the Word and even contradicts the teachings of LLDM. She is just not aware of it and I praise the Holy Spirit for giving to me these little signs of hope.
As for the difficulties with LLDM many like my wife who have been raised and indoctrinated with the lie that with out Samuel Joaquin in their life they will have no salvation. This is were the whole psyche study of cultism and the techniques of mind control comes in and it can take years of deprogramming before they can allow themselves to see the truth.
It just takes a great deal of love, patients and perseverance through prayer and the healing power of Jesus Christ through his Holy Spirit.
But in regards to the big picture it is just as Colin pointed out here recently, the Lord Jesus Christ declared that there must take place a great apostasy or turning away from the Word before His appointed return comes.
So in regards to LLDM being a part of the great apostasy; it is a bitter sweet problem and one that cause those who call on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ alone for salvation must embrace with great joy even if it means the loss of those we love because they chose to be deceived by the false teaching and lies of the antichrist.
It is to this end that we do what we do when we are called upon by the Holy Spirit to spread the truth in Love to those who are covered with the vail of lies from the antichrist and those who spread his false teaching and turn the many away from Jesus Christ.
If it is my time to be taken I am at peace with the fact that despite having my wife become angry with me to the point of wanting to leave me, I have told her the truth with love and compassion the Samuel Joaquin is a false apostle and is teaching a false gospel.
I take great joy in the fact that as of now she has yet to leave and continues to listen to what I do read to her straight from the Scripture for she can not dispute the Word.
With all glory to our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, Amen.
February 7th, 2010 at 2:38 pm
A question for Chris
with all of your knowledge that you have regarding Christ, are you still not able to reach your wife to the truth of the bible?
I am just amazed how controlling the LLDM are that they do not leave one person not even the husband or the wife to talk them out of the cult of LLDM. Some cult, I bet you anything that God him self will come down and they will choose the Apostille over the true Lord. The Lord is with you Chris and still your wife is not able to recognize the truth. I know exactly what you are going threw because I went threw the same thing and if it wasn’t for God no one would be able to snap out of it. With prayer and patients that you have God will concur all.
February 7th, 2010 at 10:16 am
Regarding the LLDM web link that Oscar posted I have a couple questions to ask.
How many physical buildings and/or temples did the Lord Jesus Christ order to have built?
How many physical buildings and/or temples did the original apostles have built?
February 6th, 2010 at 4:46 pm
Oscar,
Thank you for bring this LLDM web page to light! This is anamazing documentation of glorification of Samuel. I had to have google translate it for me, but I think I pretty much got the context of what this letter is declaring to LLDM as well as to the World – which is that Samuel Joaquin is the apex of all of the apostles.
Translation –
“Of all those whom God has sent to earth to lead his people, whom Christ called Apostles, none have done the work of the Apostle of Jesus Christ, our brother Samuel. In his humility, the Apostle of Jesus Christ has always respected the work and teaching of the other Apostles, but certainly none of them, even the Apostle Paul did what he has achieved.”
Even to the point of stating that his father was nothing incomparision to him (Samuel).
Translation -
“If we discount the three countries
conquered by the Apostle of Jesus Christ, Aaron’s brother Joaquin, his brother Samuel Joaquin has
conquered then 32 nations. But to be honest, the work of brother Aaron, did establish
so only three churches in El Salvador, Honduras and one in just begun the work in the States
States, specifically in San Antonio and Los Angeles. So, the more than 100 churches in El Salvador,
about 100 churches in the United States, as many in Honduras or Costa Rica, are the work of the Apostle
Jesus Christ, our brother Samuel Joaquin. ”
This is absolutly amazing to me to read this self declaration of glory to himself!
February 6th, 2010 at 3:11 pm
From http://www.lldmhouston.org/historia.html
“El 9 de junio de 1964, Dios llama al descanso eterno a su Apóstol. Ese mismo día, también bajo la autoridad de Dios, el hermano Samuel Joaquín Flores, es llamado al Apostolado para dirigir la Iglesia desde ese día. De todos los hombres que Dios ha enviado a la tierra para dirigir a su pueblo, a quienes Cristo llamó Apóstoles, ninguno ha hecho el trabajo del Apóstol de Jesucristo, nuestro hermano Samuel. En su humildad, el Apóstol de Jesucristo siempre ha respetado el trabajo y enseñanza de los otros Apóstoles, pero ciertamente ninguno de ellos –ni siquiera el Apóstol Pablo- logró lo que él ha logrado. A cuarenta años de administración apostólica ha logrado establecer la Iglesia en 35 naciones. Si descontamos los tres países conquistados por el Apóstol de Jesucristo, el hermano Aarón Joaquín, el hermano Samuel Joaquín ha conquistado entonces 32 naciones. Pero, siendo honestos, el trabajo del hermano Aarón, dejó establecido tan sólo un tres de iglesias en El Salvador, una en Honduras y apenas iniciada la obra en los Estados Unidos, específicamente en San Antonio y Los Ángeles. Así que, las más de 100 iglesias en El Salvador, las cerca de 100 iglesias en Estados Unidos y, otras tantas en Honduras o Costa Rica, son trabajo del Apóstol de Jesucristo, nuestro hermano Samuel Joaquín. A cuarenta años de administración apostólica, el Apóstol de Jesucristo cuenta con más de 1500 colaboradores en los 35 países en donde está presente la Iglesia. El Apóstol Pablo contó con cerca de 20 colaboradores suyos, para cuidar a la Iglesia establecida en los primeros años de la era cristiana. Precisamente en esos años, a principios de la era cristiana, no se pudieron establecer lugares para el culto. El Apóstol de Jesucristo, nuestro hermano Samuel, ha impulsado la construcción de más de 1,000 templos, majestuosos templos, edificados para la Gloria de Dios desde el inicio de su administración. Trece fueron las cartas escritas por el Apóstol Pablo. El Apóstol de Jesucristo, nuestro hermano Samuel, lleva escritas en estos cuarenta años de dirección y gobierno de la Iglesia, cerca de mil cartas a la Iglesia, y otras tantas escritas a Ministros o miembros de la Iglesia.”
This is the epitome of blasphemies! He is better than Paul?! And where are these letters to be included in the Holy Bible?! The Holy Bible is a closed work, and nothing will ever be added! LLDM knows no bounds in their hypocrisy and blatant lies.
January 28th, 2010 at 4:19 pm
Eli, thanks for your visit! You are not rambling at all but speaking from the heart and we appreciate your view and telling us your experience. I deeply agree with you in all that you wrote, money was always raised growing tobacco long ago! The church wanted to do away with it because it was (and is) a vice, but quickly changed their minds when they calculated the money they were going to miss out on. And yes, in my father’s family they have sent some of his siblings throughout the years to the poorest of places and live in utter poverty. They never see how the “apostle” only uses them to his monetary benefit.
Goodluck in everything, and we hope you can visit us again.
January 27th, 2010 at 10:59 pm
Eli N.,
your story touched me very much, and reveals much of the truth of the hierarchy of LLDM. I praise God each time I hear about another one of His children whom He has reached down and pulled out from the den of roaring lions.
I often pondered the motivation behind grown, seemingly Biblically knowledgeable men continue preaching a false gospel, and Medina has shown a wide range of reasons for pastors and teachers to continue spreading the false gospel of Samuel Joaquin.
Andrew Jackson’s famous training method for a horse, dog, donkey, etc. was “the carrot and the stick”. It essentially involved what Medina described in keeping the horse chasing after that delicious carrot, but in this, you walk behind the horse carrying a stick. If the horse gets smart enough to figure out that the carrot is on a string and he cannot catch it, he will stop walking. That’s when you whack ‘em with the stick and make the horse move.
I suppose for Samuel, the whacking with a stick would equate to threats of a worse job assignment and a downgrade in quality(or rather luxury) of life; or even worse turning the rest of the church and the “unconditionals” against someone and labeling somebody an “enemy of God.”
Although I know to me, and to many here the doctrines and gospel taught by La Luz Del Mundo are obviously not in line with Scripture, I’ve recently come to realize that groups such as LLDM do serve a purpose in God’s plan. Jesus said that before He returns, there must first be a falling away (an apostasy), and that false messiahs and false christs and false prophets would come, leading people to themselves & away from the true living God, instead of leading them to God through Him.
That is exactly what Samuel Joaquin and many many others are doing. I see signs in this (world religion) and many other aspects of our world which make me believe that His return will be soon.
But while we have His gracious patience, as He waits for that day, and as we wait on Him, we should use the time wisely and take every opportunity we are given to speak out against these false doctrines, and to simply speak the true gospel to people, to our brothers and sisters who we know truly love God, but who have been mislead by those seeking fortune and glory. To all my friends whom I have met through this blog, may God bless your testimonies about Jesus Christ, my prayers are with you as you testify to your loved ones.
I would like to continue now giving some notes on the book of Revelation, and the reason is because I think it is one of the most misunderstood book among LLDM members; most likely because it is often the most exploited by Samuel and his suboardinates (hermosa province supposedly the new Jerusalem of chapter 22; Aaron and Samuel the 2 witnesses of chapter 11; Samuel the angel of chapter 10, etc. etc. etc.).
It is for this reason that I am giving this study to help encourage independent Bible Study by LLDM members with only 1 student – themselves, and 1 teacher – the Holy Spirit.
Please look up all supporting Bible references made by yourselves and let me follow that with my 1st Bible reference of this post – Acts 17:11. The moral of the story in Acts 17:11 is don’t believe anything anybody says, myself included. No, don’t believe me or anybody, but “examine the Scriptures daily” and see for yourselves what is true.
I left off last time at verse 13 of chapter 1 of the Revelation of Jesus Christ. Continuing now with verse 14, John is describing this vision of the glorified Christ:
“His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire. His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters. In his right hand he held seven stars, and out of his mouth came a sharp double-edged sword. His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance.”(Revelation 1:14-16)
“Hair white like wool, as white as snow” – The color of His hair which John saw was not a flat white color, but a blazing, glowing white light.
In 1:13, we saw how this is an echo of part of a vision given to the prophet Daniel, verse 14 continues the echo:
“”As I looked,
“thrones were set in place,
and the Ancient of Days took his seat.
His clothing was as white as snow;
the hair of his head was white like wool.
His throne was flaming with fire,
and its wheels were all ablaze.”(Daniel 7:9)
We will see more of this, in fact all of Scripture concludes with the book of Revelation, by that I mean Genesis 1 (the beginning) is connected to what is coming as foretold in Revelation 22 (the end).
But now this vision seen by John: Like the glory cloud (shekinah), the white hair is a picture of holiness. It speaks of His eternity and His dignity. And John writes “his eyes were like a blazing fire”. Like 2 laser beams, the eyes of the exalted Lord look with penetrating gaze into the depths of His church:
“Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.”(Hebrews 4:13).
This speaks of Christ’s burning, penetrating incite and eyewitness of the total life of the church. He knows all about you, and all about me. Remember when His eyes met with Simon Peter’s when he had denied Him, and Simon Peter went out and wept?
And John writes He had “feet like burnished bronze.” The altar of burnt offering was covered with bronze, and it’s utensils were made of the same material(Exodus 38:1-7):
“They made a horn at each of the four corners, so that the horns and the altar were of one piece, and they overlaid the altar with bronze. They made all its utensils of bronze—its pots, shovels, sprinkling bowls, meat forks and firepans.”(Exodus 38:2,3)
Glowing hot, bronze feet clearly speak of Christ’s divine judgement. Here is a bronze altar outside, His feet, this speaks of His work down here on earth when He died upon the cross, and He bore your judgement and my judgement for sin. He’s judging those that are His own. Jesus Christ with feet of judgement is moving through His church to exercise His chastening authority upon sin.
And John writes His voice is “like the sound of rushing waters”. No longer was His voice like the crystal clear sound of a trumpet (1:10), but John likened it to the crashing of the surf against the rocks of the island. It was the voice of authority:
“and I saw the glory of the God of Israel coming from the east. His voice was like the roar of rushing waters, and the land was radiant with His glory.”(Ezekiel 43:2)
John writes He held 7 stars in His right hand. These are the messengers of the 7 churches. Christ holds them in His hand, which means He controls the church and it’s leaders. That they are stars, however, also indicates that He controls the universe.
John writes that out of His mouth comes a 2 edged sword – this is the Word of God.
“For the Word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double edged sword, even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.”(Hebrews 4:12)
The words from Christ’s mouth will be more devastating than the sharpest samurai sword, as He speaks out judgement on those who physically and spiritually attack His people and destroy His church.
John writes that His “face was like the sun shining in all it’s brilliance”. Oh How Glorious is the Resurrected Christ! He is our great High Priest, shining like the sun – you can’t even look at the sun, do you think you are able to look at the creator of the sun?
Moving along in chapter 1, going very slowly (hehe):
“When I saw Him, I fell at His feet as though dead. Then He placed His right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive forever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.”(Revelation 1:17-18)
Remember how in the gospel of John, John was the one who had a friendly familiarity with Christ when He was here on the earth. He reclined on His bosom in the upper room, and He was very close to the Lord Jesus. But when John saw the glorified Christ on the island of Patmos, he fell at His feet as though dead. While this is a common response to seeing the awesome glory of the Lord (Genesis 17:3; Numbers 16:22; Isaiah 6:1-8; Ezekiel 1:28; Acts 9:4), remember how familiar John was with Him. This was not the same vision John saw even when he saw Him walk across the sea of Galilee and climb into the fishing boat. It was the same man, Jesus was, but He had been Resurrected, He was now in a more glorious body, and He showed Himself to John as He did at the transfiguration, as He truly is, shining with the glory of the Lord. If He were to come to us now, and we would see Him as He truly is, at the right hand of the Father in all of His glory, we would fall at His feet as though dead and worship Him and praise Him. That’s who He is. His constant charge to His church is – repent! He is the glorified Christ today, and there’s actually 4 reasons not to fear here for followers of Christ. 1) He is the First and the Last. He came out of eternity, and He goes into eternity – this speaks of His deity. Note that He is 1st, so there are none which came before Him, and He is Last, so there are none to come after Him. 2) He is the Living One who was dead. This speaks of His death and wonderful Resurrection. 3) Behold, He is alive forevermore. This speaks of His present position, not only judging but making intercession also, and we need that. And 4) He holds the keys of death and Hades. Keys speaks of authority and power. Jesus has power over death and the grave, because of His own death and Resurrection. Fear not – Jesus has the keys of death, and He is the one who can release us from that terrible fear.
“The First and the Last” is applied in the Old Testament to Yahweh (Isaiah 41:4; 44:6)
“Listen to me, O Jacob, Israel whom I have called: I am He; I am the First and I am the Last.”(Isaiah 48:12).
The phrase is applied here to Jesus Christ, also later in Revelation 22. Clearly in both places, Jesus Himself is stating that He is God. Idols will come and go and will take many different forms and styles and techniques; but Jesus was here before them, and He will remain after them.
Interestingly enough, the words “death” and “Hades” are essentially synonyms, but death the condition and Hades (like the Old Testament Sheol) the place of the dead. Christ decides who lives and dies and when.
And now, closing out chapter 1:
“Write, therefore, what you have seen, what is now and what will take place later. The mystery of the seven stars that you saw in my right hand and of the seven golden lamp stands is this: the seven stars are the seven angels of the seven churches, and the seven lamp stands are the seven churches.”(Revelation 1:19-20)
This gives us a simple outline for the rest of the book: “what you have seen” the things which John has just seen (chapter 1), “what is now” – the letters to the 7 churches (Chapters 2 and 3), and the things which will take place later – revelation of future history (chaps. 4-22). Given to us here is the time division of the contents of the apocalypse. A chronological order and division of this book into 3 periods of past, present, and future. I would like to make this division now, and as I go along through the rest of the book, I think I can demonstrate it’s accuracy. Chapter 1 consists of “the things thou has seen”. Up to this point, what has John seen? He’s seen the glorified Christ. The glorified Christ is the One who is the center of this book. Revelation is Christ – o – centric. The Lord Jesus is the subject of it. I don’t care what else is talked about – horsemen, beasts, etc. – don’t get your eyes on that, they’re just passing through. The Lord Jesus Christ is the One who was, and who is, and who will be. He’s the same yesterday, today, and forever, and He tells John to write the things he has seen – the Glorified Christ. The things that are – what are the things that are? It’s the church in the world, it’s still here after 2000 years – the believing ones of these days and that is in chapters 2 and 3. And then you have the program of Jesus Christ, the things that will take place later, that’s the rest of the book. The Greek word used in verse 19 is “metatoutah” it means after these things – the program of Jesus Christ; we will see the church going into heaven there, and the things that will take place on the earth after the church leaves the earth. This is a glorious picture that we have before us. And we need to recognize that the Lord Jesus is the very center and heart of this book. And in verse 20, we can see John will make clear when he’s using symbols, and he will help us understand what the symbols mean. Otherwise, he is talking about the literal thing, and you can’t spiritualize even the symbols, because they are a symbol of something, and he makes that clear here. “This is the mystery” refers to a sacred secret. That which has not been revealed until the time of this writing, until the time it was given to John. And it pertains here specifically to that which John has seen. He has looked upon the Glorified Christ. Paul saw Him, on the Damascus road, but what did he say he saw? A light brighter than the sun. I can’t look at the sun, so I have a feeling Paul couldn’t look directly at the light either. He couldn’t see Him in all of His glory, but He knew that He was there, and it blinded Paul. The 7 stars here are identified as the 7 angels (messengers). Stars represent authority. Apostates today are called wandering stars (Jude 13) “Angels” refers to messengers (messengers is the literal translation from the Greek). Here, it refer to the local pastors of these 7 churches we’re going to look at in chapters 2 and 3. “7 golden lamp stands” represent the 7 churches of Asia, and they in turn represent the church as a whole – the church as the Body of Christ and the complete history of the church throughout all eras of church history.
As always, feel free to give feedback whether you agree, disagree, learned something new, have something to elaborate on or show me, or simply don’t care.
I will begin notes on chapter 2 next time, until then may God richly bless you my beloved.
January 27th, 2010 at 1:13 pm
Dear Eli N.,
God’s blessings to you and I give praise to the Holy Spirit that you were able to read the Holy Bible and see the truth of salvation only in Jesus Christ and not through anyone else.
Your brief testimony truly touches on very spiritual issue that comes from LLDM and its doctrine of salvation through an earthly, sin-born man.
You hit the nail right on the head when you said, “I still read the bible but with a different mind with different heart.” The heart is the focal point and if one’s heart is for anyone other then Jesus Christ 100% you will not be able to understand the truth of the Word of God and therefore open to any kind of manipulation and false teachings.
Just as the apostle John taught in his letter (1 John 4) on how to test the spirits. He states very clearly if one is not listening to the Spirit of Jesus Christ than you are listening to the spirit of the antichrist. You can not listen to both at the same time.
As for the seemly criminal act of the collection (tithing) for Samuel is one of free will for members of LLDM. I do have to hand it to them for putting the wallets were their hearts are.
And, I too have always felt great pain for the poor lives that the pastors live and the fact that they willing do so not out of love for Christ Jesus, but to promote the faith of salvation in their master Samuel.
I came face-to-face with this fact 2 years ago with one of the past pastors, while giving the Sunday school service, began to go faint and started to pass out and was caught by a few of the choir members that were sited next to him. These members carried him to the house next to the church with me following them.
To make a long story short, he had a suffered heart-attack and was taken to the hospital for emergency by-pass surgery. After a few weeks he was able to return home, weakened but was able to resume his pasturing duties.
Well this is what floored me. A few months later the member in charge of the finances informed the congregation that the bill from the hospital was over $60K dollars and that a special collection had to take place to pay for the bill! This got my hairs up and I started asking questions.
1. What about his insurance? Answer – He doesn’t have any.
2. Doesn’t the church (LLDM) have insurance for the pastors that they control? Answer – No.
3. So, even though LLDM controls the comings and goings of the pastors the congregation has to pay the bill? Answer – Yes.
The last that I heard about this was that the congregation had to beg for a loan from Samuel to pay for the medical bills and even though the pastor has long since left the congregation it is still to this day is making payments on the loan from Samuel. A loan that was for his authorized pastor to pay for the medical bills that saved his life!
No money comes out of the pocket of Samuel with out payback; that is unless it is for his glorification and I think even very little at that.
And the traveling to Mexico, Samuel even has that covered. The congregations are instructed to use a special travel agency to make their travel arrangements to get to Guadalajara. And guess how owns it? That’s right Samuel and his family.
My wife’s family traveled to Guadalajara last August and had purchased tickets online. After the event they found out that other members had paid 100s more for the same flight. The difference was that they had book through the “special travel agency” of LLDM. I not think that the airline got the extra money.
I pray that your testimony can continue with the support of the Holy Spirit to be heard and read by others of LLDM that maybe asking the same questions that you asked and can find the truth just as you did.
To quote you – “Salvation is a gift and we don’t need to beat ourselfs to receive it, all we need is believe and confess.”
Straight from Paul’s own heart (Romans 10:8-13).
God blessing to you through our Lord and Master – Jesus Christ, Amen.
January 26th, 2010 at 5:56 pm
Transcribo el presente comentario del blog en wordpress intitulado “La Luz del Mundo, El Delito como Religión”.
Lo hago en el idioma original pues sé que la mayoría de los lectores de este blog entienden español y no quiero cambiar su substancia pues me parece muy interesante:
Para “Triste” y todos los lectores:
Me sorprende (y esto sin ánimo de ofenderte) que llames “Apóstol” al autor de todas esas herejías que estás descubriendo en LLDM.
El comentario que mencionas de Samuel Joaquín en su presentación en San Salvador, es uno de sus incongruencias mas notorias. En la misma presentación y a grito en pecho expresó que ” Fuera de la Luz del Mundo (y no se refería a Cristo) NO HAY SALVACION”!
Aún la ICAR con su historia dogmática ha cambiado su postura al ver que a la gente ya no se le da “atole con el dedo”
Joseph Ratzinger, teólogo defensor de la doctrina católica mundial escribió que el dogma “extra Ecclesia nulla salus” (fuera de la iglesia católica no hay salvación) no tenía sentido a la luz de los recientes descubrimientos geográficos que establecen y prueban que la tierra no tiene de creada 4,000 años sino 4,000,000 o más y por consiguiente no es obsolet creer que todas las personas que vivieron durante ese tiempo se CONDENARON.
Actualmente Joseph Ratzinguer es nada más y nada menos que el actual Papa Benedicto XVI!
Samuel Joaquín y su aberrante “doctrina apostólica” está atrasado y se vuelve a imitar a su admirado ejemplo a seguir, la ICAR.
Conozco a varios “cerebritos” doctrinales en LLDM que se la pasas bebiéndose los libros de los padres de la Iglesia (Católica claro) y son los máximos admiradores de su estructura jerárquica y organizacional. Entre ellos, Daniel Nuñez Avalos y Eliezer Gutierrez quienes no ocultan su admiración por la ICAR. Incluyo entre ellos a Samuel Joaquín cuya biblioteca personal esta formada casi íntegramente de las obras completas de San Agustín de Hipona y Santo Tomás de Aquino entre otros algunos “incunables”.
Si la LLDM quiere trascender los tiempos y llegar más allá del siglo, tendrá que adoptar una VERDADERA REFORMA que comienze por la erradicación absoluta de la falsa dinastía apostólica y sus privilegios deleznables.
NO HAY NADA DE CRISTIANO EN FORJAR NOBLEZAS ABUSIVAS Y CORRUPTAS!
DESPIERTEN HERMANOS DE LA LUZ DEL MUNDO!
Comentario por Yanni LaChiflan 26,Enero 2010 @ 7:44 pm
El link al documento mencionado:
http://www.traditioninaction.org/ProgressivistDoc/A_006_RatzingerSalvation.htm
January 25th, 2010 at 9:01 pm
The motivation that drives the hierarchy of LLDM to servile service to Samuel Joaquin and his governing family varies within an ample spectrum of motives.
Generally, Samuel uses the pursuit of higher levels in the hierarchy as the primary drive.
I call it “The Carrot Principle” or more appropriately in spanish ” La técnica de la longaniza inalcanzable”.
This principle consists in to tie a stick to the head of a horse and put a succulent carrot hanging by a twine in front of it.
In theory, the horse will pursue the carrot indefinitely pulling the cart behind him with the hope of enjoying the sweetness of the carrot, but never achieving his goal.
In the mexican version, consists in putting a stick tied to the dog’s head with a string of delicious chorizo ( spicy sausage) hanging way ahead of reach.
The result is the same. The master makes the dog to walk indefinitely without spending in sausages.
This is of course using a stupid dog for the purpose (I particularly do not think dogs are that stupid).
Translation: The ministers pursue the climbing in the hierarchy thinking that Samuel is good intentioned and just. Just an illusion!
Others more cunning, devious, shrewd and Machiavellian share the glory and royal treatment in the process and use the “apostolic privileges” for his own amusement and carnal satisfaction.
This class also amass wealth even against the will of Samuel and are the target of his continuous harangues and public criticism for “stealing” from God and prostituting Jesus’s wife, the church. Samuel sometimes even cries in front of them and claims: “Do not make me feel sad doing that brothers!”
There are few with a sincere calling to serve God, but their spiritual vision is obnubilated with fanaticism and the continuous indoctrination in the “election” creed.
January 25th, 2010 at 5:11 pm
I stumble across this blog while just being curious as to what has happenned to my childhood church. I was a 3rd generation lldm. I am 34 years old now, left mexico when I was 15. I went to school here, graduated from college as well as my wife. I still remember my grandmother beating me “en el nombre del sen~or” because i missed the 6:00 pm. service, anyway that’s another issue of its own. When I was around 8 years old I started to read the bible, I mean really read the bible, since we had no books at school the bible was about the only thing available for me to read. I really love reading the bible, i started to ask questions to the my pastor and he would explain some of the topics that i woudn’t understand. One of the things that I still remember to this point is when my pastor told me that “if I wanted to be saved believing in SJF was instrumental”. at that time I did believe in him but I put a hypotethical and was told it was imposible to be saved with out believing in SJF. I was told that this was the reason we were the only true church and the fact that we had an apostol set as apart from every other denomination and that we were the only ones that were going to be saved. I still don’t know how to explain how I felt, the only memory i have of that moment is that i went back to the bible and try to make sense of that. I remember many reprimands from my grand mother who is a “die hard” member of the church. growing up in the church God to me was like a cop or a judge and an executioner, if i get out of line he will strike me down from heaven. I was fearful of him. Everything was about what i could do to gain my salvation. By the time I was 12 or so I was very knowledgable of the bible and because my uncles use to treat me like pest i would spent most of my time at the pastoral house and was favor with the pastor. It was around this time that I started noticing how the pastor lived. They were dirt poor. I mean most of the times the only thing they had to eat was tortillas and chile or just salt. My grand ma was the “tesorera” she would gather the tithe every sunday and it was mailed to guadalajara, 100% of it. Keep in mind that we lived in a very small town and most of the members were peasants who worked on the tobaco fields. the pastor only live of the extra offering, needless to say that once they tithe there was almost nothing left to offer. I use to questioned my grand mother about this, she will say don’t questioned is just the way things are. “but the pastoral family don’t have anthing to eat?” “then is the members fault because they are not giving enough”. It was very sad seen all of that specially because they had small children and they didn’t choose to be there, at age 14 i was baptize and then i knew at that time i need it to received the holy spirit to be saved, in order to get the holy spirit i had to speak in tonges. so i tried and tried and tried and nothing. some of my friends did according to my pastor spoke in tonges but i never did. I guess i’m never going to be saved. When i left mexico and came here i land it on a town that had no local church so i stop going but I missed it. then I started to read news and questioning some of those things what were going on in Guadalajara. for example, why does SJF has all this luxuries and some of the pastors have nothing and I mean absolutly nothing. Why do you have to trouble all the way to Guadalajara to celebrate the last supper and spend all this money that many members don’t even have, I mean seriously, most of this members are dirt poor. Anyway, it took me a while to trust in the lord and have a relationship with him because of the unfounded believed instilled in my the this church, I still read the bible but with a different mind with different heart. I go back to my little town in mexico every now and then and go to church with grand ma, not because i enjoy it or because i want to get spiritual fulfillment but because it make my grand ma happy. the weird thing about it is that, the same people are still there, the parents of my friends that I was growing up with except that they are smaller and full of wrinkles. not one of my friends is there, most of them are drug addicts and hate the church and their parents for making them go when they were growing up. I pray for my friend and I pray for grand ma and hope only that God may allow for her to see things the way they are suppose to be. Salvation is a gift and we don’t need to beat ourselfs to receive it, all we need is believe and confess. As sinners he tells us to get up and try to change our hearts from sin, that is the hardest part. Anyway thank you all for the posts and the opportunity to ramble
… God bless.
January 25th, 2010 at 4:05 pm
hy,
So if just the family sees a wealth from LLDM, what is the motivation from the pastors, and other lower class citizens in hierarhy. Do you guys think, they honestly believe in SJF, and just spreading his message? or they like as well to be treated as a royalty at the local churches, which I noticed kind of are treated that way.
January 25th, 2010 at 3:36 pm
The analogy of the control of power in LLDM to “The Mafia Style” is very clear and real.
In the Mafia style, you should be a member of “the family” from Sicilia in order to be part of the bussiness. The operands however get a small piece of the cake, sometimes just the crumbs.
The same control exist in LLDM. If you are not a member of “the family Joaquín”, no matter how good your contribution or merits are, you will never share the wealth and privileges of “the royal family”.
Your position and good standing in the church is dictated by the whims of “the apostle” and his dolphins.
If you are a minister and happened to badmouth one of the offsprings of SJF even though you are right and have the reason on your side, you are in trouble!
I have seen many ministers from USA to be sent to the most remote and poor villages in Mexico or Central America as punishment for doing this. Others were not so lucky and were removed from the ministry and sent home without even thank them for the time they served.
Usually the ones in this category that leave LLDM are considered “traitors”, apostates and rebels and even their families that remain in LLDM consider them a threat and a shame. This is considered as an spiritual death.
That is the control Samuel has over the hierarchy.
January 25th, 2010 at 1:31 pm
Frank Medina,
It was me that used the analogy of a “Mafia” style of control.
Thank you for your insightful description of the general flow of money. The contribution collections for Samuel and his wife, or for any new major church that is beginning built, reminds me of the old style “mop security” in the big cities of America not so long ago.
When a gang boss would send his “goons” to collect money weekly from business owners in their area of control for “security” against vandalism or even death, but not from other mop gangs but from them; the every gang that was collecting the money in the first place!
But in the case of the “business of religion”, LLDM is the “ la familia” with Samuel the current “mop boss” and his pastors the “goons”, but the pay off is to stay in his good grace and to not loss his blessings of yearly prayers for forgiveness of sins.
Of course this is more on the local, poor congregational level. At the “big game” level, i.e. East LA and Huston, it is all about which pastor has the greatest control of the “sheep” so that they will stand out to Samuel and be in “la familia’s” good grace when the next “change of command” comes.
Much the same as in the old days with kings so long as the current king was alive all of those under him were safe. But if you were not in the good graces with the next in line for the throne, watch out because you would usually lose your head!
And with LLDM there is a next in line apostle; there has to be because with out an apostle LLDM will have no reason to exist. And the next logical step would be that it will have to be one of Samuel’s sons other wise how will the future of the family to secure.
Do you have any thoughts as to who this might be?
January 25th, 2010 at 10:59 am
Christopher:
The reason for the continuous solicitation of money for gifts for “the apostle” of LLDM is to guarantee the survival of the ministers in the “ministry” and to gain the favor of SJF and/or his sons.
Therefore the competition of the congregations to provide the best and more costly gift to Samuel.
In other hand, Samuel is always providing for the inheritance to his descendants which multiply as rabbits. It won’t be to long when every single LLDM congregation would be controlled by a Joaquin descendant.
This is not more than a MAfia Style Cult as somebody pointed out very precisely in this blog.
In Guadalajara, Uziel Joaquin started already the annual machinery to provide the every year’s most fatuous celebrations for his father.
The solicitation of money for the “apostle” and his family it’s a non ending story, meanwhile more than 50% of the members just of East L.A. congregation lives in government subsidized housing and on Welfare.
What a round business! It’s not surprise that Samuel is pushing so hard the franchises of LLDM all over the world, but not for the sake of the souls but their money!
January 25th, 2010 at 3:40 am
Hello everyone.
I would like to continue giving my notes on the Book of Revelation.
I left off last time at chapter 1, verse 8. Continuing now beginning with 1:9 –
“I, John, your brother and companion in the suffering and kingdom and patient endurance that are ours in Jesus, was on the island of Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus.”(Revelation 1:9)
There are 4 characteristics shared among John and his believing readers. 1) persecution for their faith, 2) membership in the redeemed community over which Christ is Lord and King, 3) eager anticipation of the glory of His coming millenial reign on earth, and 4) endurance and perseverance in spite of difficult times. John wrote this book from the “island called Patmos”, which is located in the Aegean Sea off the coast of Turkey, and part of a group of about 50 islands. Patmos is a barren, rocky, crescent shaped island about 10 miles long and 6 miles wide at it’s widest point. It served as a Roman penal colony. According to Eusebius (an early Christian historian), Rome’s Emperor Nerva (96 – 98 AD) released John from Patmos. John was in trouble, suffering for the Word. The Roman Emperor had put John in prison on the isle of Patmos. He was active in the church at Ephesus, and he had supervision of all the churches, and he was teaching the Word of God. You get in trouble teaching the Word of God. John knew all about trouble and so did the early church, they were heavily persecuted, and the “suffering” (or “tribulation”) John refers to in verse 9 refer to their persecution. “kingdom” here refers to the current state of the Kingdom. John was exiled to Patmos from about 86 to 96 AD. He is describing why he was sent there (teaching the Word and witnessing for Jesus). When John wants to bring glory to Him, he calls Him Jesus. A great vision was given to John – 1st, the Glorified Christ, the post-incarnate Christ in a glorified body, judging His church, i.e. the great High Priest (Hebrews 3:1), in the Holy of Holies. John begins by saying it was given to him on the isle of Patmos.
“On the Lord’s Day I was in the Spirit, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet, which said: “Write on a scroll what you see and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia and Laodicea.”(Revelation 1:10-11)
This was not a dream, John was supernaturally transported out of the material world awake – not sleeping – to an experience beyond normal senses. The Holy Spirit empowered his senses to perceive Revelation from God (similar to an experience had by Peter – “He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners.”(Acts 10:11))
In early Christian writings “the Lord’s Day” refers to sunday (the day of the Lord’s Resurrection). By it’s context of verse 10, this does not refer to the Day of the Lord. Although the book of Revelation will deal with the beginning of the Great Day of the Lord, the great tribulation, and then the millenial kingdom. But John says he was in the spirit on the Lord’s Day. Lord’s Day is different from the Day of the Lord. As I mentioned, Lord’s Day refers to what we call sunday. The loud voice sounding like a trumpet which John hears indicates throughout Revelation the solemnity of what God is about to reveal. The Holy Spirit here is doing his office work (revealing truth about God and Christ).
“But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.”(John 16:13) – Jesus sais the Holy Spirit reveals truth about Christ and he shows it to us. We are now getting here this vision of the Glorified Christ, only the Holy Spirit can make it real to us. This is why I attempt to go over Revelation so boldly, because I know that Christ is alive at the right hand of the Father and the Holy Spirit will work in those whom He wills. We are considering Jesus Christ in His office today as the Great High Priest. John was in the spirit was moving upon John and giving a panoramic picture. John is told “write on a scroll” (or “write in a book”) the Greek word translated “book” or “scroll” refers to a scroll made of parchment, formed by Papyrus, a reed that grows along the Nile.
“I turned around to see the voice that was speaking to me. And when I turned I saw seven golden lampstands, and among the lampstands was someone “like a son of man,” dressed in a robe reaching down to his feet and with a golden sash around his chest.”(Revelation 1:12-13)
John had heard a voice like a trumpet (a war trumpet).
“For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.”(1 Thessalonians 4:16-17)
The voice of the Glorified Christ is like a trumpet. This is a vision of Jesus Christ. 7 Golden lampstands reminds us of the tabernacle. But instead of 1 stand with 7 branches, we have 7 separate lampstands, because all represent the Holy Spirit, and the 7 separate churches, but that the churches are all the same (because there is only 1 Holy Spirit).
You can be a light in the world because Jesus Christ is the light of the world, but until He returns, we must walk in His light, and be a light in the world.
We see Jesus Christ here in His position as High Priest. The garments John describes him as wearing (robe and golden sash) were the garments of the High Priest.
“Make sacred garments for your brother Aaron, to give him dignity and honor.”
“These are the garments they are to make: a breastpiece, an ephod, a robe, a woven tunic, a turban and a sash. They are to make these sacred garments for your brother Aaron and his sons, so they may serve me as priests.”(Exodus 28:2,4)
It all represents the inherant righteousness of Christ. In Him is no sin, and He knew no sin. Emphasis here is on His strength, and not service (it speaks of His judgement in truth). We are asked to consider our great High Priest (Hebrews 3:1), and He’s standing in the middle of His churches, judging His churches. Judging believers; that the light might continue to shine. Scripture doesn’t leave us in the dark regarding what Jesus is doing today. He has 3 definite ministries 1) mediator – there is the intercession of Christ. Our Great High Priest, standing at the Golden Altar in Heaven today, where He lives forever, and He lives to make intercession for us. 2) rabbi(teacher) – there is the intervention of Christ. He steps out of the Holy place to the labor, where He washes the feet of those who are His own. He washes whoever will come to Him to confess His sins, and if we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. He intervenes on our behalf. He’s made it that way so that we will not sin. But if anyone sins, we have an advocate with God the Father – Jesus Christ. He’s there to defend us against all accusers and satan is the accuser. Then #3) Judge – there is the inspection of Christ. He sat down because He had finished redemption. He died down here to save us, He lives up there to keep us saved. I think He’s busier keeping us saved. The Inspection of Christ – where He is now, we see Him walking in the midst of the lampstands. In Exodus, we see the Golden lamp stand furnacing the tabernacle. The lampstands described here have 1 large stick(candle holder) in the middle with 3 candle holders on each side. The lamps represent the Holy Spirit, but the lampstand itself represents Christ, the Glorified Christ, Christ in His Deity. The Holy Spirit – Christ sent Him into the world, the Golden lampstand holds up the lamps, but the lamps in turn reveal the beauty of the lampstand. I trust the Holy Spirit will reveal Christ, illuminate Him in His glory, and make Him real. It’s not very popular to surrender to the Holy Spirit and let Him inspect you. People don’t like to be inspected. But we see Jesus Christ amongst the lampstands – the job of the High Priest. High Priest had sole control of the lampstands. Other priests were in charge of other things, but the Great High Priest was in charge of the lampstands. He lit the lamps, He poured in the oil, trimmed the wicks. If one of the lamps was flickering, not giving very clear light, He would just snuff it out. This is what Christ does today with His church, and with individual believers if they are not giving very clear light. He wants some fruit from our branches, so He trims them, and He wants some light from our lamps so He trims the wicks to get a bright light. He pours in the Holy Spirit (oil). Jesus Christ is Head of the Church, He sent the Holy Spirit, He said He would. When He (Holy Spirit) comes, He doesn’t do (or let you do) whatever He (or you) wants, but what the Lord Jesus sent Him to do. He is Head of the church. The Holy Spirit is in the world. If there is any light in this study, the Holy Spirit is doing it, because there is no light in me – I found that out long ago. Each lampstand here represents a church (1:20), from which the light of life shone. Throughout Scripture, 7 is the number of completeness, so these 7 churches are representative of the complete history of all churches throughout all ages of church history. When John says He saw one “like a son of man”, first of all, He echoes one of the visions given the end time prophet Daniel.
“”In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence.”(Daniel 7:13)
According to the Gospels “Son of Man” is the title Christ used most often for Himself during His earthly ministry (81 times in the Gospels). Taken from a heavenly vision from Daniel 7:13, it is an implied claim to Deity. Most occurrences of the Greek Word used for “Robe” in the Septuagint (Greek translation of OT), refer to the garment of a High Priest. The golden sash across the chest completes the picture of Christ serving in His Priestly role:
“The LORD spoke to Moses after the death of the two sons of Aaron who died when they approached the LORD. 2 The LORD said to Moses: “Tell your brother Aaron not to come whenever he chooses into the Most Holy Place behind the curtain in front of the atonement cover on the ark, or else he will die, because I appear in the cloud over the atonement cover.
3 “This is how Aaron is to enter the sanctuary area: with a young bull for a sin offering and a ram for a burnt offering. 4 He is to put on the sacred linen tunic, with linen undergarments next to his body; he is to tie the linen sash around him and put on the linen turban. These are sacred garments; so he must bathe himself with water before he puts them on.”(Leviticus 16:1-4)
“For this reason he had to be made like his brothers in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people.”(Hebrews 2:17)
I will continue beginning with Revelation 1:14 another time.
For the Glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Grace and peace be to all of you.
January 24th, 2010 at 10:31 pm
Just a couples of weeks ago the current pastor (one of 4 over the past 6 years!) has started in with the yearly request for money gift offerings for Samuel’s birthday.
I have often wondered, for what? He doesn’t need money!
January 24th, 2010 at 3:29 pm
Generally, when we question a member of LLDM about the riches of Samuel Joaquín Flores, they respond with this:
“He do not ask us for anything, We give him gladly everything he has and needs and if We could, we would making him live as a king, because as Paul the apostle said, IF I HAVE GIVEN YOU THE SPIRITUAL THINGS , IT IS TOO MUCH FOR YOU TO GIVE ME THE MATERIAL THINGS?”.
This statement is a total fallacy. First, the fact that “they give him everything without being asked” does not exclude him from Jesus teachings, He still is a filthy rich greedy leader.
Second, the reverse psychology used by Samuel works perfectly. He does not ask for anything, but his pastors and “unconditionals” do through several techniques. Specially the “prince pastors” like Naason, Benny, Uzziel and Atlai. They manage to “inspire” the congregation in California to give a special gift to the “apostle”, a YATCH, who he barely uses and is about to finish the same way as all the costly gifts he has been given through the years, rottening for lack of use and maintenance.
Recently, one of the “princes” of the Joaquín dinasty, Naason, arrived at a gathering in Pomona, CA to thank the organizers of the event at the Kodak Theater to honor SJF for his “lifetime accomplishments in favor of the whole humanity” in a luxurious Land Rover SUV.
In the event, after thanking the organizers for his “spontaneous effort” he told the invited, mostly southern california ministers, to share the blessing of building a proper house for the “apostle” adjacent to the new project in Silao, Guanajuato, Mexico.
The responsibility of the ministers is to “motivate” the congregation to make special offerings (money) for this purpose.
The congregation of LLDM ignores that the main shareholder of the development is precisely SJF. Besides that, he (SJF) owns a ranch with luxurious accomodations no more than 3/4 of a mile from the project “Tower of Faith” in construction.
The purpose of these is to always have a pretext for the exploitation of the “faith” (I would call it credulity) of the poor members of LLDM.
LLDM members are not innocent at all, they are trying to buy their salvation through money.
Peter the aposltle said to someone trying to buy the grace of God, “you and your money will perish”!
January 23rd, 2010 at 10:47 am
Jesus SAYS (Matthew 6:19):
“Don’t collect for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal. But collect for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys, and where thieves don’t break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.”
Now, tell me Frank (LLDM) or LLDM members… is Samuel following this command or is he not? As your spiritual leader is he or is he not amassing mansions, properties, fancy cars, and Italian design clothes? There you have it. Though Jesus himself says not to collect treasures on earth, Samuel Joaquin Flores does exactly that. That an average person like you and I may fall into collecting treasures is understandable, but a true apostle? A true apostle would not. You recognize apostles by their fruit! By their example. NONE of the biblical apostles were are monetary rich as your Samuel… money and power corrupts.
January 23rd, 2010 at 10:44 am
I’m sorry, Sum!
I think I may have accidentally hit the ‘block’ button when blocking ‘really doesn’t matter’.
January 21st, 2010 at 5:11 pm
Oscar
I was not able to get on line for a wile I thought you deleted me and I was not sure why but it is working now. Did you delete really do-sent matter? or is that some one else?
January 21st, 2010 at 2:52 pm
“Time for Salvation” Is Forever!
The apostles Peter and Paul never taught that with their deaths the “time for salvation” would end; it is quit the opposite in fact.
I make this claim from Peter and Paul’s words.
First take a look at what Peter wrote in his letter to all Christians.
(2 Peter 1:12-15)
“12So I will always remind you of these things, even though you know them and are firmly established in the truth you now have. 13I think it is right to refresh your memory as long as I live in the tent of this body, 14because I know that I will soon put it aside, as our Lord Jesus Christ has made clear to me.
15And I will make every effort to see that after my departure you will always be able to remember these things.”
In this passage Peter is reminding all to remain “firmly established” in all that they have learned about salvation through Jesus Christ – the truth and in verse 15 Peter is telling them that even after he is dead he will continue to provide help by way of his letters and from those whom the Holy Spirit had placed as locate congregational leaders (elders).
Why would Peter make such a point to stress to the Christians that he will “make every effort” to make sure that they will have all that they need for salvation if with his death all who are under his authority will loss their salvation and salvation would be withheld from those who have yet to come to Christ?
Now let’s take a look at what Paul had to say with the approach of his death in his last letter to Timothy from his prison cell in Rome just before Nero had him beheaded.
(2 Timothy 3:1-5)
1But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them.
(2 Timothy 4:1-5)
1In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom,
I give you this charge:
2Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction. 3For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.
5But you, keep your head in all situations, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, discharge all the duties of your ministry.
(2 Timothy 4:6-8)
6For I am already being poured out like a drink offering, and the time has come for my departure.
7I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. 8Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day—and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing.
In these passages Paul is clearly giving to Timothy instructions on what to look out for, what to avoid, and what to do when he, Paul, is taken from this world with “I give you this charge”.
The same question that I asked regarding Peter also applies to Paul as well.
Why would Paul make such an effort to write and get this letter to Timothy stressing the importants of remaining in the faith and the teachings of salvation through Jesus Christ if Paul thought that the “time for salvation” was through him and would end with his death?
The answers to both of these questions are that neither Peter nor Paul ever believed or taught in their letters that the time for salvation was measured by their lives.
What they taught and recorded in their letters is that the time for salvation started with the Jesus Christ’s sacrifice of sinless blood on the cross (1 Peter 1:2) and would never leave us because “the word of the Lord stands forever”, as Peter wrote in his first letter to all Christians.
(1 Peter 1:24-25)
24For,
“All men are like grass,
and all their glory is like the flowers of the field;
the grass withers and the flowers fall,
25but the word of the Lord stands forever.” And this is the word that was preached to you.
Since the “word of the Lord stands forever” and any thing that stands is not moving; Peter is clearly stating that the gospel of Jesus Christ – the Word – is here in the same place forever ready for those who by faith will believe in him for salvation.
The “time for salvation” is Forever because the Lord Jesus Christ is Forever!
Grace and peace be yours in abundance.
January 21st, 2010 at 2:28 pm
Oscar,
Since I come from an old family in Hermosa Provincia and being this neighborhood so small, It’s impossible not to be intertwined with “the family”. Some of my sisters and nephews are related to the extended family of Samuel Joaquin Flores, others serve very close to “the apostle”.
However, Samuel Joaquin does not share his profits to anybody no matter the level of education or control they have in LLDM UNLESS it is related very close to his sons or daughters.
That is the source of the resentment the families of his sisters and brother have against him, although they don’t show it openly.
His excuse in his own words is that “This is the inheritance that my father left to my alone and I am not obliged to share it”. He is refering to the “apostleship” and his privileges.
One example is his son in law, Daniel Nuñez Avalos, married to Betsy Joaquín García who has been enjoying his wife’s privileges as “princess” being sent to get a Doctorate in Law in the Universidad Complutense de Madrid while being the bishop in Europe. Before that, he has been sent to very comfortable locations, never in a place were his princess wife would suffer or need something she is accustomed to.
In the case of Frank (LLDM) I have not met with him previously and have not idea who he is or his role in LLDM. One thing I know is that he is not authorized or sent officially by LLDM or SJF. Samuel’s strategy is not to show his face when he is attacked.
About Gilberto García Granados, he was in charge of the counterintelligence against the accusers of Samuel in 1997. He even published a book to “clean up” Samuel’s image, although it was sold only to the members of LLDM.
Now his personal image and the church’s is handled by a company, CCB (Casa Cultural Berea, property of SJF and they even have a branch in the USA, CCBUSA. It’s a multimedia/advertising/internet powerhouse that exploits the presentations of the “apostle” and all the big ceremonies in LLDM as well as webcasts, streaming and website hosting for all the congregations in LLDM worldwide.
CCB also recruits the most capable people in digital technologies to work for the “apostle”. Since they have the economical support of LLDM members, they have unlimited resources to pursue the directives of SJF. This is the monster we are facing with the help of the Lord.
January 20th, 2010 at 3:02 pm
Greetings, my friends.
Hope all are doing well. I am a tad bit disappointed that “Agnostic” or the “original Frank” did not respond to my last comment. Perhaps, it was too fool-proof for him to crack? Maybe he still is tired of charging at the windmills to no avail. I decided to block Micael, because the conversation was redundant and he refused to listen to any reason… I do respect how fervently he defended his beliefs, though. He is only 17, and I wish him the best. I find the original Frank much more interesting, but he may be engaged in cleaning up his apostle’s image in other blogs.
Medina, you seem to have met him in other blogs, care to shed some light on who we are up against? You mentioned Granados and some type of software… The Ph.D’s and Master’s degree people surrounding LLDM are puzzling to me as well. I have always given credit to Samuel for being surrounded by an elite circle. They are nigh-impenetrable. If anything, many of those highly educated members are more than likely getting a slice of the cake. One more thing, I know I am treading on thin ice, but do you or Infiltrado know or have come across LLDM intertwined with “La Familia”? I am sure you guys know what I am asking…
January 19th, 2010 at 11:22 pm
eliv,
As I mentioned before, I was born in LLDM in a 4th generation family.
My grand grand parents left their properties and belongings in their hometown to move to Guadalajara and to found Hermosa Provincia circa 1955.
Being one of the sons of a Pastor “ordained” by Eusebio “Aarón” Joaquín González, I learned from my early years that “the apostle” could not be questioned in any aspect or you would be found “resisting God”.
When you are born and thought in LLDM since your early tears, you think that there is no other truth in the whole world and your life gravitates around LLDM and his “apostle”. Everything else is false and wrong. Even the search for knowledge and education was labeled “animal and diabolic” and oposed to the will of God.
When you are young, your highest desire and dreams are to “serve the one sent by God”, Samuel Joaquín Flores and you see the world through his eyes.
One way to justify or perceive his wrongdoings is to blame the accuser and think that they are lying because are driven by the devil.
Moreover, being part of the “unconditionals” is to be subject to a more strong indoctrination in which you should relinquish your freedom, life and specially, your inner thoughts and perception of justice.
I even question myself now, How I was able to be so blind?
I think the reason is that the enemy of God helps him because he is driving thousands of souls away from worshiping the only and real God.
I can not find other reason for his power and influence in such a mass of people in which there are even people with Master and Ph. D. degrees.
But only people borne in LLDM can understand this way of thinking. This perception of reality is even more acute in the feminine sex.
January 19th, 2010 at 8:55 pm
To Frank Medina,
You seem to be a wittness of a lot of unjustices in LLDM before you left. I am really interested how did you justify all of that in your head, did you honestly believed that what ever Samuel was doing, was not a sin, illegal? Could you comment on that a bit?
January 19th, 2010 at 1:10 pm
Frank Medina,
Very true of the way people in LLDM and other groups are sucked in little by little until they are trapped. Reminds me of the words spoken through the prophet Isaiah:
“Who is it he is trying to teach?
To whom is he explaining his message?
To children weaned from their milk,
to those just taken from the breast?
For it is:
Do and do, do and do,
rule on rule, rule on rule;
a little here, a little there.”
Very well then, with foreign lips and strange tongues
God will speak to this people,
to whom he said,
“This is the resting place, let the weary rest”;
and, “This is the place of repose”—
but they would not listen.
So then, the word of the LORD to them will become:
Do and do, do and do,
rule on rule, rule on rule;
a little here, a little there—
so that they will go and fall backward,
be injured and snared and captured.
Therefore hear the word of the LORD, you scoffers
who rule this people in Jerusalem.
You boast, “We have entered into a covenant with death,
with the grave we have made an agreement.
When an overwhelming scourge sweeps by,
it cannot touch us,
for we have made a lie our refuge
and falsehood our hiding place.” (Isaiah 28:9-15)
January 19th, 2010 at 11:49 am
HOW TO COOK A LIVE FROG
You’ve probably heard this story, a metaphor really, about how to cook a frog.
If you put a live frog directly into a pot of hot water, she’ll jump out. But if you put the frog in comfy, tepid water, she’ll just sit there. Slowly increase the heat one degree at a time and the frog will sit quietly in the pot and get cooked.
Sounds horrid, doesn’t it? But that’s the strategy used by all the CULTS as LLDM.
They offer you a nice, warm and full of “Christian” love and camaraderie environment.
If you are through a difficult situation like suffering spouse abuse, child abuse, alone in the U.S.A., or any other situation that lowers your self esteem you are vulnerable and prone to get caught in the spider web of a CULT.
They start with light rules and little by little by little They add up commandments, demands and obligations that if shown from the beginning, you would have run away from them. But They know we are prone to comfort and conformity.
If you are a woman and accustomed to wear slacks and you ask if you need to change your way of dress to comply with LLDM dress code, They would say, “no, it is not mandatory to wear long skirts, you will use them when you feel that you need to wear them”. Translation: You will wear long skirts when the social pressure and criticism from your piers and pastors become unbearable.
If you ask at the beginning if you need to pay the tithe, They would say: “When you feel doing it, you will.”: Translation, When the reprimands from the pastor for being greedy to “God” become insufferable, you will do it! And the list continues.
Do you find this story familiar to you?
Maybe you are now “medium well, or well done cooked by know.
January 18th, 2010 at 9:13 am
Issac:
And I say that you DONT BELIEF IN JESUSCHRIST because you need “others men” for being choosen by God, Hey!!! HEY!!! you must understand that GOD alreadly HAS SENT to his belover SON, JESUSCHRIST!!
Hebrews
1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high.
HOW DARE YOU AND YOUR SECT to compare simple men, simple creatures, mortal men WITH THE HOLY AND UNIC SON OF GOD?.
I HOPE the LORD forgive your terrible idolatric sin!. get repent NOW!! tomorrow may be too late.
January 18th, 2010 at 8:55 am
Frank Medina said:
“LLDM is a cult, a very DANGEROUS organization”
That is sadly TRUE. Did anybody hear Samuel Joaquin’s Speach the past December 31? “La velada” as Samuelita knows the cult to celebrate the new year.
Well, Samuel claimed to be CHRIST HIMSELF!!! He used the Parable that Christ said about the Lord of the vineyard and his keeper (Luke 13:6-7) So Christ is no longer needed for Samuelitas. They got to Samuel who also can forgive their sins!!!!!! Samuel is the NEW vineyard keeper, Christ is no more required!!!! Samuel beg to the Lord no cut down the fig tree!. Therefore Samuel is a kind of new Christ! HORRIBLE BLASFEMY! and very DANGEORUS for the people of that organization. Can it happen a colective suicide because Samuel wish? Yes, I think that it CAN happen.
I hope that people allow to the LORD open their eyes at time…
January 17th, 2010 at 9:11 pm
To “agnostic”:
I think that your unconscious mind just betrayed you.
You said:
“You guys do not believe in God, you believe on your own “god” that you yourself have created (Samuel Joaquin Flores), a convenient god (with unlimited drive for SEX, MONEY AND POWER), because you do not submit to anybody else (Not even the Bible), but your own limited twisted understanding of whom God is (LLDM “doctrines”). You write just for writing with no purpose at all, no objectivity in your thinking, you are bunch loners that do not fit anywhere, but in your own artificial created world (La Luz del Mundo).”
This definition describes in a very accurate way La Luz del Mundo!
When you point at us with a finger, your other three fingers are pointing back to you!
La Luz del Mundo is nothing more than a CULT, a SECT and a very dangerous organization.
P.S. words in parenthesis are mine.
January 17th, 2010 at 6:18 pm
Dear beloved in Christ Jesus,
Just a line of thought that I would like to put out.
After reading “really doesn’t matters” wonderful listing of Scpiriture verses, I began to see a pattern with him as well as with all of my study notes from LLDM services for the past 6 years.
The pattern that I see is that LLDM has never, or very rarely, cited any of apostle Peter’s letters.
The question that I would like to pose is why LLDM never cited from apostle Peter?
And for that matter very little from John and James as well.
January 16th, 2010 at 7:44 pm
I am a member of La Luz Del Mundo…
You should not critize other people beliefs in there religion. If you dont think like back in the old times when GOD called upon men as his chosen ones you do not have faith in the almighty. we can talk online or even on emails whatever you want for i can chat with you about my church. just like you want others to listen to you take some time and we can talk. to whomever…may god bless you
January 16th, 2010 at 1:12 pm
May the peace of Our Lord Jesus, by way of the Holy Spirit, God’s blessings to all of you.
To “Really doesn’t matter”(Micael),
My final comments to you will be this:
Yes Samuel wants to evangelize the world, but what is he evangelizing? the gospel he is spreading is of himself – faith in a man, and faith in the Bible PLUS “la historia”, and not the true Gospel of Jesus Christ.
You are in denial if you claim that LLDM does not boast of Samuel as being equal to the Biblical apostles. LLDM goes even further than that though, making Samuel equal to Christ Himself and to God the Father.
I was never trying to teach you anything. What I was doing was presenting more complete passages of Scripture, and showing the true context of the verses you quote rather than the human LLDM interpretation. This is in order to encourage any LLDM members who may stumble in here to study the complete Bible themselves, trusting the Holy Spirit to be their teacher. And remember that study of Scripture requires prayer before you begin, while you study, and afterward as you meditate on the Word.
I would like to now continue with my notes on Revelation. As I have said before, this is only how the Lord revealed it to me as I prayerfully study. I am certainly open to feedback.
Continuing with Chapter 1, we saw in verses 1 – 3, how this is a Revelation, the Revelation of Jesus Christ – which means one day He will return, we saw in verse 3 that this is a book of prophecy, and we know that all of God’s prophecies are fulfilled so we know that one day He is going to be revealed. And we saw in verses 1 and 2 that this record of His Revelation was given to Jesus by God the Father, who gave it to His angel, who communicated it to John, and John communicated it to the world. In verse 3 we also see that those who read, hear, and keep the words of this prophecy will be blessed. Now, beginning in verse 4:
“John,
To the seven churches in the province of Asia:
Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the sevenfold spirit before his throne, and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.
To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood -”(Revelation 1:4,5)
“7 churches in the province of Asia” – This would be Asia Minor (Modern Turkey), which was comprised of 7 postal districts – the center of each being 7 key cities which served as central points for dissemination of information. It is to the churches in those cities who John writes. In verses 4 and 5, we have a greeting from John the Apostle and from Jesus Christ! Completeness is different from perfection. There were hundreds of churches in Asia (ex. Thessalonica, Galatia), but these 7 were chosen for a very definite purpose, and they are representative of the total church throughout all the ages of the churches on earth. “Grace and peace” – The book of Revelation does reveal the grace of God, and peace, and there’s no need to be frightened to study the book – you can have the peace of God in your heart. And it comes to you from Him “who was and who is and who is to come.” – God’s eternal presence is not limited by time. He has always been present, and He will come in the future. “the sevenfold spirit” is also translated “the seven spirits”. There are connections to both translations in earlier Scriptures, both descriptions of the Holy Spirit:
1) Isaiah prophesied of the sevenfold ministry of the Holy Spirit – “The Spirit of the LORD will rest on him—
the Spirit of wisdom and of understanding,
the Spirit of counsel and of power,
the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD -”(Isaiah 11:2)
2) Zechariah described the Holy Spirit as a lampstand with 7 lamps (menorah).
“Then the angel who talked with me returned and wakened me, as a man is wakened from his sleep. He asked me, “What do you see?”
I answered, “I see a solid gold lampstand with a bowl at the top and seven lights on it, with seven channels to the lights. Also there are two olive trees by it, one on the right of the bowl and the other on its left.”
I asked the angel who talked with me, “What are these, my lord?”
He answered, “Do you not know what these are?”
“No, my lord,” I replied.
So he said to me, “This is the word of the LORD to Zerubbabel: ‘Not by might nor by power, but by my Spirit,’ says the LORD Almighty.
“What are you, O mighty mountain? Before Zerubbabel you will become level ground. Then he will bring out the capstone to shouts of ‘God bless it! God bless it!’ ”
Then the word of the LORD came to me: “The hands of Zerubbabel have laid the foundation of this temple; his hands will also complete it. Then you will know that the LORD Almighty has sent me to you.
“Who despises the day of small things? Men will rejoice when they see the plumb line in the hand of Zerubbabel.
“(These seven are the eyes of the LORD, which range throughout the earth.)”(Zechariah 4:1-10)
7 is the number of completeness. As I said, completeness is different from perfection. John is identifying the completeness of the Holy Spirit. Jesus Christ is the subject of Revelation – the same yesterday, today, and forever. In the division of the book, we see what He has done, is doing and what He will do. The first chapter emphasizes the Person of Jesus Christ, we will see Him in His glory. In Revelation 1:4-8, we have greetings from John, the writer, and from the Lord Jesus Christ in Heaven. Notice that John puts no title by his name, and he gives nothing to identify himself other than the name John. John had been a pastor to the church in Ephesus and was well known to all the 7 churches. #7 has a very significant meaning in God’s Word, it was a sacred number. Once again it does not mean perfection it means completeness. #7 was especially significant to the Hebrew people (7th Day, Sabbath, Circumcision). Worship all hinged around the 7th day. It has to do with God’s covenant with His people Israel. As you go through the Word, you see that Jericho was compassed around 7 times. Nayaman dipped 7 times in the Jordan, he was instructed to. There were 7 years of famine in Joseph’s time in Egypt. God caused Nebuchadnezzar to go insane for 7 years and he finally acknowledged Him, there were 7 beatitudes in the New Testament, 7 petitions in the Lord’s prayer, 7 Parables in Matthew 13, 7 loaves which fed multitudes, Jesus spoke 7 times from on the cross.
The #7 cannot be ignored as insignificant, but in the book of Revelation, the #7 stands out even more. John writes to 7 specific churches in Asia. There were other churches, hundreds of them, but He took 7. The #7 means completeness, and when He describes the 7, He is foretelling the complete history of the church. They are representative churches of all the churches throughout all ages of church history. In the text, John does something interesting, the greeting of “grace and peace” combines the Greek “caris” (grace), and the Hebrew “Shalom” – He combines both Gentile and Hebrew greetings. It’s extended to both. Peace flows from grace and grace is the form of all blessings today. From Him and the 7 Spirits – The Trinity is brought before us in these 2 verses. 7 Spirits = Holy Spirit (also the 7 branches of the lampstand, which we will see in the book). Him who is and who was and who is to come = God the Father, Jesus Christ = God the Son. The Trinity is mentioned here. And we see Jesus Christ, and already the #7 stands out – Christ is given 7 titles. 1 – The Faithful witness. The only trustworthy witness to the facts of this book, the only trustworthy witness for us today. It’s hard to believe other people, but we can believe Christ. There’s facts about Him here, and He testifies here of Himself. Then next title 2 – The firstborn from the dead. The word “Firstborn” (Greek ‘prototokus’) – this is regarding His Resurrection. He is the firstborn from the dead. Jesus was the first to rise from the dead – never to die again. Death was a womb which bore Him, i.e. the tomb = the womb as far as He was concerned. He is the only One who has come back from the dead with a glorified body. No one else has come that route yet. He is the preeminent One, the only One who is the rightful heir. His own will follow Him in Resurrection. The rapture will be next, then the Revelation when He comes to the earth. That will be mentioned here. Then, title #3 – Ruler of the kings of the earth. This speaks of His ultimate position during the Millenium, when every knee is going to bow and every tongue is going to confess that He is the Lord. #4 – Him who loves – in the present tense, regards to His constant attitude towards His own. This book should not frighten us too much, it’s from the One who loves us. He didn’t just love us when He died on a cross, but He loves us today. Right this moment – Jesus loves you. #5 – He released us from our sins by His own blood. He has given it for us upon the altar. When Christ shed His blood, (and I think that every drop came out of His body, He gave that for you and me. What did He give? His LIFE. Very Frankly, I will not belittle the blood of Christ. Peter wrote:
“For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your forefathers, but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect.”(1 Peter 1:18-19).
And because of that, Paul could write to the young preacher Timothy:
“For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all men—the testimony given in its proper time.”(1 Timothy 2:5-6), because He freed us from our sins with His own blood.
Then, moving in to verse 6:
“and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.”(Revelation 1:6).
We have the 6th Title – He has made us a kingdom of priests unto His God and Father. All who believe live in the sphere of God’s rule, a kingdom entered in to by faith in Jesus Christ. And, as priests, believers have the privledge to enter God’s presence. Believers are never called kings. He’s coming as Savior, He’s coming to save us – the bridegroom for His bride, for the church that He loves. He is the One who loves my soul. Believers are not called kings. Jesus is our Lord, but first of all, He is our Savior. We are a kingdom of priests, and will reign with Him. He says priests unto His Father – He says His Father because in this sense He is not our Father (His position in the Trinity). We become Sons of God through regeneration by the Word (being born from above), but here it’s His relationship within the Trinity. We become adopted as sons by accepting Jesus as Savior. And we have title #7 – To Him the glory and dominion forever and ever. (This is emphasizing eternity), Amen. Jesus Christ is both the subject and the object of this book (He is the Amen). He’s the mover of all things, and all things move toward Him. Not only were all things created by Him, but they were created for Him.
Then, in verse 7:
“Look, he is coming with the clouds,
and every eye will see him,
even those who pierced him;
and all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of him. So shall it be! Amen.”(Revelation 1:7).
A very significant verse of Scripture. First of all, this echoes the promise made through the prophet Daniel:
“”In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence.”(Daniel 7:13).
These are not ordinary clouds, but clouds of glory. In the Old Testament, God often manifested Himself in an energized, blazing light called “shekinah” or glory cloud. No one could see it fully and live:
“But,” he said, “you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live.”"(Exodus 33:20),
so it had to be veiled. But when Christ returns, the glory will be completely visible:
“Immediately after the distress of those days
” ‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’
“At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory.”(Matthew 24:29-30)
“”When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory.”(Matthew 25:31)
When Revelation 1:7 says “those who pierced Him”, it is not a reference to the 4 Roman soldiers usually involved with crucifixion, but to the Jews who were actually responsible for Christ’s death:
“”Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know. 23This man was handed over to you by God’s set purpose and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of those not having the law (that is, Gentiles) put him to death by nailing him to the cross.”(Acts 2:22-23)
“You disowned the Holy and Righteous One and asked that a murderer be released to you. You killed the author of life, but God raised him from the dead. We are witnesses of this.”(Acts 3:14-15)
Now, the ones who actually pierced Him are dead, but it means the Nation Israel. Zechariah identified the ones who pierced Him as “the house of David” and “the inhabitants of Jerusalem”, and prophesied that they will weep tears of genuine repentance because of what they did to their Messiah:
“”And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look to me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son.”(Zechariah 12:10)
And 1:7 says “all the tribes of the earth will mourn” – This means all the nations other than Israel (Gentiles). Will they be delighted to see Him? No, they will mourn because of Him. The mourning of the earth’s inhabitants is not that which accompanies genuine repentance (Revelation 9:21), it is the result of guilt for sin and fear of punishment (Revelation 6:16; Genesis 3:8-10). Even so, Amen. “He is coming in the clouds” – speaks of the personal and physical coming appearance of Christ.
“every eye shall see Him” – physical & bodily appearance, so every one will gaze upon Him. When He takes His church out of the earth (rapture), He doesn’t come to the earth, we are to be caught up in the air (there’s no point in us being caught up in the air if that’s when He is coming to the earth). This verse describes when He will be revealed, coming to establish His kingdom on earth. “All will mourn because of Him” – This will be the action of all Christ rejecters, the world will not want to see Him. The word “Amen” means “faithful” – which means we can be sure He is coming. He will not change His mind, He’s faithful.
Then in verse 8:
“”I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.”(Revelation 1:8)
“the Alpha and the Omega” – these are the 1st and last letters of the Greek Alphabet. An alphabet is an ingenious way to store and communicate knowledge. Christ is the supreme, sovereign Alphabet; there is nothing outside His knowledge, so there are no unknown factors that could sabatoge His 2nd coming:
“in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.”(Colossians 2:3).
He’s called the Word of God. The full revelation and intelligent communication of God. The only way you can reach God is through Jesus Christ. The only language God speaks is the one where Jesus is the Alpha and the Omega, the 1st and last, A to Z and everything in between. You want to get through to God? You will have to come through Jesus Christ. The emphasis is on the beginning and the end. The Omega has not been filled up yet. The Alpha (beginning) – we know that’s been filled up, but the Omega (ending), has not been filled up yet. The word actually is not even completely filled out in the Greek manuscript – it reads “Ome”, which is quite remarkable. The ending is not yet complete – Jesus Christ is going to complete God’s program. The beginning and the end refers to the eternity of the Son and His immutability – Jesus Christ the same yesterday, today, and forever! He’s not doing the same thing (He’s no longer walking through Galilee or preaching from a fishing boat), but He has the same attributes. He is not changed, He is immutable. Since He is the beginning and the ending, He encompasses all time and eternity. “Says the Lord God” – Scripture here gives us an affirmation of the Deity of Jesus Christ. “who is” – the present time – the glorified Christ as High Priest:
“Therefore, holy brothers, who share in the heavenly calling, fix your thoughts on Jesus, the apostle and high priest whom we confess.”(Hebrews 3:1)
“who was” – speaks of the past tense, referring to His first coming as Savior (Matthew, Mark, Luke John).
“who is to come” – future tense, refers to the 2nd coming of Christ as the Sovereign to this earth.
“The Almighty” – the phrase “Almighty God” and “The Almighty” occurs 8 times in the book of Revelation, underscoring that God’s power is supreme over the cataclysmic events it records (Revelation 4:8, 11:17, 15:3, 16:7,14, 19:15, 21:22). He exercised sovereign control over every person, object and event, and not even 1 molecule in the universe is outside that dominion.
This verse concludes the greeting from John and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
I will go over chapter 1:9-20 next time.
Until then, may God richly bless all of you, my beloved.
January 16th, 2010 at 11:30 am
And the “original” Frank returns!
It is not unsettling at all to have you return, I knew right away it couldn’t be none other than you…
I must admit, you did a good job copy/pasting articles on the etymology of the words ‘atheist’ and ‘agnostic’ and explaining the different stages. Your grammar was too impeccable, however, to believe it all came from you. Moreover, this is a casual blog, but you like to submit comments as if you are turning in an essay to an English Composition professor. I cannot say that I am displeased with your comments (at least the intelligible ones), I welcome them. However, don’t be so naive as to believe you know more than our collective intelligence, “Frank”. It is impressive how you research into things, like Juan Diego and your multiple Agnostic/Atheist comments. I must raise my hat as you have much time to research things you know nothing about. Let’s see this comment:
["I feel that you guys are a bunch God’s non believers, just like all of the rest of atheist and agnostic people, you only believe in what you as humans have been able to understand through your own readings of what God might be. It is ridiculous from you so called “Christians” to be in agreement with someone who does not believe that God exists and that He created the universe, you should be embarrassed of yourselves. This is so sad from you guys who profess to believe in God, and to be fooled by someone who does not even believe in anything other than physical matter. You guys do not believe in God, you believe on your own “god” that you yourself have created, a convenient god, because you do not submit to anybody else, but your own limited twisted understanding of whom God is. You write just for writing with no purpose at all, no objectivity in your thinking, you are bunch loners that do not fit anywhere, but in your own artificial created world."]
Right away, you start with “I feel…”, hence, the rest of your comment is just an opinion, formulated by your neurons, action potentials firing to produce what your mind fancies. An opinion is WEAK, “Agnostic”. Your claim that we are a bunch of non-believers just like the rest of the atheists and agnostics is ridiculous and unfounded. If you go back and read the copy/paste comments you posted, you will see that you still have agnostics wrong. You want us to read your posts but you, yourself, seem not to read them. Moving on, you write: “It is ridiculous from you so called “Christians” to be in agreement with someone who does not believe that God exists and that He created the universe, you should be embarrassed of yourselves.”
I truly hope you brought insurance to back up your claim on this one. Name one comment in this whole blog in which I have said that I do not believe God exists. I dare you. I like how you use quotations on the word-Christian. Are you in any way, implying that my friends here are not Christian? Are the only “true” Christians the ones that believe in apostle Samuel? Please, enlighten us as to what you believe a Christian is. Furthermore, I have no idea how it is that I have fooled, as you most eloquently put, the people here that ‘profess’ to believe in God. I fool nobody, but LLDM has 5 million truly ‘fooled’. If you are one of the 5 million then you are a fool by choice, in one of the greatest pranks to come out from Mexico. Lastly, you finish your OPINION (let us not forget that it is merely your opinion) with: “You guys do not believe in God, you believe on your own “god” that you yourself have created, a convenient god, because you do not submit to anybody else, but your own limited twisted understanding of whom God is. You write just for writing with no purpose at all, no objectivity in your thinking, you are bunch loners that do not fit anywhere, but in your own artificial created world.” Again, do you mean we do not believe in God for exposing the truth about Samuel, an usurper of apostles? Oh, Agnostic, Frank, whoever you may be… our twisted understanding? How can our understanding be twisted if the Holy Spirit is with us, us who are not baptized under the authority of apostle Samuel? Even Catholics you have grown to hate put God and Jesus over the Pope! Does LLDM truly put God and Jesus first or does Samuel take center-stage? The artificial world is the one fabricated by Aaron and Samuel. Aaron NEVER claimed to be an apostle, LLDM was an honorable church in the past, in the times of my father’s stepfather. It has been twisted by the avarice of your Samuel and his sons. You, yourself, have agreed that a church is a perfect business model. Look at the mansions, the properties in Mexico and abroad, look at how they brainwash the poor widows like Conchita, to give their houses over to the church! All those are facts, not opinions… like the ones you air. You are the one not living reality. Your agreement with Micael’s nonsensical and contradicting comments summarizes your unique “objective” view! You should read more philosophy and the Bible without bias, “Agnostic”. Go read Hobbes, Thomas More, Marcus Aurelius, Aristotle, Confucius, Machiavelli, Sun Tzu, and the rest to ‘help’ you attain a real objective view. Oh, but that is right… you are a Samuelita, right? No puedes ver mas alla! Que lastima…
I will pray for you… you even sign your comments with the name “Agnostic”. What a shame, you should change it to “Samuelista”.
Oscar
January 16th, 2010 at 12:51 am
May the peace of Our Lord Jesus, by way of the Holy Spirit, God’s blessings to all of you.
To “Really doesn’t matter”(Micael),
My final comments to you will be this:
I was never trying to teach you anything. What I was doing was presenting more complete passages of Scripture, and showing the true context of the verses you quote rather than the human LLDM interpretation. This is in order to encourage any LLDM members who may stumble in here to study the complete Bible themselves, trusting the Holy Spirit to be their teacher. And remember that study of Scripture requires prayer before you begin, while you study, and afterward as you meditate on the Word.
I would like to now continue with my notes on Revelation. As I have said before, this is only how the Lord revealed it to me as I prayerfully study. I am certainly open to feedback.
January 16th, 2010 at 12:42 am
To all interested parties!
I feel that you guys are a bunch God’s non believers, just like all of the rest of atheist and agnostic people, you only believe in what you as humans have been able to understand through your own readings of what God might be. It is ridiculous from you so called “Christians” to be in agreement with someone who does not believe that God exists and that He created the universe, you should be embarrassed of yourselves. This is so sad from you guys who profess to believe in God, and to be fooled by someone who does not even believe in anything other than physical matter. You guys do not believe in God, you believe on your own “god” that you yourself have created, a convenient god, because you do not submit to anybody else, but your own limited twisted understanding of whom God is.
You write just for writing with no purpose at all, no objectivity in your thinking, you are bunch loners that do not fit anywhere, but in your own artificial created world.
You do not believe on any religion because there is no place for you on any religion, you do not fit anywhere, you are blinded by your own thinking far from the truth, and the saddest part is that you are here judging others when you yourselves are totally isolated from God, and falsely claiming to be guided by your so called “holy spirit”.
At least Oscar is waiting for someone “ultra terrestrial” to come to tell him if Juan Diego will show up tomorrow or in the next 24 hours; and if this turns out to be true, he “might” believe that God really exists. I must say that I admired our young 17 year old whom have presented a fierce, but humble argument of the real truth. Enjoy…
Just a thought for wanna be philosophers!
January 15th, 2010 at 8:27 pm
“I can’t express in words, what you just said. I don’t know if it is COMPLETELY PATHETIC OR YOU HAVE OFFICIALY MADE ME CRAZY! What exactly do you think you are doing? Listen to yourself! And trust me, the Church doesn’t make us feel any sensation that is pleasant. The apostle doesn’t say anything that makes us feel good. Everything affects our flesh! He challenges our flesh all the time! Therefore, you can’t say that he gives us good feelings about ourselves. You are just being stupid now.” – Micael
Oh yes, what a terrible feeling you must get from thinking that only your church will receive Salvation. And what a terrible feeling Samuel himself must get from millions of people singing songs about him and praising him as a mediator between man and God. Who are you kidding?
A 17 year old called me stupid? hahahaha, Ouch! lol!
“I am speechless by your comments & questions, because they are completely made without knowing. THE APOSTLE HIMSELF SAYS ALL THE TIME< HE WANTS TO BE ABLE TO EVANGELIZED THE WHOLE WORLD! HE WANTS EVERYONE TO TAKE THE ADVANTAGE OF THE PRIVILEGE GOD HAS GIVEN HIM! I WILL NOT RESPOND TO STUPID THINGS."
I think any intelligent person would see that that means you simply don't want to answer, because you know deep down that it's true – it is more important for LLDM to talk about Samuel than to talk about Christ.
"But he hasn’t any revelation to the bible. It happened as it happened."
Micael, he may not have added anything by writing it directly in the Bible, but how do you explain preaching another book, ("la historia" – which you yourself admitted to) in ADDITION to the Bible?
Like it or not, that is adding.
There is no point in speaking to you anymore, because you don't listen to reason, logic, history, or Biblical logic. There's a long list of questions that have been posed to you that you simply don't have an answer for. You're just going to believe what you want to believe (regardless of how full of holes and contradictions it is), and look at bits and pieces of the Bible the way your pastor tells you to, instead of delving into the Scriptures yourself and trusting the Holy Spirit to teach you.
I will keep you in my prayers, and hopefully some day you will mature and be brave enough to compare what LLDM teaches to the totality of what Scripture actually says.
For everyone else, I will continue with more notes on Revelation later this evening.
God's blessings to all of you.
January 15th, 2010 at 4:32 pm
What is Agnosticism?
ag·nos·ti·cism (ăg-nŏs’tĭ-sĭz’em) n.
The doctrine that certainty about first principles or absolute truth is unattainable and that only perceptual phenomena are objects of exact knowledge.
The belief that there can be no proof either that God exists or that God does not exist.
Agnosticism (from the Greek a, meaning “without” and gnosis, “knowledge”, translating to unknowable) is the philosophical view that the truth value of certain claims—particularly theological claims regarding metaphysics, afterlife or the existence of God, god(s), or deities—is unknown or (possibly) inherently unknowable.
Agnostics claim either that it is not possible to have absolute or certain knowledge or, alternatively, that while certainty may be possible, they personally have no knowledge. Agnosticism in both cases involves some form of skepticism.
from Wikipedia
When I reached intellectual maturity and began to ask myself whether I was an atheist, a theist, or a pantheist; a materialist or an idealist; Christian or a freethinker; I found that the more I learned and reflected, the less ready was the answer; until, at last, I came to the conclusion that I had neither art nor part with any of these denominations, except the last. The one thing in which most of these good people were agreed was the one thing in which I differed from them. They were quite sure they had attained a certain “gnosis,”–had, more or less successfully, solved the problem of existence; while I was quite sure I had not, and had a pretty strong conviction that the problem was insoluble.
So I took thought, and invented what I conceived to be the appropriate title of “agnostic.” It came into my head as suggestively antithetic to the “gnostic” of Church history, who professed to know so much about the very things of which I was ignorant. To my great satisfaction the term took.
Thomas Henry Huxley (creating the word Agnostic)
1. Agnosticism is of the essence of science, whether ancient or modern. It simply means that a man shall not say he knows or believes that which he has no scientific grounds for professing to know or believe.
2. Consequently Agnosticism puts aside not only the greater part of popular theology, but also the greater part of anti-theology. On the whole, the “bosh” of heterodoxy is more offensive to me than that of orthodoxy, because heterodoxy professes to be guided by reason and science, and orthodoxy does not.
3. I have no doubt that scientific criticism will prove destructive to the forms of supernaturalism which enter into the constitution of existing religions. On trial of any so-called miracle the verdict of science is “Not proven.” But true Agnosticism will not forget that existence, motion, and law-abiding operation in nature are more stupendous miracles than any recounted by the mythologies, and that there may be things, not only in the heavens and earth, but beyond the intelligible universe, which “are not dreamt of in our philosophy.” The theological “gnosis” would have us believe that the world is a conjuror’s house; the anti-theological “gnosis” talks as if it were a “dirt-pie” made by the two blind children, Law and Force. Agnosticism simply says that we know nothing of what may be beyond phenomena.
Thomas Henry Huxley (clarifying the word Agnostic)
Are Agnostics the same as Atheists?
No. An atheist, like a Christian, holds that we can know whether or not there is a God. The Christian holds that we can know there is a God; the atheist, that we can know there is not. The Agnostic suspends judgment, saying that there are not sufficient grounds either for affirmation or for denial. At the same time, an Agnostic may hold that the existence of God, though not impossible, is very improbable; he may even hold it so improbable that it is not worth considering in practice. In that case, he is not far removed from atheism. His attitude may be that which a careful philosopher would have towards the gods of ancient Greece. If I were asked to prove that Zeus and Poseidon and Hera and the rest of the Olympians do not exist, I should be at a loss to find conclusive arguments. An Agnostic may think the Christian God as improbable as the Olympians; in that case, he is, for practical purposes, at one with the atheists.
Bertrand Russell
Everyone is atheistic about some gods since various gods are defined by humanity. We’re all probably atheistic about Zeus for example. Atheism as a belief means that you’re atheistic about ALL gods and creator concepts, otherwise it’s best to define yourself as a believer of whichever god it is you are not atheistic about. Agnosticism came about for those that are atheistic towards all gods defined by humanity but cannot say for certain they are atheistic about an unknown creator concept.
Theist: intelligent creation – belief in a supernatural creator of my definition from exact to vague
Atheist: natural creation – no belief in a supernatural creator
Agnostic: unknown creation – humanity has no clue about the supernatural so any human defined creators must be false – we don’t know where the universe came from or why it came to be, so a supernatural cause remains a possibility even if we may never understand it
What is Agnosticism philosophically based upon?
Philosophically, agnosticism can be described as being based upon two separate principles. The first principle is epistemological in that it relies upon empirical and logical means for acquiring knowledge about the world. The second principle is moral in that it insists that we have an ethical duty not to assert claims for ideas which we cannot adequately support either through evidence or logic.
So, if a person cannot claim to know, or at least know for sure, if any gods exist, then they may properly use the term “agnostic” to describe themselves; at the same time, this person likely insists that it would be wrong on some level to claim that gods either definitely do or definitely don’t exist. This is the ethical dimension of agnosticism, arising from the idea that a strong atheism or strong theism is simply not justified by what we currently know.
from About.com
Who or what created the Universe?
This is the real question that religions try to answer because creation means ownership. Identifying ownership identifies control of the Universe. Agnostics are the only people willing to state as fact that they do not know who or what created the Universe. We also have no idea how it was created or even if it truly was created either. The Big Bang theory is just that, a theory. It may give us the first human understandable starting point for the Universe, but it doesn’t explain why it happened or what the root cause was for all of existence to begin.
Since you deny ‘God’s Law’, what authority do you accept as a guide to conduct?
An Agnostic does not accept any ‘authority’ in the sense in which religious people do. He holds that a man should think out questions of conduct for himself. Of course, he will seek to profit by the wisdom of others, but he will have to select for himself the people he is to consider wise, and he will not regard even what they say as unquestionable. He will observe that what passes as ‘God’s law’ varies from time to time. The Bible says both that a woman must not marry her deceased husband’s brother, and that, in certain circumstances, she must do so. If you have the misfortune to be a childless widow with an unmarried brother-in-law, it is logically impossible for you to avoid disobeying ‘God’s law’.
Bertrand Russell
How do you know what is good and what is evil? What does an Agnostic consider a sin?
The Agnostic is not quite so certain as some Christians are as to what is good and what is evil. He does not hold, as most Christians in the past held, that people who disagree with the government on abstruse points of theology ought to suffer a painful death. He is against persecution, and rather chary of moral condemnation.
As for ’sin’, he thinks it not a useful notion. He admits, of course, that some kinds of conduct are desirable and some undesirable, but he holds that the punishment of undesirable kinds is only to be commended when it is deterrent or reformatory, not when it is inflicted because it is thought a good thing on its own account that the wicked should suffer. It was this belief in vindictive punishment that made men accept Hell. This is part of the harm done by the notion of ’sin’.
Bertrand Russell
Does an Agnostic do whatever he pleases?
In one sense, no; in another sense, everyone does whatever he pleases. Suppose, for example, you hate someone so much that you would like to murder him. Why do you not do so? You may reply: “Because religion tells me that murder is a sin.” But as a statistical fact, agnostics are not more prone to murder than other people, in fact, rather less so. They have the same motives for abstaining from murder as other people have. Far and away the most powerful of these motives is the fear of punishment. In lawless conditions, such as a gold rush, all sorts of people will commit crimes, although in ordinary circumstances they would have been law-abiding. There is not only actual legal punishment; there is the discomfort of dreading discovery, and the loneliness of knowing that, to avoid being hated, you must wear a mask with even your closest intimates. And there is also what may be called “conscience”: If you ever contemplated a murder, you would dread the horrible memory of your victim’s last moments or lifeless corpse. All this, it is true, depends upon your living in a law-abiding community, but there are abundant secular reasons for creating and preserving such a community.
I said that there is another sense in which every man does as he pleases. No one but a fool indulges every impulse, but what holds a desire in check is always some other desire. A man’s anti-social wishes may be restrained by a wish to please God, but they may also be restrained by a wish to please his friends, or to win the respect of his community, or to be able to contemplate himself without disgust. But if he has no such wishes, the mere abstract concepts of morality will not keep him straight.
Bertrand Russell
How does an Agnostic regard the Bible?
An agnostic regards the Bible exactly as enlightened clerics regard it. He does not think that it is divinely inspired; he thinks its early history legendary, and no more exactly true than that in Homer; he thinks its moral teaching sometimes good, but sometimes very bad. For example: Samuel ordered Saul, in a war, to kill not only every man, woman, and child of the enemy, but also all the sheep and cattle. Saul, however, let the sheep and the cattle live, and for this we are told to condemn him. I have never been able to admire Elisha for cursing the children who laughed at him, or to believe (what the Bible asserts) that a benevolent Deity would send two she-bears to kill the children.
Bertrand Russell
How does an Agnostic regard Jesus, the Virgin Birth, and the Holy Trinity?
Since an agnostic does not believe in God, he cannot think that Jesus was God. Most agnostics admire the life and moral teachings of Jesus as told in the Gospels, but not necessarily more than those of certain other men. Some would place him on a level with Buddha, some with Socrates and some with Abraham Lincoln. Nor do they think that what He said is not open to question, since they do not accept any authority as absolute.
They regard the Virgin Birth as a doctrine taken over from pagan mythology, where such births were not uncommon. (Zoroaster was said to have been born of a virgin; Ishtar, the Babylonian goddess, is called the Holy Virgin.) They cannot give credence to it, or to the doctrine of the Trinity, since neither is possible without belief in God.
Bertrand Russell
Can an Agnostic be a Christian?
The word “Christian” has had various different meanings at different times. Throughout most of the centuries since the time of Christ, it has meant a person who believed God and immortality and held that Christ was God. But Unitarians call themselves Christians, although they do not believe in the divinity of Christ, and many people nowadays use the word “God” in a much less precise sense than that which it used to bear. Many people who say they believe in God no longer mean a person, or a trinity of persons, but only a vague tendency or power or purpose immanent in evolution. Others, going still further, mean by “Christianity” merely a system of ethics which, since they are ignorant of history, they imagine to be characteristic of Christians only.
When, in a recent book, I said that what the world needs is “love, Christian love, or compassion,” many people thought this showed some changes in my views, although in fact, I might have said the same thing at any time. If you mean by a “Christian” a man who loves his neighbor, who has wide sympathy with suffering, and who ardently desires a world freed from the cruelties and abominations which at present disfigure it, then, certainly, you will be justified in calling me a Christian. And, in this sense, I think you will find more “Christians” among agnostics than among the orthodox. But, for my part, I cannot accept such a definition. Apart from other objections to it, it seems rude to Jews, Buddhists, Mohammedans, and other non-Christians, who, so far as history shows, have been at least as apt as Christians to practice the virtues which some modern Christians arrogantly claim as distinctive of their own religion.
I think also that all who called themselves Christians in an earlier time, and a great majority of those who do so at the present day, would consider that belief in God and immortality is essential to a Christian. On these grounds, I should not call myself a Christian, and I should say that an agnostic cannot be a Christian. But, if the word “Christianity” comes to be generally used to mean merely a kind of morality, then it will certainly be possible for an agnostic to be a Christian.
Bertrand Russell
Does an Agnostic deny that man has a soul?
This question has no precise meaning unless we are given a definition of the word “soul.” I suppose what is meant is, roughly, something nonmaterial which persists throughout a person’s life and even, for those who believe in immortality, throughout all future time. If this is what is meant, an agnostic is not likely to believe that man has a soul. But I must hasten to add that this does not mean that an agnostic must be a materialist. Many agnostics (including myself) are quite as doubtful of the body as they are of the soul, but this is a long story taking one into difficult metaphysics. Mind and matter alike, I should say, are only convenient symbols in discourse, not actually existing things.
Bertrand Russell
Does an Agnostic believe in a hereafter, in Heaven or Hell?
The question whether people survive death is one as to which evidence is possible. Psychical research and spiritualism are thought by many to supply such evidence. An agnostic, as such, does not take a view about survival unless he thinks that there is evidence one way or the other. For my part, I do not think there is any good reason to believe that we survive death, but I am open to conviction if adequate evidence should appear.
Heaven and hell are a different matter. Belief in hell is bound up with the belief that the vindictive punishment of sin is a good thing, quite independently of any reformative or deterrent effect that it may have. Hardly an agnostic believes this. As for heaven, there might conceivably someday be evidence of its existence through spiritualism, but most agnostics do not think that there is such evidence, and therefore do not believe in heaven.
Bertrand Russell
Are you never afraid of God’s judgment in denying Him?
Most certainly not. I also deny Zeus and Jupiter and Odin and Brahma, but this causes me no qualms. I observe that a very large portion of the human race does not believe in God and suffers no visible punishment in consequence. And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence.
Bertrand Russell
How do Agnostics explain the beauty and harmony of nature?
I do not understand where this “beauty” and “harmony” are supposed to be found. Throughout the animal kingdom, animals ruthlessly prey upon each other. Most of them are either cruelly killed by other animals or slowly die of hunger. For my part, I am unable to see any great beauty or harmony in the tapeworm. Let it not be said that this creature is sent as a punishment for our sins, for it is more prevalent among animals than among humans. I suppose the questioner is thinking of such things as the beauty of the starry heavens. But one should remember that stars every now and again explode and reduce everything in their neighborhood to a vague mist. Beauty, in any case, is subjective and exists only in the eye of the beholder.
Bertrand Russell
How do Agnostics explain miracles and other revelations of God’s omnipotence?
Agnostics do not think that there is any evidence of “miracles” in the sense of happenings contrary to natural law. We know that faith healing occurs and is in no sense miraculous. At Lourdes, certain diseases can be cured and others cannot. Those that can be cured at Lourdes can probably be cured by any doctor in whom the patient has faith. As for the records of other miracles, such as Joshua commanding the sun to stand still, the agnostic dismisses them as legends and points to the fact that all religions are plentifully supplied with such legends. There is just as much miraculous evidence for the Greek gods in Homer as for the Christian God in the Bible.
Bertrand Russell
There have been base and cruel passions, which religion opposes. If you abandon religious principles, could mankind exist?
The existence of base and cruel passions is undeniable, but I find no evidence in history that religion has opposed these passions. On the contrary, it has sanctified them, and enabled people to indulge them without remorse. Cruel persecutions have been commoner in Christendom than anywhere else. What appears to justify persecution is dogmatic belief. Kindliness and tolerance only prevail in proportion as dogmatic belief decays. In our day, a new dogmatic religion, namely, communism, has arisen. To this, as to other systems of dogma, the agnostic is opposed. The persecuting character of present day communism is exactly like the persecuting character of Christianity in earlier centuries. In so far as Christianity has become less persecuting, this is mainly due to the work of freethinkers who have made dogmatists rather less dogmatic. If they were as dogmatic now as in former times, they would still think it right to burn heretics at the stake. The spirit of tolerance which some modern Christians regard as essentially Christian is, in fact, a product of the temper which allows doubt and is suspicious of absolute certainties. I think that anybody who surveys past history in an impartial manner will be driven to the conclusion that religion has caused more suffering than it has prevented.
Bertrand Russell
What is the meaning of life to the Agnostic?
I feel inclined to answer by another question: What is the meaning of `the meaning of life’? I suppose what is intended is some general purpose. I do not think that life in general has any purpose. It just happened. But individual human beings have purposes, and there is nothing in agnosticism to cause them to abandon these purposes. They cannot, of course, be certain of achieving the results at which they aim; but you would think ill of a soldier who refused to fight unless victory was certain. The person who needs religion to bolster up his own purposes is a timorous person, and I cannot think as well of him as of the man who takes his chances, while admitting that defeat is not impossible.
Bertrand Russell
Does not the denial of religion mean the denial of marriage and chastity?
Here again, one must reply by another question: Does the man who asks this question believe that marriage and chastity contribute to earthly happiness here below, or does he think that, while they cause misery here below, they are to be advocated as means of getting to heaven? The man who takes the latter view will no doubt expect agnosticism to lead to a decay of what he calls virtue, but he will have to admit that what he calls virtue is not what ministers to the happiness of the human race while on earth. If, on the other hand, he takes the former view, namely, that there are terrestrial arguments in favor of marriage and chastity, he must also hold that these arguments are such as should appeal to the agnostic. Agnostics, as such, have no distinctive views about sexual morality. But most of them would admit that there are valid arguments against the unbridled indulgence of sexual desires. They would derive these arguments, however, from terrestrial sources and not from supposed divine commands.
Bertrand Russell
Is not faith in reason alone a dangerous creed? Is not reason imperfect and inadequate without spiritual and moral law?
No sensible man, however agnostic, has “faith in reason alone.” Reason is concerned with matters of fact, some observed, some inferred. The question whether there is a future life and the question whether there is a God concern matters of fact, and the agnostic will hold that they should be investigated in the same way as the question, “Will there be an eclipse of the moon tomorrow?” But matters of fact alone are not sufficient to determine action, since they do not tell us what ends we ought to pursue. In the realm of ends, we need something other than reason. The agnostic will find his ends in his own heart and not in an external command. Let us take an illustration: Suppose you wish to travel by train from New York to Chicago; you will use reason to discover when the trains run, and a person who though that there was some faculty of insight or intuition enabling him to dispense with the timetable would be thought rather silly. But no timetable will tell him that it is wise, he will have to take account of further matters of fact; but behind all the matters of fact, there will be the ends that he thinks fitting to pursue, and these, for an agnostic as for other men, belong to a realm which is not that of reason, though it should be in no degree contrary to it. The realm I mean is that of emotion and feeling and desire.
Bertrand Russell
Do Agnostics think that science and religion are impossible to reconcile?
The answer turns upon what is meant by ‘religion’. If it means merely a system of ethics, it can be reconciled with science. If it means a system of dogma, regarded as unquestionably true, it is incompatible with the scientific spirit, which refuses to accept matters of fact without evidence, and also holds that complete certainty is hardly ever impossible.
Bertrand Russell
What kind of evidence could convince you that God exists?
AI think that if I heard a voice from the sky predicting all that was going to happen to me during the next twenty-four hours, including events that would have seemed highly improbable, and if all these events then produced to happen, I might perhaps be convinced at least of the existence of some superhuman intelligence. I can imagine other evidence of the same sort which might convince me, but so far as I know, no such evidence exists.
Bertrand Russell
Agnostic
January 15th, 2010 at 4:22 pm
What is an Agnostic?
by Bertrand Russell
——————————————————————————–
What Is an agnostic?
An agnostic thinks it impossible to know the truth in matters such as God and the future life with which Christianity and other religions are concerned. Or, if not impossible, at least impossible at the present time.
Are agnostics atheists?
No. An atheist, like a Christian, holds that we can know whether or not there is a God. The Christian holds that we can know there is a God; the atheist, that we can know there is not. The Agnostic suspends judgment, saying that there are not sufficient grounds either for affirmation or for denial. At the same time, an Agnostic may hold that the existence of God, though not impossible, is very improbable; he may even hold it so improbable that it is not worth considering in practice. In that case, he is not far removed from atheism. His attitude may be that which a careful philosopher would have towards the gods of ancient Greece. If I were asked to prove that Zeus and Poseidon and Hera and the rest of the Olympians do not exist, I should be at a loss to find conclusive arguments. An Agnostic may think the Christian God as improbable as the Olympians; in that case, he is, for practical purposes, at one with the atheists.
Since you deny `God’s Law’, what authority do you accept as a guide to conduct?
An Agnostic does not accept any `authority’ in the sense in which religious people do. He holds that a man should think out questions of conduct for himself. Of course, he will seek to profit by the wisdom of others, but he will have to select for himself the people he is to consider wise, and he will not regard even what they say as unquestionable. He will observe that what passes as `God’s law’ varies from time to time. The Bible says both that a woman must not marry her deceased husband’s brother, and that, in certain circumstances, she must do so. If you have the misfortune to be a childless widow with an unmarried brother-in-law, it is logically impossible for you to avoid disobeying `God’s law’.
How do you know what is good and what is evil? What does an agnostic consider a sin?
The Agnostic is not quite so certain as some Christians are as to what is good and what is evil. He does not hold, as most Christians in the past held, that people who disagree with the government on abstruse points of theology ought to suffer a painful death. He is against persecution, and rather chary of moral condemnation.
As for `sin’, he thinks it not a useful notion. He admits, of course, that some kinds of conduct are desirable and some undesirable, but he holds that the punishment of undesirable kinds is only to be commended when it is deterrent or reformatory, not when it is inflicted because it is thought a good thing on its own account that the wicked should suffer. It was this belief in vindictive punishment that made men accept Hell. This is part of the harm done by the notion of `sin’.
Does an agnostic do whatever he pleases?
In one sense, no; in another sense, everyone does whatever he pleases. Suppose, for example, you hate someone so much that you would like to murder him. Why do you not do so? You may reply: “Because religion tells me that murder is a sin.” But as a statistical fact, agnostics are not more prone to murder than other people, in fact, rather less so. They have the same motives for abstaining from murder as other people have. Far and away the most powerful of these motives is the fear of punishment. In lawless conditions, such as a gold rush, all sorts of people will commit crimes, although in ordinary circumstances they would have been law-abiding. There is not only actual legal punishment; there is the discomfort of dreading discovery, and the loneliness of knowing that, to avoid being hated, you must wear a mask with even your closest intimates. And there is also what may be called “conscience”: If you ever contemplated a murder, you would dread the horrible memory of your victim’s last moments or lifeless corpse. All this, it is true, depends upon your living in a law-abiding community, but there are abundant secular reasons for creating and preserving such a community.
I said that there is another sense in which every man does as he pleases. No one but a fool indulges every impulse, but what holds a desire in check is always some other desire. A man’s anti-social wishes may be restrained by a wish to please God, but they may also be restrained by a wish to please his friends, or to win the respect of his community, or to be able to contemplate himself without disgust. But if he has no such wishes, the mere abstract concepts of morality will not keep him straight.
How does an agnostic regard the Bible?
An agnostic regards the Bible exactly as enlightened clerics regard it. He does not think that it is divinely inspired; he thinks its early history legendary, and no more exactly true than that in Homer; he thinks its moral teaching sometimes good, but sometimes very bad. For example: Samuel ordered Saul, in a war, to kill not only every man, woman, and child of the enemy, but also all the sheep and cattle. Saul, however, let the sheep and the cattle live, and for this we are told to condemn him. I have never been able to admire Elisha for cursing the children who laughed at him, or to believe (what the Bible asserts) that a benevolent Deity would send two she-bears to kill the children.
How does an agnostic regard Jesus, the Virgin Birth, and the Holy Trinity?
Since an agnostic does not believe in God, he cannot think that Jesus was God. Most agnostics admire the life and moral teachings of Jesus as told in the Gospels, but not necessarily more than those of certain other men. Some would place him on a level with Buddha, some with Socrates and some with Abraham Lincoln. Nor do they think that what He said is not open to question, since they do not accept any authority as absolute.
They regard the Virgin Birth as a doctrine taken over from pagan mythology, where such births were not uncommon. (Zoroaster was said to have been born of a virgin; Ishtar, the Babylonian goddess, is called the Holy Virgin.) They cannot give credence to it, or to the doctrine of the Trinity, since neither is possible without belief in God.
Can an agnostic be a Christian?
The word “Christian” has had various different meanings at different times. Throughout most of the centuries since the time of Christ, it has meant a person who believed God and immortality and held that Christ was God. But Unitarians call themselves Christians, although they do not believe in the divinity of Christ, and many people nowadays use the word “God” in a much less precise sense than that which it used to bear. Many people who say they believe in God no longer mean a person, or a trinity of persons, but only a vague tendency or power or purpose immanent in evolution. Others, going still further, mean by “Christianity” merely a system of ethics which, since they are ignorant of history, they imagine to be characteristic of Christians only.
When, in a recent book, I said that what the world needs is “love, Christian love, or compassion,” many people thought this showed some changes in my views, although in fact, I might have said the same thing at any time. If you mean by a “Christian” a man who loves his neighbor, who has wide sympathy with suffering, and who ardently desires a world freed from the cruelties and abominations which at present disfigure it, then, certainly, you will be justified in calling me a Christian. And, in this sense, I think you will find more “Christians” among agnostics than among the orthodox. But, for my part, I cannot accept such a definition. Apart from other objections to it, it seems rude to Jews, Buddhists, Mohammedans, and other non-Christians, who, so far as history shows, have been at least as apt as Christians to practice the virtues which some modern Christians arrogantly claim as distinctive of their own religion.
I think also that all who called themselves Christians in an earlier time, and a great majority of those who do so at the present day, would consider that belief in God and immortality is essential to a Christian. On these grounds, I should not call myself a Christian, and I should say that an agnostic cannot be a Christian. But, if the word “Christianity” comes to be generally used to mean merely a kind of morality, then it will certainly be possible for an agnostic to be a Christian.
Does an agnostic deny that man has a soul?
This question has no precise meaning unless we are given a definition of the word “soul.” I suppose what is meant is, roughly, something nonmaterial which persists throughout a person’s life and even, for those who believe in immortality, throughout all future time. If this is what is meant, an agnostic is not likely to believe that man has a soul. But I must hasten to add that this does not mean that an agnostic must be a materialist. Many agnostics (including myself) are quite as doubtful of the body as they are of the soul, but this is a long story taking one into difficult metaphysics. Mind and matter alike, I should say, are only convenient symbols in discourse, not actually existing things.
Does an agnostic believe in a hereafter, in Heaven or Hell?
The question whether people survive death is one as to which evidence is possible. Psychical research and spiritualism are thought by many to supply such evidence. An agnostic, as such, does not take a view about survival unless he thinks that there is evidence one way or the other. For my part, I do not think there is any good reason to believe that we survive death, but I am open to conviction if adequate evidence should appear.
Heaven and hell are a different matter. Belief in hell is bound up with the belief that the vindictive punishment of sin is a good thing, quite independently of any reformative or deterrent effect that it may have. Hardly an agnostic believes this. As for heaven, there might conceivably someday be evidence of its existence through spiritualism, but most agnostics do not think that there is such evidence, and therefore do not believe in heaven.
Are you never afraid of God’s judgment in denying Him?
Most certainly not. I also deny Zeus and Jupiter and Odin and Brahma, but this causes me no qualms. I observe that a very large portion of the human race does not believe in God and suffers no visible punishment in consequence. And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence.
How do agnostics explain the beauty and harmony of nature?
I do not understand where this “beauty” and “harmony” are supposed to be found. Throughout the animal kingdom, animals ruthlessly prey upon each other. Most of them are either cruelly killed by other animals or slowly die of hunger. For my part, I am unable to see any great beauty or harmony in the tapeworm. Let it not be said that this creature is sent as a punishment for our sins, for it is more prevalent among animals than among humans. I suppose the questioner is thinking of such things as the beauty of the starry heavens. But one should remember that stars every now and again explode and reduce everything in their neighborhood to a vague mist. Beauty, in any case, is subjective and exists only in the eye of the beholder.
How do agnostics explain miracles and other revelations of God’s omnipotence?
Agnostics do not think that there is any evidence of “miracles” in the sense of happenings contrary to natural law. We know that faith healing occurs and is in no sense miraculous. At Lourdes, certain diseases can be cured and others cannot. Those that can be cured at Lourdes can probably be cured by any doctor in whom the patient has faith. As for the records of other miracles, such as Joshua commanding the sun to stand still, the agnostic dismisses them as legends and points to the fact that all religions are plentifully supplied with such legends. There is just as much miraculous evidence for the Greek gods in Homer as for the Christian God in the Bible.
There have been base and cruel passions, which religion opposes. If you abandon religious principles, could mankind exist?
The existence of base and cruel passions is undeniable, but I find no evidence in history that religion has opposed these passions. On the contrary, it has sanctified them, and enabled people to indulge them without remorse. Cruel persecutions have been commoner in Christendom than anywhere else. What appears to justify persecution is dogmatic belief. Kindliness and tolerance only prevail in proportion as dogmatic belief decays. In our day, a new dogmatic religion, namely, communism, has arisen. To this, as to other systems of dogma, the agnostic is opposed. The persecuting character of present day communism is exactly like the persecuting character of Christianity in earlier centuries. In so far as Christianity has become less persecuting, this is mainly due to the work of freethinkers who have made dogmatists rather less dogmatic. If they were as dogmatic now as in former times, they would still think it right to burn heretics at the stake. The spirit of tolerance which some modern Christians regard as essentially Christian is, in fact, a product of the temper which allows doubt and is suspicious of absolute certainties. I think that anybody who surveys past history in an impartial manner will be driven to the conclusion that religion has caused more suffering than it has prevented.
What is the meaning of life to the agnostic?
I feel inclined to answer by another question: What is the meaning of `the meaning of life’? I suppose what is intended is some general purpose. I do not think that life in general has any purpose. It just happened. But individual human beings have purposes, and there is nothing in agnosticism to cause them to abandon these purposes. They cannot, of course, be certain of achieving the results at which they aim; but you would think ill of a soldier who refused to fight unless victory was certain. The person who needs religion to bolster up his own purposes is a timorous person, and I cannot think as well of him as of the man who takes his chances, while admitting that defeat is not impossible.
Does not the denial of religion mean the denial of marriage and chastity?
Here again, one must reply by another question: Does the man who asks this question believe that marriage and chastity contribute to earthly happiness here below, or does he think that, while they cause misery here below, they are to be advocated as means of getting to heaven? The man who takes the latter view will no doubt expect agnosticism to lead to a decay of what he calls virtue, but he will have to admit that what he calls virtue is not what ministers to the happiness of the human race while on earth. If, on the other hand, he takes the former view, namely, that there are terrestrial arguments in favor of marriage and chastity, he must also hold that these arguments are such as should appeal to the agnostic. Agnostics, as such, have no distinctive views about sexual morality. But most of them would admit that there are valid arguments against the unbridled indulgence of sexual desires. They would derive these arguments, however, from terrestrial sources and not from supposed divine commands.
Is not faith in reason alone a dangerous creed? Is not reason imperfect and inadequate without spiritual and moral law?
No sensible man, however agnostic, has “faith in reason alone.” Reason is concerned with matters of fact, some observed, some inferred. The question whether there is a future life and the question whether there is a God concern matters of fact, and the agnostic will hold that they should be investigated in the same way as the question, “Will there be an eclipse of the moon tomorrow?” But matters of fact alone are not sufficient to determine action, since they do not tell us what ends we ought to pursue. In the realm of ends, we need something other than reason. The agnostic will find his ends in his own heart and not in an external command. Let us take an illustration: Suppose you wish to travel by train from New York to Chicago; you will use reason to discover when the trains run, and a person who though that there was some faculty of insight or intuition enabling him to dispense with the timetable would be thought rather silly. But no timetable will tell him that it is wise, he will have to take account of further matters of fact; but behind all the matters of fact, there will be the ends that he thinks fitting to pursue, and these, for an agnostic as for other men, belong to a realm which is not that of reason, though it should be in no degree contrary to it. The realm I mean is that of emotion and feeling and desire.
Do you regard all religions as forms of superstition or dogma? Which of the existing religions do you most respect, and why?
All the great organized religions that have dominated large populations have involved a greater or less amount of dogma, but “religion” is a word of which the meaning is not very definite. Confucianism, for instance, might be called a religion, although it involves no dogma. And in some forms of liberal Christianity, the element of dogma is reduced to a minimum.
Of the great religions of history, I prefer Buddhism, especially in its earliest forms, because it has had the smallest element of persecution.
Communism like agnosticism opposes religion, are agnostics Communists?
Communism does not oppose religion. It merely opposes the Christian religion, just as Mohammedanism does. Communism, at least in the form advocated by the Soviet Government and the Communist Party, is a new system of dogma of a peculiarly virulent and persecuting sort. Every genuine Agnostic must therefore be opposed to it.
Do agnostics think that science and religion are impossible to reconcile?
The answer turns upon what is meant by `religion’. If it means merely a system of ethics, it can be reconciled with science. If it means a system of dogma, regarded as unquestionably true, it is incompatible with the scientific spirit, which refuses to accept matters of fact without evidence, and also holds that complete certainty is hardly ever impossible.
What kind of evidence could convince you that God exists?
I think that if I heard a voice from the sky predicting all that was going to happen to me during the next twenty-four hours, including events that would have seemed highly improbable, and if all these events then produced to happen, I might perhaps be convinced at least of the existence of some superhuman intelligence. I can imagine other evidence of the same sort which might convince me, but so far as I know, no such evidence exists.
Agnostic
January 15th, 2010 at 3:27 pm
Really Doesn’t Matter:
Nobody here is attacking you. And you mean predators not prey, which we are obviously not. We can only show you the door, you are the one that has to go through it. We mean no malice, what we want is to help you understand that you have placed your faith on a mortal man with a very questionable lifestyle. In short, a church with broken foundation. We can post a million comments explaining a thousand different ways why LLDM is false but your faith is blind and you do not listen to reason. You just defend your beliefs with opinions and out-of-context Biblical verses… Which is typical of a LLDM fanatic. The conversation is going nowhere, therefore, I bid you farewell. You are a confused young man, when you reach maturity, come back with an open mind. We have all pointed out why LLDM is a farce, Biblically and historically, but you are entitled to believe whatever you want, even if all others know that your belief is misplaced. My only advice is that you do not have to believe in Samuel for salvation or to be a Christian. Study the scriptures and compare them to what your church teaches you. It is our hope that sooner or later the veil from your eyes is removed and can see and think for yourself. Do not be another blind follower. Godspeed and Godbless.
PS-LLDM introduces people to Christ and the Bible but does not center its teachings entirely on Christ. The apostle takes center stage, and that is not suppose to be. I know my words will not reach you, for you have a hard heart, but it is the plain truth.
January 15th, 2010 at 2:15 pm
BTW about “la historia”
Such book is a ABOMINATION. It Content is full of blasphemies, fantasy scenes of supposed “miracles” performed BY Eusebio joaquin, its contain also a very complete insult compendium against the Eusebio’s detractors, Contains also discrimination against catholic, evangelical people and even Eusebio’s followers themselves! (because Eusebio never got trust in ANYBODY). The book contains also the chronicle of the first Schism of LDM church, the so-called “Chemas” a Group of pastors who in 1942 performed a rebellion against Eusebio (Aaron) and finally they got apart and founded their sect by their own. Well the author of the “historia” who is Rene Rentería, writes after the chronicle about TWO whole pages OF INSULTS against the “Chemas”. He describes them as “traitors” “dead dogs” “stupid” “humane trash” and other awful insults.
Really I DO recommend to read the book, This because you’ll find evidence that LDM is NOT a Christian church.
January 15th, 2010 at 12:40 pm
Micael,
you say:
“If you are so interested in the history you have to start on rock bottom. There is a book la historia, read it for yourself, I have never read it,”
My question was where is the story found in Scripture? So, by your own words, Samuel Joaquin is preaching “la historia” in addition to Scripture. Is that what you call “Preaching the Word”, as was Paul’s charge to Timothy?
“I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book”(Revelation 22:18)
Nice of you to recommend I read something you yourself have no knowledge of though. Your own words testify against you, Micael. Shouldn’t you know what’s being preached in by the man you adore so much?
BTW, I speak Spanish very well, but thanks for another opinion (Proverbs 18:2).
El apostol Pablo en su carta a los Romanos dice, “Tú, pues, que enseñas a otro, ¿no te enseñas a ti mismo? Tú que predicas que no se ha de hurtar, ¿hurtas? Tú que dices que no se ha de adulterar, ¿adulteras? Tú que abominas de los ídolos, ¿cometes sacrilegio?” (Romanos 2:21-22). Uno de los grandes puntos que por años han predicado los de La Luz Del Mundo es el error de la Iglesia Catolica de tener al Papa como su maximo lider espiritual, al mismo tiempo que ellos mismos no toman su consejo. Samuel Joaquin, aunque no lo llamen de esta manera, es su “Papa”, y lo veneran aun mas que los Catolicos hacen con el Papa Romano. Si en verdad hicieran caso a sus propios consejos, y quisieran ser en verdad la luz para el mundo, deben de dejar ese falso grupo religioso y su falso maestro Samuel Joaquin, “¿Acaso puede un ciego guiar a otro ciego? ¿No caerán ambos en el hoyo?” (Lucas 6:39)
January 15th, 2010 at 7:42 am
SUM SAYS AGAIN:
I’m sure Oscar said that before he found out that the apostle is trying to sit in Christ throne which makes him an anti Christ. Every one has there own personal relation ship with Christ, you church is not going to save you only you can save your self. You pray to God in the name of Jesus Christ for forgiveness, or are you going to wait a whole year for the fake apostle to take them away for you. Did you not read the new testament. In the old testament there use to be a high priest that prayed once a year for God to take away the sins of man by sacrificing a lam. Now that Christ has died for us, this is biblical by the way, Jesus is now our only sacrifice he is that perfect sacrifice that died on the cross witch is suppose to be the lam, but know Jesus is our perfect high priest and that is why we pray in the name of Jesus Christ for forgiveness. You see it says in the bible that when the high priests were sacrificing the Lam once a year to ask for the forgiveness of all people it was not working because by one year when people sinned they would remember their sins all over again and that sin would never be erased. But now with Christ being our perfect sacrifice we do not have to look back at our sins and remember them they are forever forgiven.
Don’t worry the Apostle has a throne of himself, below Christ. 1 John 4:2
This is how we know if they have the Spirit of God: IF a person claiming to be a prophet acknowledges the Jesus Christ came in a real body, that person has the Spirit of God. 1 John 2:22
And who is a liar? Anyone who says that Jesus is not the Christ. Anyone who denies the Father and the Son is the antichrist. I’m sorry but the Apostle doesn’t deny the Father and the Son. However, you do, because you fail to be baptized in their name! The Apostle has never denied Jesus is not the Christ. AND I’m Sorry but this Prophet has never denied that Christ came in a real body, however; I think some of you don’t think he was a flesh. Also, THE APOSTLE DOES NOT TAKE THEM AWAY! Only God can take away sins. He prays for GOD to take away our sins. I have never heard him say, “I am taking all of your sins away! I have the power to take sins away!” He prays to God, and he knows when God has responded to him. He is Jesus Christ’s Apostle. AND I have given that one text, to what Jesus Christ has said.
I have said it, I am the real fool in here! 1 Timothy 6:20
Timothy, guard what God has entrusted to you. Avoid, godless, foolish discussions with those who oppose you with their so-called knowledge. I have fell into Paul’s category for fools. GOD FORGIVE ME!
January 15th, 2010 at 7:39 am
SUM YOU SAY:
I mentioned this before and I will repeat my self again. God wants us to be hot or cold not Luke warm. Its all about Christ and if you have to believe in the apostle then you are being Luke warm its ether hot or cold Jesus or the apostle. Good or bad. You can not worship the apostle and Jesus Christ.
I AM SORRY, but we do not worship the apostle. THAT IS COMPLETELY UNTRUE! I am telling you myself right now, and I interrogated my brothers in a congregation that I took today, “Who are we SINGING TO?! WHO ARE WE PRAYING TO? WHEN WE PRAY FOR THE APOSTLE< ARE WE PRAYING TO THE APOSTLE?!” My brothers answered, “WE ARE NOT PRAYING TO THE APOSLTE! WE ARE PRAYING FOR HIM! WE ARE WORSHIPINGGOD! THIS IS WHAT THE APOSTLE TEACHES US TO DO!” Another accusation…
wor•ship
wor•ship [wúrship]
v (past and past participle wor•shiped or wor•shipped, present participle wor•ship•ing or wor•ship•ping, 3rd person present singular wor•ships)
1. vti treat somebody or something as deity: to treat somebody or something as divine and show ‘respect by engaging in acts of prayer and devotion’
2. vi take part in religious service: to take part in a religious service
3. vt love somebody deeply: to love, admire, or respect somebody or something greatly and perhaps excessively or unquestioningly
n
1. religious adoration: the adoration, devotion, and respect given to a deity
2. religious rites: the rites or services through which people show their adoration, devotion, and respect for a deity
3. great devotion: great or excessive love, admiration, and respect felt for somebody or something
[ Old English weortscipe "condition of worth" < weorth "worth"]
-wor•ship•er, , n
Encarta ® World English Dictionary © & (P) 1998-2005 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
January 15th, 2010 at 7:39 am
“But what I am doing I will continue to do, so that I may cut off opportunity from those who desire an opportunity to be regarded just as we are in the matter in which they are boasting. For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. No wonder, for even satan disguises himself as an angel of light. Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve”(2 Corinthians 11:12-15)
For one thing, he does not BOAST AS YOU SAY!!! Therefore, the whole text invalidates the whole idea you are trying to pull on the Apostle. However, that text is right for many of you, and come boast your knowledge of him… You are definitely a deceitful worker, and you definitely disguise yourself as an apostle even when you wouldn’t admit it. I’m finally seeing the minds and works of your conscience. You don’t come here to help anyone, you are here to show your hatred, dislike, and share bad seeds with everyone willing to be plowed. GOD BLESS YOU!
a•pos•tle
a•pos•tle [ə póss'l]
(plural a•pos•tles)
n
1. promoter of idea or cause: somebody who tries to persuade others to share an idea or cause
January 15th, 2010 at 7:38 am
YOU SAY:
Professing Christians, nominal believers in the church follow their own desires and flock to preachers who offer them God’s blessings apart from His forgiveness, and His Salvation apart from their repentance. They want to be entertained by teachings that will produce pleasant sensations and leave them with good feelings about themselves. Their goal is that men preach “in accordance with their own desires.” In these conditions (similar to within LLDM), people will dictate what men preach, rather than God dictating it by His Word.
I can’t express in words, what you just said. I don’t know if it is COMPLETELY PATHETIC OR YOU HAVE OFFICIALY MADE ME CRAZY! What exactly do you think you are doing? Listen to yourself! And trust me, the Church doesn’t make us feel any sensation that is pleasant. The apostle doesn’t say anything that makes us feel good. Everything affects our flesh! He challenges our flesh all the time! Therefore, you can’t say that he gives us good feelings about ourselves. You are just being stupid now.
YOU SAY:
Micael, let me ask you – which is more important to you when evangelizing – telling people about the mercy of God through Christ, or telling people about the “authority” of “Apostle” Samuel Joaquin?
I am speechless by your comments & questions, because they are completely made without knowing. THE APOSTLE HIMSELF SAYS ALL THE TIME< HE WANTS TO BE ABLE TO EVANGELIZED THE WHOLE WORLD! HE WANTS EVERYONE TO TAKE THE ADVANTAGE OF THE PRIVILEGE GOD HAS GIVEN HIM! I WILL NOT RESPOND TO STUPID THINGS.
January 15th, 2010 at 7:38 am
COLIN SAYS:
“All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom, I give you this charge: Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction. For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. But you, keep your head in all situations, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, discharge all the duties of your ministry.”(2 Timothy 3:16-4:5)
Paul is writing to Timothy, not in order to train him to be an apostle who will replace him, but to be a God-fearing pastor. In this passage, he stresses the importance in preaching the true Word of God – the Holy Scriptures. (Where is the story of Samuel’s birthday celebration found in Scripture? It’s not there, so is he really preaching the Word of God?)
If you are so interested in the history you have to start on rock bottom. There is a book la historia, read it for yourself, I have never read it, I don’t know Spanish that well. (I’M WILLING TO BET THAT YOU KNOW SPANISH VERY WELL) But as soon as I gain a lot of free time, I will start tackling that book. AND I DON’T KNOW HOW MANY TIMES I HAVE TO SAY THIS!!! You truly don’t understand at all, that is why I call you a fool! I am telling you, it wasn’t anything planned! The holy suppers, do you hear the Apostle Boasting his birthday?! NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!! I have never heard him in my own entire life talk about himself and being born at the Santa Cena. He might of talked about God giving life on that day, but he doesn’t brag and boast about himself on that day. I didn’t even know it was as you call it ‘a birthday celebration’. IT is the SANTA CENA! And that is what is done! WE are reunited with Christ and his Covenant! I don’t know how to make you understand. You guys are trying to draw a picture way out of your league. You are not that great of an artist.
January 14th, 2010 at 9:42 pm
Oh, and I forgot to add – about baptism – the Bible never says baptism is a requirement for Salvation. Baptism is outwardly declaring your faith in Jesus Christ.
The Bible does not say baptism is a requirement for Salvation, but if you have Christ in your heart, you will want to be baptized to outwardly show the world where your heart is.
I challenged you before to find a verse where anyone baptizes (not gives the command, but actually baptizes) “in the name of Jesus Christ”.
I now issue this challenge: Find a Scripture verse where anyone says that you must be baptized in order to be saved.
January 14th, 2010 at 9:23 pm
I’m sorry, I must correct my last comment. When discussing Romans 3, Micael did say that he can’t boast, so I apologize for misreading.
I’m still interested in knowing which Bible version you are using though.
However, Micael, you do write “because I believe I am from the restoration of the primitive Church, I believe that I have been accepted and favor by God. Not a privilege that everyone receives. I could be rejecting his chosen one as you.”
Does believing something make it true, Micael? You can believe that Samuel Joaquin is God’s chosen one for salvation, but the Bible says that position belongs to Christ. You can believe as you like, but wouldn’t you want to base your belief on the totality of Scripture and not on the claims of a mortal man?
I’ve used this example before: I can believe that trees are not solid. But if I crash my car into a tree, will what I believe change what is true? I can believe that gravity does not effect me. Even if I believe this with all of my heart, will it be true if I walk off a cliff?
In the same way, you can believe Samuel is the one chosen for your Salvation; but the Bible says no, it’s Christ. Will what you believe change what the Bible says?
January 14th, 2010 at 9:06 pm
Really doesn’t matter(Micael),
I’m going to continue addressing the Scriptures you quote. Please look all supporting cross-references for yourself.
You quote 1 Corinthians 3:10-11
Here is the full passage
“Brothers, I could not address you as spiritual but as worldly—mere infants in Christ. I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready. You are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not worldly? Are you not acting like mere men? For when one says, “I follow Paul,” and another, “I follow Apollos,” are you not mere men?
What, after all, is Apollos? And what is Paul? Only servants, through whom you came to believe—as the Lord has assigned to each his task. I planted the seed, Apollos watered it, but God made it grow. So neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God, who makes things grow. The man who plants and the man who waters have one purpose, and each will be rewarded according to his own labor. For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building.
By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as an expert builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should be careful how he builds. For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.”(1 Corinthians 3:1-11)
When Paul says he laid a foundation as an expert builder, the Greek word used is the root of the english word “Architect”, but it contained the idea of a builder as well as a designer. Paul’s specialty was building spiritual foundations (Romans 15:20). Paul was used by God to establish the groundwork for churches in Asia Minor, Macedonia, and Greece. Others (such as Timothy and Apollos) built the churches up from his foundations. You can’t go back and lay a foundation again once it’s already done, it is only done one time. Paul also makes it very clear that he did not design the foundation, he only laid it down by preaching Christ. Christ is what made the foundation sure by being the chief cornerstone, and the apostles are a part of this foundation (Ephesians 2:20). Well, if the first foundation needed Jesus as the chief cornerstone to make it a sure foundation, and you say we have new apostles today – should we also expect a new Lamb of God to ensure it is a sure foundation he is laying? Absolutely not!
“For in Scripture it says:
“See, I lay a stone in Zion,
a chosen and precious cornerstone,
and the one who trusts in him
will never be put to shame.” Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe,
“The stone the builders rejected
has become the capstone,” and,
“A stone that causes men to stumble
and a rock that makes them fall.” They stumble because they disobey the message—which is also what they were destined for.”(1 Peter 2:6-8).
Next, you quote Hebrews 10:39.
But, here is a more complete passage:
“So do not throw away your confidence; it will be richly rewarded. You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised. For in just a very little while,
“He who is coming will come and will not delay.
But the righteous will live by faith.
And if he shrinks back,
I will not be pleased with him.” But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul.”(Hebrews 10:35-39).
You cannot give anything to prove that Samuel Joaquin is an apostle other than your own faith. Yes, the righteous will live by faith, but this is not the right faith to have. Faith has to do with who you are trusting in for your Salvation. Paul does not ask anyone to have faith in him, a mortal man, but only to have faith in Christ.
In this passage, the author of Hebrews (who many assume is Paul, myself included) reminds us about Jesus’ return – “He who is coming will come and will not delay.” Since we are closer than ever to the eternal reward, there is no time to turn back. He says “do not cast away your confidence,” speaking of the confidence we have from our outward identification with Christ. Who is your confidence in Micael? Is it in Christ, or in Samuel Joaquin? As Sum explained, it’s either one or the other, it cannot be both.
This passages us to trust Christ fully by living daily in the will of the Father. If anyone will remain with the New Covenant and put their trust exclusively in Christ, they will obtain the promise of Salvation for themselves. The writer makes loose references here to Habakkuk 2:3-4, introduced by a phrase taken from Isaiah 26:20. This is the 2nd reference to this passage from Isaiah in this chapter (see Hebrews 10:27), which is a song of salvation. The passage in Isaiah 26 (and it’s greater context Isaiah 24 – 27) perhaps is in the writer’s mind. The Habakkuk reference is altered considerably so that it is more of an interpretive paraphrase drawing on other Old Testament concepts and contexts. Habakkuk 2:4-5 describes the proud who do not live by faith. It is the proud who are self-sufficient and fail to realize the necessity of patient endurance and trust in God. The proud Jew will be rejected if he does not exercise faith. He will be judged along with the nations. Faith is the opposite of apostasy. As the writer here draws chapter 10 to a close, he previews chapter 11 of Hebrews which makes clear a very profound fact: It is faith which pleases God. The individual who draws back from the knowledge of the true gospel and faith in Christ alone will prove his apostasy. The writer expresses confidence that the believing reader (”we”) will not be counted among “those” who fall away to destruction. Apostates will draw back from Christ but there are some who are near to believing who can be pulled “out of the fire” (Jude 23). “Destruction”, also translated “perdition” is commonly used in the New Testament of the everlasting punishment or judgement of believers (Matthew 7:13; Romans 9:22; Philippians 1:28, 3:19; 1 Timothy 6:9). Judas is called “the son of perdition” (a semitism meaning “perdition bound”; John 17:12). The man of lawlessness is referred to as “the son of destruction”, (destruction bound) – 2 Thessalonians 2:3. Preservation from eschatological preservation is the concept of “preserving” in the context of verse 39. In the context of Isaiah 26:20-21 (Hebrews 10:19), the eschatological preservation includes resurrection from the dead. The writer later connects faith and resurrection in the example of Abraham (Hebrews 11:19).
You quote Romans 10:9-11
But you leave out some very important verses
“That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. As the Scripture says, “Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame.” For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”(Romans 10:9-13)
Are you a Jew or a Gentile Micael? It’s only one or the other, but there is no difference between the 2 – the Lord will richly bless all who call on Him (I know because I am a Gentile and have been richly blessed by the Lord).
But let me ask you, Micael, when Paul quotes Isaiah 28:16 – “Anyone who trust him will never be disgraced.”, who is the “him” the apostle Paul and the prophet Isaiah are both referring to?
you quote Hebrews 12:14 and Hebrews 12:25 disconnected.
But, here is the complete passage:
“Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord. See to it that no one misses the grace of God and that no bitter root grows up to cause trouble and defile many. See that no one is sexually immoral, or is godless like Esau, who for a single meal sold his inheritance rights as the oldest son. Afterward, as you know, when he wanted to inherit this blessing, he was rejected. He could bring about no change of mind, though he sought the blessing with tears.
You have not come to a mountain that can be touched and that is burning with fire; to darkness, gloom and storm; to a trumpet blast or to such a voice speaking words that those who heard it begged that no further word be spoken to them, because they could not bear what was commanded: “If even an animal touches the mountain, it must be stoned.” The sight was so terrifying that Moses said, “I am trembling with fear.”
But you have come to Mount Zion, to the heavenly Jerusalem, the city of the living God. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the judge of all men, to the spirits of righteous men made perfect, to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.
See to it that you do not refuse him who speaks. If they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, how much less will we, if we turn away from him who warns us from heaven? At that time his voice shook the earth, but now he has promised, “Once more I will shake not only the earth but also the heavens.” The words “once more” indicate the removing of what can be shaken—that is, created things—so that what cannot be shaken may remain.”(Hebrews 12:14-27)
In this epistle holiness (or “sanctification”) is explained as 1) a drawing near to God with full faith and a cleansed conscience (Hebrews 10:14-22). And 2) a genuine acceptance of Christ as the Only Savior and sacrifice for sin, bringing the sinner into fellowship with God. Unbelievers will not be drawn to accept Christ if believers’ lives do not demonstrate the qualities God desires, including peace and holiness (John 13:35; 1 Timothy 4:3; 1 Peter 1:16).
In the same way, Micael, how do you expect us to accept that Samuel Joaquin is an apostle if A – LLDM claims that anyone who speaks against him is speaking against God Himself, and B – he lives a life of pure luxury, with bodyguards, and extravagant palaces with exotic animals; those are 2 things the Biblical apostles never did, so how can you expect us to fall for that?
I like Christopher’s question: Who is the author declaring is the “ONE”? (you may want to look at all of Hebrews starting from chapter 1 for the answer).
you quote Romans 3:27-28.
But here is the complete passage:
“But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.
Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of observing the law? No, but on that of faith. For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law. Is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.”(Romans 3:21-31)
Which version of the Bible are you using, Micael? Your translation of verse 27-28: “Can we boast, then, that we have done anything to be accepted by God? No, because our acquittal is not based on obeying the law.”
Is not one that is found in the King James, New King James, New American Standard Translation, NIV, or the Reina Valera 1960 versions, so just for reference, which translation are you using?
All authorized versions read “Where then is boasting? It is excluded.” Even the translation you give says “Can we boast then…? NO”. How incredible that even after posting such a verse, you immediately after write: “Well, as an ex Gentile, I can’t boast…”. Even the Apostle Paul said that boasting is excluded, so what gives you the right to boast about anything? This comment of yours makes it clear that you are reading the Bible, but are only obeying what you think of it, not what it actually says.
Next, you quote Romans 8:17
But again, here is the complete passage:
“Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation—but it is not to the sinful nature, to live according to it. For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live, because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship. And by him we cry, “Abba, Father.” The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.”(Romans 8:12-17).
You think you are suffering, Micael? You have a roof over your head, and you are being educated for free at school. If you have read every post on this blog, you would know that I personally have suffered some very difficult things in my life that most people couldn’t even imagine. But even that pales in comparison when I look at the people in this world who are really suffering every day. You want to know about suffering? Come out to Friend’s Church in Long Beach on a sunday night, after 5pm, and help us out serving food (which we cook ourselves) to the homeless people in the community. Serve a plate of free food, which may be the only meal of the day, to an 8 year old who lives on the street with their parents, then try to tell me about your suffering. Or go down to skid row where you live and help out at a food pantry down there. Or go to Haiti, and help out the people who have been affected by the earthquake. If you honestly believe you are suffering, look around at the world at the people who are really suffering, who have no food or clothes. Remember them sleeping outside on the cold concrete when you lay your head on a soft pillow in your warm bed tonight and get a little perspective.
I will continue with the rest of your quotes later, but on a final note, I think it’s somewhat amusing that you call my exposition of Revelation “theoretical,” when it is only based on the literal Greek word meanings and groupings.
What was your theory on Revelation again? It’s all history? Then why can’t you tell me when the events in Revelation took place? Including:
hail and fire, mixed with blood hurled to the earth
1/3 of the earth burned up
1/3 of the trees burned up
all the green grass burned up.(Revelation 8:7)
a great mountain burning with fire thrown in the sea
1/3 of the sea turned to blood
1/3 of all sea life died
1/3 all ships destroyed(Revelation 8:8-9)
And of course, the resurrection and the 1,000 year reign of Christ (Revelation 20:4).
If you want to attack my exposition, then please first support your own theory: Give some historical reference as to when these events took place.
God’s blessings to all of you.
January 14th, 2010 at 5:49 pm
Really doesn’t matter(Micael), you say:
“Well, when you are baptized, you are forgiven for whatever sins you have committed from that point back. However, once we are baptized, and start to sin again, there isn’t a second baptism of water. You can’t just get baptized every single time that you want. A lot of us LLDM members get baptized in believing and confessing in Christ. However, if we believe in Christ we believe in his Apostle as well. What point would there be of getting baptized under the authority of God, if I did not believe in the authority of God? That is why the two other questions are asked. If you believe that he has been given authority to baptize us, you will get baptized as so. In the times of Jesus, there were many with the authority, it wasn’t necessary to be asked if they believed in the authority. Jesus was there himself to prove to all the authority. However, Apostle Samuel has been given the authority to baptize in the name of Jesus Christ, and if you don’t believe that? WHY WOULD YOU GET BAPTIZED UNDER THE AUTHORITY HE HAS BEEN GIVEN? You have to believe that he has been given that authority. Otherwise, the baptism would be meaningless.”
Well, first of all, it seems you are a little bit confused. The only kind of Salvation God offers is eternal Salvation. If you think you can lose it tomorrow, then it wasn’t really eternal was it? It’s some other kind, but it sure is not eternal, and it sure is not from God.
Secondly, you keep talking about some supposed authority that Samuel Joaquin has, but since you give no Bible references to support that, let me share with you one which proves that Samuel has no authority:
“Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”(Matthew 28:18-20)
If Jesus said that all authority in heaven and on earth was given to Him (Jesus), and Jesus is with us “always, even to the very end of the age”, then isn’t Samuel a usurper by claiming his own authority? The Biblical apostles never claimed their own authority, they always gave commands “in the name of Jesus Christ” – name meaning authority (in the authority of Jesus Christ).
Micael, if someone says “stop in the name of the law”, what part of “the law” is a name? Isn’t it because of the power and authority found in the law that a person would stop? Well, then don’t you see how “name” means “authority” in this case? Same goes for when the apostles gave commands to be baptized.
I challenge you to find a Scripture verse where someone was being baptized and the baptizer said “I baptize you in the name of Jesus Christ.”
If the Biblical Apostles all submitted to Christ’s authority, what makes you think they were not obeying Christ’s command and “baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit”??
Lastly, you completely avoided the issue of why this issue came up in the first place. You said it is a beautiful thing for Samuel to take the punishment for your sins.
Again, do you believe Samuel Joaquin is a perfect man who has never committed sin himself? And if you think it’s a good thing for Samuel to take the punishment for your sins, then how are you not saying that the punishment Christ suffered on the cross was not enough?
January 14th, 2010 at 5:30 pm
Very, very impressed with Agnostic! Will respond soon after digesting! And great job bringing scriptures Micael!
January 14th, 2010 at 3:16 pm
Dear “really doesn’t matter”,
I have to say that your posting (878) was one of the most Scripture cited testimonies for faith in Samuel Joaquin for salvation that I have ever had presented! And I mean this with truth sincerity.
Your listings are dead on for faith by grace as a gift from God to believe in the “One” He sent for salvation, the One and Only – Jesus Christ, as you even quoted from Paul’s letter to the Ephesians.
(Ephesians 2:7-9)
7in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast.
And with your citied of this Scripture verse.
“As the Scriptures tell us, “Anyone who trust him will never be disgraced.”
Which I believe is from the book of Isaiah.
(Isaiah 45:17)
17 But Israel will be saved by the LORD
with an everlasting salvation;
you will never be put to shame or disgraced,
to ages everlasting.
And to this I would like to add this verse from Paul’s letter to the Romans.
(Romans 15:13)
13May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace as you trust in him, so that you may overflow with hope by the power of the Holy Spirit.
Paul was always pointing to trusting and having faith in the One in whom he was appointed as a herald and as an apostle (messenger) for the gospel of salvation through Jesus Christ alone for our salvation, Amen.
I do have a few questions for you.
In your citing of this passage of Scripture from the book of Hebrews. Who is the author declaring is the “ONE”?
“(Hebrews 12:25)
Be careful that you do not refuse to listen to the ONE who is speaking. For if the people of Israel did not escape when they refused to listen to Moses, the earthly messenger, we will certainly not escape if we reject the One who speaks to us from heaven!”
To your following statement, I say AMEN!
“I exclaim WAKE UP! I understand that salvation is free. They remain faithful because God’s grace. Because of God’s kindness in choosing them they have remained faithful. And since it is through God’s kindness, it is not by their works. It is saying, that their favor of God wasn’t anything they pay for or have to pay. God found favor in them not because they did something for it. What does having favor mean? I means that because God has favored certain people, they are allowed to believe in what they believe in. They didn’t do anything to or for God for God to have given them that kindness that will save them if they remain faithful. WAKE UP! THE CHURCH IS NO LONGER PRESERVED! IT IS IN THE WORKING!”
There is NOTHING that we can do to add to the complete and perfect work of Jesus Christ on the Cross!
There is only one work that is required of us to do in order to receive the free gift of salvation as John the apostle of Jesus Christ recorded for us in his book the Gospel of John.
(John 6:27-29)
27Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. On him God the Father has placed his seal of approval.”
28Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”
29Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”
Here Jesus is speaking of himself as “the one he has sent” with us having just one work – to believe in Him.
Again I want to say Amen to your next statement!
“Apostle Paul saying he wants to save some of his own people? Is it not Jesus Christ’s that saves us? Of Course, Jesus Christ died for our salvation.”
Paul was telling the Corinthians to just look to Jesus Christ and not him for their salvation as well as anyone else’s salvation.
(1 Corinthians 1:12-17)
12What I mean is this: One of you says, “I follow Paul”; another, “I follow Apollos”; another, “I follow Cephas”; still another, “I follow Christ.”
13Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized into the name of Paul? 14I am thankful that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15so no one can say that you were baptized into my name. 16(Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I don’t remember if I baptized anyone else.)
17For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.”
Paul declared to all that his only mission was to “preach the gospel” – Jesus Christ.
Which I have listed a number of Scripture passage from the apostle Paul stating very clearly what gospel he is preaching. I will not repost them here other than to list the verses for reference.
Titus 2:11-14
Titus 3:4-7
2 Timothy 1:8-10
1 Timothy 2:3-7
Colossians 1:13-23
In this statement you ask a question. Maybe it was just a rhetorical question, but none-the-less I would like to answer it.
“Now, Paul said this, because he was sent and chosen to save all those wanted to be saved. Jesus died for our salvation. Therefore, he sent Paul to save, after all he paid the price to do it. In reality, Jesus himself is the one saving us, because he is the one sending for our salvation. He sent Paul to save. OR NOT? Well, I believe that Jesus Christ has sent Apostle Samuel to save as well, now is the time for salvation!”
No. Jesus Christ did not appoint Paul, nor any of the other apostles, to be the power by which salvation goes out to the world, that is the work of the Gospel. It was not by the measure of their lives on the Earth that determined the “time for salvation”.
The time for salvation has been with us since the death and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ with the shedding of His perfect blood for the forgiveness of sins which leads to the free gift of grace from the Father in heaven.
(Hebrews 6:19-20)
“19We have this hope as an anchor for the soul, firm and secure. It enters the inner sanctuary behind the curtain, 20where Jesus, who went before us, has entered on our behalf. He has become a high priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek.”
In Paul’s letter to the Corinthians (2 Cor 6:2) he is not declaring that it is because of him (nor anyone else) that the “time for salvation” is now. Paul is not making this statement from himself:
(2 Corinthians 6:2)
2For he says, “In the time of my favor I heard you, and in the day of salvation I helped you.”
I tell you, now is the time of God’s favor, now is the day of salvation.”
Paul is quoting the prophet Isaiah.
(Isaiah 49:8)
8 This is what the LORD says:
“In the time of my favor I will answer you,
and in the day of salvation I will help you;
I will keep you and will make you
to be a covenant for the people,
to restore the land
and to reassign its desolate inheritances,
Paul is quoting Isaiah here because there where some with in the church of Corinth those were teaching another message and that the message that he brought to them was a message of salvation that is now and forever because of Jesus Christ.
Paul was stressing to them that “the time of my (God’s) favor…” is “Now”! And not because of himself, but because of the blood of Jesus Christ which is still, to this very day and has been for the past 2000 years, cleansing us of our past, present and future sins.
I think that your statement is a statement of faith for you in Samuel Joaquin.
“The Apostle has done a work in my life that is amazing. I can’t express it in words how I feel about him. I don’t want to imagine what my life what would be like right now if it were not for his work. You know what is amazing, he did all without even getting to know me personally. That is the beauty of the messengers. HE IS CERTAINLY AN APOSTLE TO ME!”
With all sincerity in my heart for Jesus Christ, I would like to offer my statement of faith in the Lord Jesus Christ as being the only perfector of my salvation.
The first two years of my time with LLDM I came to the point of convincing myself that what was being taught made sense. So in 2006 I was baptized into the church of LLDM and answered the very questions that I posted to included the last two regarding the authority of Samuel.
But by the grace of God the Father, the Holy Spirit had not given up on me even though I had unknowingly placed my trust in some else other than Jesus Christ. Very shortly after being baptized I started to have a very strong urge to document everything that I heard during Sunday school services as well as the Scriptures being offered to support the study, and study them at home and by myself.
At first I would just read the verses cited in service and read the notes that I took down from listening to the pastor and things made sense to me what I had been taught by LLDM pastors and members.
With in months of doing this regularly I began to not just read what was cited, but read the verses before and after the ones that had been cited in the services. As I read more verses I began to have unsettling questions started to pop out at me about the doctrine and teachings of LLDM.
I would take these questions to the pastor and/or to other members. Right away I started to see a noticeable uneasiness with them toward me. To the point that I was told by the current pastor at the time to stop studying my Bible on my own! Well needless to say this got my hairs up. But I decided to keep my cool and just continued attending and taking notes and most importantly I was now convicted to read the entire Bible for the first time in my life calling on the name of Jesus Christ and the power of the Holy Spirit to teach me.
After doing so a very clear pattern emerged from the Holy Scriptures. The Holy Spirit through the apostles was, and is, always pointing to Jesus Christ as the sole power for our salvation and grace. I did not find one single verse, passage or book from the apostles that declared that they are the “time for salvation”. The time for God favor is now and has been for the past 2000 years it never has left nor will it ever leave us.
You posted this passage –
(Ephesians 3:3-5)
As I briefly wrote earlier, God himself revealed his mysterious plan to me. As you read what I have written, you will understand my insight into this plan regarding Christ. God did not reveal it to previous generations, but now by his Spirit he has revealed it to his holy apostles and prophets.
But you did not finish out Paul’s whole point. What is the mystery?
Ephesians 3:6
“6This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.”
The mystery has been revealed for the past 2000 years. Aaron, Samuel nor any other self proclaimed apostles can add to the completeness of this mystery. Paul, Peter, John, James, Matthew, Mark, Luke all declare the completeness of Jesus Christ.
Even LLDM declares this with one the questions at baptism – “Do you believe that the Holy Bible is all sufficient for salvation?” with the following Scripture passage cited. (2 Timothy 3:15-17).
Very thing that you need for salvation is already in your hand. And just because you may have heard these words from a person such as Samuel first before reading them does not any way declare them the power for righteousness.
When a king sends to messenger (apostle) with a message of peace to another land is it the message or the messenger that has the power to bring about peace between to kingdoms? It is the message from the rightful king. The only thing that the messenger has to prove is that he is truly an appointed messenger (apostle) from the king that he represents. So that the receiving king can true that the message is genuine message of peace. Once the messenger (apostle) is accepted and the message is received his job is finished.
With all love and sincerely in the Lord Jesus Christ,
From a “FOOL” for Jesus Christ forever.
January 14th, 2010 at 3:15 pm
And Yes, he can made up a new bible If he wish, this because his ignorant membership would allow to him do it. Samuelita Theology establishes that Samuel joaquin receives new revelations from God himself in anytime. For lldm members, the bible is only “a record book” about God. POWERLESS WITHOUT the Servant of God, Samuel Joaquin. This means that lldm members already have got a new intercessor between God and mankind, Jesus Christ is not enough for them. They claims that Samuel Joaquin INTERCEDES for all living beings and If we are ALL alive, its because “his mighty” intercession. WHAT A CRAZY ESTABLISHMENT, ISN’T?
Such doctrine, that “samuel talks with God” is only SPIRITISM. Lunatic establishment, isn’t?
January 14th, 2010 at 3:05 pm
Don’t stress, I have copied all of your comments, and will work on the response on home. I am for your own personal benefit going to sleep late.
GOD BLESS YOU ALL
January 14th, 2010 at 2:59 pm
JAJAJAJAJA Let me laugh at you, “really doesn’t matter” Yes, I sound lunatic, pathetic and CRAZY Do you know why? YES! Because I’m only telling you the True doctrine of Luz del Mundo. What sounds lunatic, pathetic and CRAZY is your Doctrine, the Samuel Joaquin’s Doctrine, Not me.
JAJAJA Don’t you know the meaning of “Samuelita”? isn’t? jajaja Well the meaning is: Samuel Joaquin’s followers. Do you understand now?
Understand this: I’m attending to a lldm church, and I HAVE BEEN A WITNESS of “the Nicknames” which lldm members (Samuelitas) call to Samuel Joaquin. They call him “King” “The most beautiful man” and “THE ISRAEL’S SAINT” All these as part of the liturgical cult!!! I was there, so you can’t deceive to me. Also ministers claims about the perfection, holiness of the “servant of God” HE IS PERFECT, as a matter of fact SAMUEL JOAQUIN HIMSELF had claimed being himself: “The sacred vessel, the Holy altar which all thing that it touch, is sanctified” This Because the Awful Samuelita Theology establish that Christ lives inside the body of “apostle” Samuel Joaquin. These are ABOMINABLE, CRAZY, PATHETIC AND LUNATIC claims. Right, my dear “doesn’t really matter”?.
That’s the why I call them as no-Christians, because you worship to a simple man instead of the Lord.